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TTC Electric Buses Orders and Deployments

Orion VI

By Orion VI
in Greater Toronto Area

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Doppelkupplung

Doppelkupplung

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Orion VI said:

Don't really know if this would work but, you know how MTA has Highway Coaches in operation (D4500, X3-45 and they just demoed a J4500), right? Couldn't the TTC do this, and use them as express route buses, and use the electric buses from normal routes? (the highway coaches would be diesel)

Er...what's GO lol

Do you know what the upfront and long term cost difference is between a 40 foot diesel and a 45 foot commuter coach?

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Orion VI

Orion VI

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1 minute ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Er...what's GO lol

Do you know what the upfront and long term cost difference is between a 40 foot diesel and a 45 foot commuter coach? Its big.

What could work in this situation then is the TTC could transfer all express routes to GO. Is that what you're saying? 

 

BTW I don't really think having a 100% Battery Electric fleet is that realistic. I know the technology will obviously improve before this happens, but just going on the Highway (I sometimes see buses doing this on the 401 and the Allen) could severely deplete the bus's charge. As we've said. Why doesn't the TTC use the chargers that comedown from a pole: https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+bus&rlz=1C1GCEB_enCA765CA766&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDh43177HgAhVHQ6wKHe2PBgEQ_AUIDigB&biw=1440&bih=819#imgrc=RHQyxyLJwXKUCM:  

 

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Bus_Medic

Bus_Medic

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You guys are worrying about the minutiae of a deadline 20 years from now?  In 1999, battery electric anything wasn’t anything more than a novelty.

Let the universe work itself out. There are pressing issues in the present that need more attention.

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Doppelkupplung

Doppelkupplung

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6 minutes ago, Orion VI said:

What could work in this situation then is the TTC could transfer all express routes to GO. Is that what you're saying? 

So you're saying the 935 Jane Express should now be run by 45 foot, highfloor single-exit MCIs? Not to mention the difficulty of on/offloading handicap persons?

Look dude, wherever you're going with this express thing, its not gonna happen. Diesel buses will be needed in capacity for many routes until electric buses are more advanced and more reliable. So expect to see them for the forseeable future. 

1 minute ago, Bus_Medic said:

You guys are worrying about the minutiae of a deadline 20 years from now?  In 1999, battery electric anything wasn’t anything more than a novelty.

Let the universe work itself out. There are pressing issues in the present that need more attention.

this

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NoUse4AName

NoUse4AName

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17 minutes ago, Doppelkupplung said:

So you're saying the 935 Jane Express should now be run by 45 foot, highfloor single-exit MCIs? Not to mention the difficulty of on/offloading handicap persons?

Look dude, wherever you're going with this express thing, its not gonna happen. Diesel buses will be needed in capacity for many routes until electric buses are more advanced and more reliable. So expect to see them for the forseeable future. 

this

the thread is at Page 4, I think is obvious Orion VI is just trolling along like a trolly troll 

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smallspy

smallspy

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18 hours ago, Orion VI said:

Why doesn't the TTC use the chargers that comedown from a pole: https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+bus&rlz=1C1GCEB_enCA765CA766&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDh43177HgAhVHQ6wKHe2PBgEQ_AUIDigB&biw=1440&bih=819#imgrc=RHQyxyLJwXKUCM: 

We covered this a while ago. The TTC doesn't want to have buses that are tied to infrastructure that will force the design of routes. Those chargers go at the ends of each route (and sometimes mid-route, too). What if the route needs to be changed? That infrastructure now needs to be uprooted and moved.


Dan

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MK78

MK78

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4 hours ago, smallspy said:

We covered this a while ago. The TTC doesn't want to have buses that are tied to infrastructure that will force the design of routes. Those chargers go at the ends of each route (and sometimes mid-route, too). What if the route needs to be changed? That infrastructure now needs to be uprooted and moved.

It wouldn't hurt them if they had some sort of charging at the main bus stations, for top-ups. Don't all TTC bus routes end up connecting to a Subway/RT station?

I just don't see the city the size of Toronto being reliably served with pure electric buses, not without a major breakthru in battery technology or charging stations.

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smallspy

smallspy

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4 minutes ago, MK78 said:

It wouldn't hurt them if they had some sort of charging at the main bus stations, for top-ups. Don't all TTC bus routes end up connecting to a Subway/RT station?

 

Most routes do, but not all. Plus, there's the issue of range, as the types of battery vehicles designed to be charged frequently may not have enough range to complete round trips on some of the longer routes - especially once you factor in things like any detours that may be necessary.

 

If you have a vehicle that is designed to operate for a "day" of service, there is no restriction to what routes it could do as there is no hardware that they need to use outside of the garage. Any restrictions have to do with battery usage and how long they are able to run for that "day".

 

4 minutes ago, MK78 said:

I just don't see the city the size of Toronto being reliably served with pure electric buses, not without a major breakthru in battery technology or charging stations.

And yet, a city far, far bigger than ours is served by a fleet of electric buses only.....

 

Try and be a little bit less closed-minded. The technology is improving, and is already being used elsewhere. It will happen here someday, too.

 

Dan

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MK78

MK78

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43 minutes ago, smallspy said:

 

Most routes do, but not all. Plus, there's the issue of range, as the types of battery vehicles designed to be charged frequently may not have enough range to complete round trips on some of the longer routes - especially once you factor in things like any detours that may be necessary.

 

If you have a vehicle that is designed to operate for a "day" of service, there is no restriction to what routes it could do as there is no hardware that they need to use outside of the garage. Any restrictions have to do with battery usage and how long they are able to run for that "day".

 

And yet, a city far, far bigger than ours is served by a fleet of electric buses only.....

 

Try and be a little bit less closed-minded. The technology is improving, and is already being used elsewhere. It will happen here someday, too.

 

Dan

What city is that? Is it cold climate?

I googled and I assume you mean Shenzhen, China. Well, the climate there is quite warm, with average lows in their "winter" of 12C. So yeah.

And who's gonna complain in China about the range? Off with their heads! :)

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Someguy3071

Someguy3071

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On 2/10/2019 at 2:04 PM, Orion VI said:

Don't really know if this would work but, you know how MTA has Highway Coaches in operation (D4500, X3-45 and they just demoed a J4500), right? Couldn't the TTC do this, and use them as express route buses, and use the electric buses from normal routes? (the highway coaches would be diesel)

This would only work on the airport Express route. 

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Kobayashi

Kobayashi

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So I guess sayanora BYD and Proterra?

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/toronto-orders-an-additional-10-new-flyer-battery-electric-transit-buses-858120135.html?fbclid=IwAR2dwLD4uKL-2aFQeXLaJlVk07ApkKMOByEfBzBdLaUj3IZuJaOKpAlHgq4https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/toronto-orders-an-additional-10-new-flyer-battery-electric-transit-buses-858120135.html?fbclid=IwAR2dwLD4uKL-2aFQeXLaJlVk07ApkKMOByEfBzBdLaUj3IZuJaOKpAlHgq4

 

Quote

Toronto orders an additional 10 New Flyer battery-electric transit buses

NEWS PROVIDED BY

NFI Group Inc. 

Feb 19, 2019, 07:50 ET

WINNIPEG, Feb. 19, 2019 /CNW/ - (TSX: NFI) New Flyer Industries Canada ULC ("New Flyer"), the Canadian subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. ("NFI"), the largest bus manufacturer in North America, today announced an award from the Toronto Transit Commission ("TTC") for an additional ten forty-foot, zero-emission, battery-electric Xcelsior CHARGE™ heavy-duty transit buses.

This award follows on the original TTC order from New Flyer in June 2018 for ten battery-electric Xcelsior CHARGE™ buses, and increases TTC's total order to 20 vehicles. The original contract was TTC's first transit bus order from New Flyer since 1999, and has an additional 20 options remaining. The purchase also includes five ABB direct current (DC) depot chargers that conform to the Society of Automotive Engineer (SAE) J1772 Combined Charging System (CCS Type 1 Connector), allowing the chargers to support other types and makes of electric vehicles operating for the City of Toronto. The chargers will be commissioned by New Flyer Infrastructure Solutions™ and ABB.

TTC is the public transit agency operating bus, subway, streetcar, and paratransit services in Toronto, Ontario. As the third largest transit system in North America, TTC delivers more than 536 million passenger trips each year, and has integrated sustainability into its multi-year plan to reduce greenhouse gases, air pollution, and congestion on Torontoroadways.

The TTC's electric bus program aims to transform mobility in Toronto with a 100% zero-emission bus fleet by 2040, which includes a commitment to purchase only zero-emission buses by 2025. This program will assist TTC and the greater public transit community in developing bus and electrification specifications for future procurements.

"New Flyer is proud to expand its zero-emission partnership with Toronto, with this follow on TTC order," said Chris Stoddart, President, New Flyer.

NFI has over 50 years of experience in manufacturing zero-emission buses (ZEBs), with more electric buses on the road in North America than any other manufacturer. In 2018, New Flyer became the first bus manufacturer in the world to sign on to the Shared Mobility Principles for Livable Cities, joined the Charging Interface Initiative (CharIN) to support industry charging standards for all electric vehicles, became the first licensee outside the Volvo Group to join OppCharge in North America, and celebrated the Canadian Urban Transit Research and Innovation Consortium's (CUTRIC) launch of the Pan-Canadian Electric Bus Demonstration and Integration Trial – the world's first multi-manufacturer interoperability demonstration for fast-charge electric buses – of which New Flyer was a contributing member.

About NFI

With over 6,100 team members, operating from 31 facilities across Canada and the United States, NFI is North America'slargest bus manufacturer providing a comprehensive suite of mass transportation solutions under brands: New Flyer®(heavy-duty transit buses), ARBOC® (low-floor cutaway and medium-duty buses), MCI® (motor coaches), and NFI Parts™ (parts, support, and service). NFI buses incorporate the widest range of drive systems available including: clean diesel, natural gas, diesel-electric hybrid, and zero-emission electric (trolley, battery, and fuel cell) on proven bus platforms. It also supports infrastructure development through New Flyer Infrastructure Solutions™, a service dedicated to providing safe and reliable charging and mobility solutions. In total, NFI supports over 74,000 buses and coaches currently in service across North America. For the fiscal year ended December 31, 2017, NFI posted revenues of US $2.4 billion. NFI common shares are traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol NFI. News and information are available at www.nfigroup.com.

About New Flyer

New Flyer is North America's heavy-duty transit bus leader and offers the most advanced product line under the Xcelsior® and Xcelsior CHARGE™ brands. It also offers infrastructure development through New Flyer Infrastructure Solutions™, a service dedicated to providing safe, sustainable, and reliable charging and mobility solutions. New Flyer actively supports over 41,000 heavy-duty transit buses (New Flyer, NABI, and Orion) currently in service, of which 7,300 are powered by electric motors and battery propulsion and 1,600 are zero-emission. Further information is available at www.newflyer.com.

Forward-Looking Statements

This press release may contain forward-looking statements relating to expected future events and financial and operating results of NFI Group that involve risks and uncertainties. Although the forward-looking statements contained in this press release are based upon what management believes to be reasonable assumptions, investors cannot be assured that actual results will be consistent with these forward-looking statements, and the differences may be material. Actual results may differ materially from management expectations as projected in such forward-looking statements for a variety of reasons, including market and general economic conditions and economic conditions of and funding availability for customers to purchase buses and to purchase parts or services, customers may not exercise options to purchase additional buses, the ability of customers to suspend or terminate contracts for convenience and the other risks and uncertainties discussed in the materials filed with the Canadian securities regulatory authorities and available on SEDAR at www.sedar.com. Due to the potential impact of these factors, the NFI Group disclaims any intention or obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, unless required by applicable law.

SOURCE NFI Group Inc.

rt.gif?NewsItemId=C1135&Transmission_Id=

For further information: For media inquiries, please contact: Lindy Norris, P: 204.792.8424, Lindy_Norris@newflyer.com; For investor inquiries, please contact: Stephen King, P: 204.224.6382, Stephen_King@newflyer.com

Related Links

http://www.newflyer.com

 

 

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smallspy

smallspy

Posted
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2 minutes ago, D40-90 said:

More from flyer which is good. I thought they would test them out before ordering more. NewFlyer must be really convincing, lol. I wonder if another garage will get the additional 10 buses, or will they just be at Arrow?

The TTC is ordering 60 electric buses total - 20 from each manufacturer. The 20 buses from each manufacturer will all be based at the same garage.


This is not specifically a New Flyer thing. And has been known for quite some time.

 

Dan

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Xtrazsteve

Xtrazsteve

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8 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

How come TTC never considered the LFSe which I saw some systems testing?

Just a little research will tell you it's a terrible idea. TTC doesn't want to install charging stations at terminals. It's a lot more infrasture for something unproven. LFSe would be limited to routes that can charge at the terminal.

Given the current way TTC operate their buses, LFSe will never be suitable. They'll have to schedule an extra 5 minutes on every trip on long routes like 35 Jane. They need multiple charging stations at Jane and PV station cause we all know a whole bunch of buses come in batches. None of them can leave without charging. No buses can short turn if they need to make it to the charging station. They cannot be reassigned to other routes or shelter bus without charging stations nearby. TTC won't be able to test them around the city without significant investment in charging stations. There's so many limitations to the LFSe it has no place in the TTC fleet.

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