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Orion VI

TTC Electric Buses Orders and Deployments

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8 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

It gets better.  In the next paragraph they say that, "Hybrid electric buses use an electric motor that is charged by a combination of an on-board diesel engine and regenerative braking," as if the electric motor is an energy storage system.  They correct themselves in the next sentence when they mention the battery.  The whole thing reads as if the Urban Toronto people lifted the graphics, which, true, they are at least attributing as "Courtesy of TTC", out of the TTC green bus report that came out a year ago or the updated presentation that was released back in the summer and are trying to paraphrase the text without fully understanding what they were reading.  Each section they cover has errors in it that were not present in the TTC original.

The absolute best eye-roller in the whole thing to me is where they repeatedly talk about how the bus charging systems convert DC to AC to charge the buses except for the BYD where they claim the DC to AC conversion occurs on the bus.  Apart from getting the direction of the power conversion completely wrong, and clearly nobody at Urban Toronto checked what they were writing against the original TTC reports they were plagiarizing which are correct and noticed the difference or understands that batteries work on direct current and not AC, there's nothing wrong with what they wrote about electric bus charging.

So yes, it's informative.  About the skill level of the authors or lack thereof, more than anything.  I'll be generous and say that it isn't as vacuous as BlogTO and the "This week's 10 Most Impressive Douchebag Condos on the 6 Bay Bus in Toronto" garbage they publish for millennials that are being heavily subsidized by the Bank of Mom & Dad.

BAHAHA I noticed that too.

 

"I'll be generous and say that it isn't as vacuous as BlogTO and the "This week's 10 Most Impressive Douchebag Condos on the 6 Bay Bus in Toronto" garbage they publish for millennials that are being heavily subsidized by the Bank of Mom & Dad."

I'm dead. :lol:

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On 11/28/2018 at 11:35 PM, Wayside Observer said:

It gets better.  In the next paragraph they say that, "Hybrid electric buses use an electric motor that is charged by a combination of an on-board diesel engine and regenerative braking," as if the electric motor is an energy storage system.  They correct themselves in the next sentence when they mention the battery.  The whole thing reads as if the Urban Toronto people lifted the graphics, which, true, they are at least attributing as "Courtesy of TTC", out of the TTC green bus report that came out a year ago or the updated presentation that was released back in the summer and are trying to paraphrase the text without fully understanding what they were reading.  Each section they cover has errors in it that were not present in the TTC original.

The absolute best eye-roller in the whole thing to me is where they repeatedly talk about how the bus charging systems convert DC to AC to charge the buses except for the BYD where they claim the DC to AC conversion occurs on the bus.  Apart from getting the direction of the power conversion completely wrong, and clearly nobody at Urban Toronto checked what they were writing against the original TTC reports they were plagiarizing which are correct and noticed the difference or understands that batteries work on direct current and not AC, there's nothing wrong with what they wrote about electric bus charging.

So yes, it's informative.  About the skill level of the authors or lack thereof, more than anything.  I'll be generous and say that it isn't as vacuous as BlogTO and the "This week's 10 Most Impressive Douchebag Condos on the 6 Bay Bus in Toronto" garbage they publish for millennials that are being heavily subsidized by the Bank of Mom & Dad.

I hope you will consider contacting the reporter and editor for this story to set them straight. They need to know when they get it wrong.

And its important that electric buses are well understood.

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On 11/28/2018 at 10:51 PM, ADB said:

The TTC has the hybrid batches broken down as follows:

3400-3454: 55 buses (3400 is the pilot bus)

3455-3569: 115 buses

3570-3654: 85 buses

Total: 255 hybrid buses from 2018-2019. In all likelihood, they will all be delivered concurrently.

Isn't the pilot bus 3411? It was the first one delivered to the TTC and I haven't seen 3400 on property as yet.

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18 hours ago, Shemar said:

Isn't the pilot bus 3411? It was the first one delivered to the TTC and I haven't seen 3400 on property as yet.

The internal listing I saw showed 3400 as the pilot bus. Of course that could have changed since then or 3400 may still be with Nova for development purposes.

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Any idea of when these buses might start making regular service runs? John Tory said they should start like 2 weeks ago. Bet if you asked him anything about the TTC he wouldn't know.

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1 hour ago, Orion VI said:

Any idea of when these buses might start making regular service runs? John Tory said they should start like 2 weeks ago. Bet if you asked him anything about the TTC he wouldn't know.

People who get paid more than I do hand him a script so if it's wrong, it would be the mayor's problem. We all knew that plan wasn't realistic the second those words came out of his mouth.

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5 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

Is this Proterra's first Canadian order? I don't recall hearing anyone else placing one outside of the states.

It is their first, but not their only since an order came in from ETS of Edmonton shortly afterwards. Edmonton's order however is the first Canadian order of fast-charging buses, as the TTC's order lacks this feature as charging will be done entirely at garages.

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46 minutes ago, Chris.A said:

Is this Proterra's first Canadian order? I don't recall hearing anyone else placing one outside of the states.

Basic Google search would have answered that.

22 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

He’s just working up to dismissing it as idiot’s folly again anyway.

Yeah, seriously...

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59 minutes ago, Transit geek said:

Edmonton's order however is the first Canadian order of fast-charging buses, as the TTC's order lacks this feature as charging will be done entirely at garages.

False. Edmonton's order is depot charging also, but unless something changed during negotiations, it will be overhead charging. I gather the TTC's will be plug in charging.

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1 hour ago, M. Parsons said:

False. Edmonton's order is depot charging also, but unless something changed during negotiations, it will be overhead charging. I gather the TTC's will be plug in charging.

TTC is opting for both plug-in and on street charging

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12 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

TTC is opting for both plug-in and on street charging

Did they? None of their publicly-accessible reports indicate that.

 

Dan

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On 11/28/2018 at 10:39 PM, Orion V said:

Why do all the media say TTC will get 55 hybrids this year with 200 more in 2019 but the CPTDB wiki indicates only 170 hybrids for this order? Was something changed and the wiki is not updated?

Also find it amusing they only praise the advantages of these 2nd gen hybrids without telling the public of the problems the 1st gen hybrids have and why many are early retired now.

The first gem hybrids look like a regular Orion VII with a hump on the top that says hybrid electric and are numbered in the 1000s and 1100s 

 

the 2nd gen hybrids are the more sleek looking ones and are the ones having all the promblems and are numbered from 1200 to1899  

pictures aren’t mine took off google

213E0FEE-227A-48BC-91ED-D3511D08E918.png

09A3F167-125D-483F-939B-5FF222997A53.png

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24 minutes ago, TTC 7300 series said:

The first gem hybrids look like a regular Orion VII with a hump on the top that says hybrid electric and are numbered in the 1000s and 1100s 

 

the 2nd gen hybrids are the more sleek looking ones and are the ones having all the promblems and are numbered from 1200 to1899  

pictures aren’t mine took off google

Incorrect. Both versions of the Orion VII are using generally the same powertrains and hybrid technology, just with the frame having different endcaps. In the current discussion, they are both using "first-generation" technology that was part of the first wide adoption.

Hybrid technology has changed significantly in the 9+ years since the TTC last ordered hybrid buses, and the new systems are very different from the original system adopted by the TTC from 2006-2009. This is why the new hybrid Nova buses are being referred to as "second-generation" hybrids.

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On 12/26/2018 at 6:45 PM, TTC 7300 series said:

The first gem hybrids look like a regular Orion VII with a hump on the top that says hybrid electric and are numbered in the 1000s and 1100s 

 

the 2nd gen hybrids are the more sleek looking ones and are the ones having all the promblems and are numbered from 1200 to1899  

pictures aren’t mine took off google

213E0FEE-227A-48BC-91ED-D3511D08E918.png

09A3F167-125D-483F-939B-5FF222997A53.png

God that's vague, and it's wrong. Read this post: (We call the boxy-looking ones OGs and the other ones NGs)

 

On 12/26/2018 at 7:17 PM, Articulated said:

Incorrect. Both versions of the Orion VII are using generally the same powertrains and hybrid technology, just with the frame having different endcaps. In the current discussion, they are both using "first-generation" technology that was part of the first wide adoption.

Hybrid technology has changed significantly in the 9+ years since the TTC last ordered hybrid buses, and the new systems are very different from the original system adopted by the TTC from 2006-2009. This is why the new hybrid Nova buses are being referred to as "second-generation" hybrids.

Eh, the OG HEV does have some different components than the NG, but mostly the same. You could argue why the NGs are always breaking down but the OGs aren't. (smaller fleet size could be to blame). The body dimensions on the OG are a bit different, so maybe some minor mechanical change. Plus, they sound different. (could be the shape of the rear-facing grills). 

 

VI

 

P.S. 1001 just went by my house on the 14, and it sounds amazing!

Also, may be a bit biased because I LOVE the OG HEVS, they don't get enough love. I'm only a foamer for these ones.

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31 minutes ago, Doppelkupplung said:

They sound different because of the rear facing grills????

Isn't the big technical difference between the OGs and the NGs that the NGs have EPA2007 compliant engines and the OGs don't?

(Similarly, the second batch of NG diesels would get another rear grille redesign because of the EPA2010 engines.)

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On 12/31/2018 at 6:32 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

They sound different because of the rear facing grills????

Yeah, isn't that obvious? the sound emits from that general location in the bus, and the shape of the grill is important to how the sound actually travels through it. The sound could bouncing of the middle separator in the OG vent than the uni-grill NG. Sound tarvel in waves, and some can be reflected or absorbed by extra matter. The difference wouldn't be veryyyyy big, but you could notice it.  Image result for ttc orion vii hev<----- OG (notice the middle piece and size, also the grill consists of three pieces)Related imageNotice how the grill is one piece, making the sound waves have no obstructions.

1 hour ago, TTC Guy said:

So when will the first buses be delivered and from which company?

That info is not clear yet, but I think they might start arriving next month, but won't be in active service for at least 2-3 months. Manufacturing dates are unclear, but my bet is NFI.

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3 hours ago, TTC Guy said:

So when will the first buses be delivered and from which company?

According to the latest CEO report: BYD was supposed to deliver their buses at the end of 2018. Delays have pushed it to March 2019. New Flyer should deliver theirs around the same time. Proterra should deliver theirs later in 2019.

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