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DavidW

General Motors buses (including GM Canada)

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I looked for a GM discussion thread but didn't find one.

Can anyone help me identify which specific model this bus might be?

winnipeg-Metro133gmol-cox1966.thumb.jpg.9a6ee01a04b8602f9ead95563016071d.jpg

This Peter Cox photo is dated 1966 and features Metro [Winnipeg] Transit #133, a General Motors product of the "old look" category. It's a shorty version, with no exit door and about nine windows on the curb side. Which GM model is this bus likely to be?

My All-time Winnipeg Fleet Roster doesn't seem to include a GM built #133 although there's an incomplete 1939 entry for six model TG2401 buses (fleet numbers unknown). It a bit of a stretch to think a 1939 bus purchase might still be operating in 1966 at age 27. What length (or how many side windows) would a TG2401 have?

 

 

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2 hours ago, DavidW said:

I looked for a GM discussion thread but didn't find one.

Can anyone help me identify which specific model this bus might be?

winnipeg-Metro133gmol-cox1966.thumb.jpg.9a6ee01a04b8602f9ead95563016071d.jpg

This Peter Cox photo is dated 1966 and features Metro [Winnipeg] Transit #133, a General Motors product of the "old look" category. It's a shorty version, with no exit door and about nine windows on the curb side. Which GM model is this bus likely to be?

My All-time Winnipeg Fleet Roster doesn't seem to include a GM built #133 although there's an incomplete 1939 entry for six model TG2401 buses (fleet numbers unknown). It a bit of a stretch to think a 1939 bus purchase might still be operating in 1966 at age 27. What length (or how many side windows) would a TG2401 have?

A TG2401 it is not. A good image of one appears on this page: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/y/yellow_coach/yellow_coach3.htm

I'd hazard a guess it is a TGH-3102 ex White Ribbon
From OMOT's production rosters: 

0371-0372 - GMDD/White Ribbon Bus Lines (Winnipeg MB) 30-31 09/54

I have in my collection a photo from Peter Cox of a White Ribbon Bus Lines TDH-5301 that became Winnipeg Transit. Off the top of my head I believe it ended up in the 1XX series with Winnipeg Transit, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were others that ended up in the Winnipeg fleet from White Ribbon.

 

 

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Thanks!

And now I see that Peter's photo of Winnipeg #133 is used as the reference illustration of a TGH3102 on the CPTdb Wiki page... 😀

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Look what I found in the Wayback Machine!

The Ohio Museum of Transportation used to have GM Engineering Standards on their website, but they disappeared after the site was hacked and have never reappeared.  Well, the Wayback Machine captured the lost pages and I am able to post the links below:

Overview:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020306205958/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/index.html

Both Old Look and New Look Transit and Suburban models:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020306205958/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/ts2000.html (Lost)

http://web.archive.org/web/20020313210338/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/ts3000.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20020313210611/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/ts4000.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20020313211557/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/ts5000.html

GM Parlor Coaches

http://web.archive.org/web/20020501142157/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/p2000.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20020313205108/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/p3000.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20020313205108/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/p4000.html (Lost)

Early Yellow Coaches (Pre-1939 700 series)

http://web.archive.org/web/20020318010610/http://www.omot.org/roster/engstand/yc700.html

These lists include never-produced models such as the TDHX-4301 (a special export version of the TDH-4512 with a wide exit door), the T6H-4520 (a wide-body version of the T6H-4521), and the TDH-4802 (a 37-foot-long New Look for California, only available without A/C).

Enjoy!

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Might be a long shot, but would anyone happen to have any diagrams of GM/MCI/Nova Classics (sans wheelchair lift) in their possession, or know of a site where such a thing might be found? A cursory google search has found me a GM New Look diagram (very helpful) but nothing on the Classics.

I know that the late generation Classics that were built with lifts had taller doors than the early, inaccessible ones, and I would like to find out what height the shorter doors were, if at all possible. The New Look diagram indicates that their front doors would've been in the neighbourhood of ~2045 mm high, so I presume the early Classics were less than that.

Thanks in advance.

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Apologies for the double post, but thanks to a very helpful individual on Facebook, I have come by precisely what I was looking for, and thought therefore that I should share it with everyone else.

1980 GM Classic Bus Brochure 1980 GM Classic Bus Brochure

 

The height of the front door is given as 79-7/8" inches, or around 2028 mm, slightly shorter than the New look. Was there an actual reason for adding the extra headroom to the lift equipped Classics, or was it just a matter of "there's space here, so let's extend the door as far as we can"?

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If you’re standing on the lift platform In the raised position assisting a wheelchair Through the doorway, a few extra inches of headroom is an asset.

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On 1/29/2020 at 4:43 PM, Bus_Medic said:

If you’re standing on the lift platform In the raised position assisting a wheelchair Through the doorway, a few extra inches of headroom is an asset.

I have no doubt.

That considered, it looks like the 'higher' door measurement didn't arrive until, what... 1996? Which allowed all of two years of Classic production with that option.

There were plenty of lift-equipped Classics built with the original door height; as you suggest, they must have learned the hard way that it was a tight fit!

I know Port Authority (Pittsburgh) went for the raised door height on their '96 Classics. If I'm not mistaken, the very first bus of that order (2600) had a regular-height front door while the others (2601-2770) has the raised clearance. Any idea of other Classic orders that took the high road?

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11 hours ago, Border City Transit said:

Any idea of other Classic orders that took the high road?

I took photos of Nova Classics in Rochester and Buffalo, and there are photos online of Classics for CT Transit, Pace and Santa Monica Big Blue Bus, all with the tall front door.

RTS619.jpg

NFTA9623.jpg

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