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On 6/5/2019 at 9:22 PM, Wayside Observer said:

That kind of reminds me of the famous "Fuel Oil" fillers on PRR's old electric locomotives like the GG1.  It wasn't for propulsion, it was to fire the little steam boiler that provided heat to the train.  What's old is new again...

I'm sure eventually they will figure out a way to take the heat from the batteries and use that energy to heat the bus. 

Until then i guess it's more efficient to have an aux generator for heat. 

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9 hours ago, Finch East said:

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Now this is a proper and comfortable rear seating layout, one that we havent seen since the Orion VII NGs. Ample leg room, no damn protrusions in the middle of the aisle in the rear, and a bit more room to stand without hitting your head on top of the damn sidewalls. It's amazing what an extra 12 inches of overall length can do for a bus.

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9 hours ago, lip said:

Now this is a proper and comfortable rear seating layout, one that we havent seen since the Orion VII NGs. Ample leg room, no damn protrusions in the middle of the aisle in the rear, and a bit more room to stand without hitting your head on top of the damn sidewalls. It's amazing what an extra 12 inches of overall length can do for a bus.

Not to mention the  rear-most window appears to be openable, something that's seriously flawed on the Novas, especially with their blasting heating system issues.

But yes, the layout seems very logical.

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I think the article’s math is off. I doubt there are 425,000 transit buses currently in service worldwide, let alone electric ones.

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23 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

I think the article’s math is off. I doubt there are 425,000 transit buses currently in service worldwide, let alone electric ones.

No. Let's say a large-ish city has ~1 000 buses. There are more than 425 large-ish cities in the world.

Many Chinese cities have well over 1 000 buses, many of them being Electric. It might not be that high, bit it isn't too far off. And there are definitely more than 425 000 buses in the world.

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From the wiki it states the first 10 units are 2018 models. Can anyone confirm this especially since the first unit came in April of 2019?

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On June 6, 2019 at 10:56 PM, Shaun said:

I'm sure eventually they will figure out a way to take the heat from the batteries and use that energy to heat the bus. 

Until then i guess it's more efficient to have an aux generator for heat. 

Do you mean taking the heat the batteries produce as they charge/discharge or use electricity from them to power heaters, or a combination of both?  Moving the heat generated by the cells in the battery pack into the bus would be great but might not be the easiest thing to pull off.  I'm not sure they'd produce adequate heat to keep the inside of the vehicle comfortable though.  Running electric heaters off the batteries could be done but at the wattages required, figure on around 10,000 W or so, it'd kill the range and endurance of the vehicle pretty quickly so I think a diesel fired heater's the way to go if the bus has to carry its own electricity supply around with it.

Of course, back in the old days of trolley poles and two wires overhead, adequate electric heat without torpedoing range and endurance was no problem.

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23 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Do you mean taking the heat the batteries produce as they charge/discharge or use electricity from them to power heaters, or a combination of both?  Moving the heat generated by the cells in the battery pack into the bus would be great but might not be the easiest thing to pull off.  I'm not sure they'd produce adequate heat to keep the inside of the vehicle comfortable though.  Running electric heaters off the batteries could be done but at the wattages required, figure on around 10,000 W or so, it'd kill the range and endurance of the vehicle pretty quickly so I think a diesel fired heater's the way to go if the bus has to carry its own electricity supply around with it.

If the electrical system is liquid cooled, it should be possible to pull heat out (must have been done by someone already), my concern is: is there enough?

On 6/7/2019 at 2:46 AM, FlyerD901 said:

Here

TTC is looking at the potential option of 5 ebuses from NFI and 5 from Proterra, because of issues with BYD.

Relevant part on page 24, copied below for the lazy: :P

 

Vehicle Delivery: Due to repeated delays in delivery schedule from BYD and 
delays to submission of non-bus deliverables required under contract, on May 
3rd, 2019, TTC issued BYD a formal vendor performance review. Subsequent 
letters were sent to BYD on May 6th and May 27th advising that TTC would not be 
exercising options for additional buses under this contract and requesting follow-
up on the requested action plan to improve performance on the base contract for 
10 eBuses. TTC has engaged in discussions with both New Flyer and Proterra 
who have confirmed that they would be able to increase their option order by 5 
buses each, allowing TTC to fulfill the Board directive to deliver 60 eBuses under 
the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund even if the negotiated procurements were 
not split equally between vendors.

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10 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Why are they even entertaining a Chinese brand... Support the Canadian manufacturers!

They already are supporting all of the Canadian manufacturers of full-size, long-range electric transit buses: New Flyer.

The NovaBUS LFSe is only short-range, and the Lion Electric Company only makes midibuses.

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11 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Why are they even entertaining a Chinese brand... Support the Canadian manufacturers!

Because successive federal governments have signed us up for a lot of very exploitative free trade deals that specifically preclude Canada-first government purchasing.  It's easy to get hauled up in front of a NAFTA or WTO trade panel and end up paying damages.  Doing a Canada-first procurement program modelled after any number of US government mandated "Buy America" programs would be a fast way to end up in trouble and paying settlements because a lot of our trade deals are lopsided and not a level playing field at all.

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Yeah, dealing with China is a level playing field.. LOL. Especially in today's political climate.

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Today's political climate is a mess.

Remember how the Quebec government attempted to sole source Bombardier to build new trains for the Montreal Metro to keep the jobs in Quebec and Alstom either threatened or began a WTO proceeding over it?  That's how the Bombardier-Alstom joint venture on the Azure cars came about, to settle that without the whole thing getting dragged through the WTO trade dispute process.

The unfortunate thing is that this means the precedent's been set now with respect to transit vehicles so I don't think the TTC can disqualify BYD on the grounds of supporting Canadian manufacturers since it's technically illegal under a number of free trade agreements to do that.  However, BYD's record to date on delivering that mini-fleet looks like it's providing ample grounds for them to be disqualified on a number of cold, hard technical grounds that are actionable and are not overruled by any total giveaway trade deals.

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4 hours ago, MK78 said:

Why are they even entertaining a Chinese brand... Support the Canadian manufacturers!

More like Canadian assemblers. Damn near all  the constituent parts are offshore...except maybe the Cummins engine from Columbus Indiana, and even then it’s the same M.O. of assembling offshore parts....it’s not like they’re a shining example of the “USA reliability” fallacy anyhow.

So long as BYD has their California facility for assembly, they can’t be weeded out on content grounds any more than nova’s Plattsburgh, or Flyer’s St. Cloud units can.

3 hours ago, MK78 said:

Yeah, dealing with China is a level playing field.. LOL. Especially in today's political climate.

What’s a handful of extrajudicial murders between friends, eh?

 

2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Today's political climate is a mess.

Remember how the Quebec government attempted to sole source Bombardier to build new trains for the Montreal Metro to keep the jobs in Quebec and Alstom either threatened or began a WTO proceeding over it?  That's how the Bombardier-Alstom joint venture on the Azure cars came about, to settle that without the whole thing getting dragged through the WTO trade dispute process.

The unfortunate thing is that this means the precedent's been set now with respect to transit vehicles so I don't think the TTC can disqualify BYD on the grounds of supporting Canadian manufacturers since it's technically illegal under a number of free trade agreements to do that.  However, BYD's record to date on delivering that mini-fleet looks like it's providing ample grounds for them to be disqualified on a number of cold, hard technical grounds that are actionable and are not overruled by any total giveaway trade deals.

Hopefully they can recover the funds sunk into their orphan charging system Panasonic just finished at eglinton, should that come to pass.

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