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Hopefully more comes out about this. Schedule concerns, not a surprise. However, the interesting one is quality concerns. TTC must have staff or representatives checking out buses in production and they must not like what they see if quality is a concern at this stage. It's pretty typical for agencies procuring vehicles to have representatives inspecting vehicles at the manufacturers facility. Guess we'll see what more becomes of this.

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7 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

However, the interesting one is quality concerns. TTC must have staff or representatives checking out buses in production and they must not like what they see if quality is a concern at this stage. It's pretty typical for agencies procuring vehicles to have representatives inspecting vehicles at the manufacturers facility.

They absolutely do. It's part of every vehicle procurement that the TTC goes through.

 

7 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

Guess we'll see what more becomes of this.

 Indeed.

 

Dan

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The facility inspectors was an interesting one during the Flexity procurement, given that TTC kept claiming that Bombardier were promising them cars on various schedules, yet the facility inspectors must surely have been giving TTC enough feedback on their inspections to infer production rate (and maybe MDBF too). Perhaps a lesson has been learned for this process and the nature of the inspection contracts/arrangements have changed?

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The 3700s should be delivered to Queensway to replace the soon to be retiring 7900s and 8000s. They handle new flyer buses well and it's only fair that they get the procurement of this series. 

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20 minutes ago, Genius101 said:

The 3700s should be delivered to Queensway to replace the soon to be retiring 7900s and 8000s. They handle new flyer buses well and it's only fair that they get the procurement of this series. 

Nah they should have sent the BYDs there XD. It's only fair

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5 hours ago, Genius101 said:

The 3700s should be delivered to Queensway to replace the soon to be retiring 7900s and 8000s. They handle new flyer buses well and it's only fair that they get the procurement of this series. 

Queensway or Birchmount cannot receive any new vehicles in the near future because of old architecture that allowed for only diesel vehicles. Hybrids and battery-electric buses exceed the height clearance that allows for these vehicle to operate inside the buildings. Also, Queensway was known for their reputation with Flyers/New Flyers in the past. But times have changed, and generations of employees have come and gone. What was the case over 5 years ago is definitely not the case today

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9 hours ago, Genius101 said:

 They handle new flyer buses well and it's only fair that they get the procurement of this series. 

You do realize that these new electric buses have very little in common with old New Flyer buses?

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7 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

Queensway or Birchmount cannot receive any new vehicles in the near future because of old architecture that allowed for only diesel vehicles. Hybrids and battery-electric buses exceed the height clearance that allows for these vehicle to operate inside the buildings. Also, Queensway was known for their reputation with Flyers/New Flyers in the past. But times have changed, and generations of employees have come and gone. What was the case over 5 years ago is definitely not the case today

That means more "hand me downs" to replace the 7900s and 8000s. 

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TTC Electric Bus Deliveries

This post with be edited until the first spotting on the next page is posted.

Green- delivered, in service

Black- delivered, not in service

Red- not delivered

New Flyer XE40:

3700

3701

3702

3703

3704

3705

3706

3707

3708

3709

3710

3711

3712

3713

3714

3715

3716

3717

3718

3719

2/20 delivered, 0/20 in service.

BYD K9M:

3720

3721

3722

3723

3724

3725

3726

3727

3728

3729

3730-3739 cancelled

0/10 delivered, 0/10 in service.

Proterra Catalyst BE40:

3740

3741

3742

3743

3744

3745

3746

3747

3748

3749

3750

3751

3752

3753

3754

3755

3756

3757

3758

3759

0/20 delivered, 0/20 in service.

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16 minutes ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

TTC Electric Bus Deliveries

This post with be edited until the first spotting on the next page is posted.

Green- delivered, in service

Black- delivered, not in service

Red- not delivered

New Flyer XE40:

3700

3701

3702

3703

3704

3705

3706

3707

3708

3709

3710

3711

3712

3713

3714

3715

3716

3717

3718

3719

2/20 delivered, 0/20 in service.

BYD K9M:

3720

3721

3722

3723

3724

3725

3726

3727

3728

3729

3730-3739 cancelled

0/10 delivered, 0/10 in service.

Proterra Catalyst BE40:

3740

3741

3742

3743

3744

3745

3746

3747

3748

3749

3750

3751

3752

3753

3754

3755

3756

3757

3758

3759

0/20 delivered, 0/20 in service.

You already have this list posted multiple times on this thread. It's not necessary and it's a waste of time. Just update one of them instead of posting a new one each time a vehicle is delivered, for example. I believe I mentioned this to you before.

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3 hours ago, Shemar said:

You already have this list posted multiple times on this thread

First, I'm on mobile, so it's hard to scroll through pages. If there's a better way than either repeatedly pressing 'prevous page' or copying the link and pasting it back (editing the 'page=X' part), I'd love to know.

Secondly, I only copied  the NFI section. I guess it copied the whole thing instead. Sorry for that.

Also, I'd love it if @TechnicaProductions put a link to whatever the first one was in the topic post.

Finally, what I think is "not necessary and a waste of time" is quoting the entirety of a large post, as it is annoying having to scroll past them.

I admit I am in the wrong. I am used to posting these in the prairie provinces' forums (where it'll be updated several times before a new page is created).

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11 hours ago, TechnicaProductions said:

3701 is delivered at Arrow

was it driven by contract driver or by truck with flatbed?

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5 minutes ago, Sutharsan said:

was it driven by contract driver or by truck with flatbed?

Like 3700, it was flatbeded in. All electrics are trucked in.

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2 hours ago, Sutharsan said:

was it driven by contract driver or by truck with flatbed?

If you thought about it, it's impossible to drive them in from Minnesota. Where would they be about to charge the bus and who's going to pay for the hotel while the driver waits for the damn thing to charge for 4-6+ hours?

Logistically speaking, these overnight charging electric buses have the word fail written all over it. Until they invent a way to easily swap the batteries, it's going to be a nightmare to ensure all buses are charged when they have 250 of them. If they have to fill up an empty diesel bus, it'll just be late for service. Charging an empty bus, they'll lose the entire shift. They can't temporarily allocate more bus to a garage. Not only they won't have enough chargers, they grid can only handle so many buses being charged at the same time. The garage can't even handle different types of buses either.

 

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Perhaps it came up during the initial procurement, but why was a (for lack of a better term) more conventional plug-in electric bus chosen over the "dock to overhead catenary" that (many) XE40s and LFSes use? 

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8 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Logistically speaking, these overnight charging electric buses have the word fail written all over it. Until they invent a way to easily swap the batteries, it's going to be a nightmare to ensure all buses are charged when they have 250 of them. If they have to fill up an empty diesel bus, it'll just be late for service. Charging an empty bus, they'll lose the entire shift. They can't temporarily allocate more bus to a garage. Not only they won't have enough chargers, they grid can only handle so many buses being charged at the same time. The garage can't even handle different types of buses either.

And how have they done it elsewhere? I'll be the first to admit the the technology may not be ready for prime-time usage right now, but as the technology improves it will become so.

 

There are ways around all of the problems that you've listed, and most of them are not even that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

 

6 hours ago, meltingtomato said:

Perhaps it came up during the initial procurement, but why was a (for lack of a better term) more conventional plug-in electric bus chosen over the "dock to overhead catenary" that (many) XE40s and LFSes use? 

It's been covered several times here, but the gist of it is:

 

An overnight-charged bus can operate on any given route. There is no additional infrastructure, beyond what is needed at the garage, needed to support it in the fleet or on the street.

 

A bus that gets charged at the end of its routes needs a lot of infrastructure at the loops (and potentially even in the middle of the route), and thus it makes it much harder to change (lengthen, shorten, or move the terminals of) the route if the requirements dictate it. As well, the buses will only be able to operate on those routes where the infrastructure has been installed.

 

Dan

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9 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

If you thought about it, it's impossible to drive them in from Minnesota. Where would they be about to charge the bus and who's going to pay for the hotel while the driver waits for the damn thing to charge for 4-6+ hours?

Logistically speaking, these overnight charging electric buses have the word fail written all over it. Until they invent a way to easily swap the batteries, it's going to be a nightmare to ensure all buses are charged when they have 250 of them. If they have to fill up an empty diesel bus, it'll just be late for service. Charging an empty bus, they'll lose the entire shift. They can't temporarily allocate more bus to a garage. Not only they won't have enough chargers, they grid can only handle so many buses being charged at the same time. The garage can't even handle different types of buses either.

 

Thanks for your information

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13 hours ago, smallspy said:

It's been covered several times here, but the gist of it is:

-snip-

Ah, thanks for the insight. If that's the case, I assume that those that overhead charge can't be charged overnight for a combined longer range than just garage charging alone? Seems like better solution (albeit more expensive upfront), but I see can see why it would be unattractive, especially for an initial fleet for an already high upfront investment.

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10 hours ago, meltingtomato said:

Ah, thanks for the insight. If that's the case, I assume that those that overhead charge can't be charged overnight for a combined longer range than just garage charging alone?

That's correct. They only have enough batteries to last for a considerably shorter range - 20 to 30 miles or so, and in some cases even less.

 

The converse, of course, is that they also have fewer batteries, meaning that the vehicles weigh less.

 

Quote

Seems like better solution (albeit more expensive upfront), but I see can see why it would be unattractive, especially for an initial fleet for an already high upfront investment.

They both have their advantages and disadvantages, and to be honest, those will even vary from property-to-property. In a place like Toronto, which has many well-established routes, the installation of the infrastructure at the ends of the line isn't actually that big a problem, save for cost and siting concerns. That said, there are other places - and even locations in Toronto - where the ridership patterns may be more transient and less established, and where the installation of infrastructure at every loop may be a far bigger issue and thus the overnight-charging bus may make more sense there.


Dan

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On 5/15/2019 at 12:57 AM, Xtrazsteve said:

If you thought about it, it's impossible to drive them in from Minnesota. Where would they be about to charge the bus and who's going to pay for the hotel while the driver waits for the damn thing to charge for 4-6+ hours?

 

 

I don't see that a problem.  Drivers need to "recharge" too after driving 12 to 13 hours not to mention there is a regulation as how many hours a commercial driver can drive in a day, a week and 2 week period.  When BYD bus demoed a bus in Buffalo, they have a truck carrying a portable charger with the bus.  

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1 hour ago, leylandvictory2 said:

I don't see that a problem.  Drivers need to "recharge" too after driving 12 to 13 hours not to mention there is a regulation as how many hours a commercial driver can drive in a day, a week and 2 week period.  When BYD bus demoed a bus in Buffalo, they have a truck carrying a portable charger with the bus.  

In theory during delivery, the 200-250 mile range will be used up in about four hours of continuous interstate driving at 65 miles per hour, and that’s not even counting the diminishing efficiency of maintaining a speed greater than 55 mph. (Since you cited the US, I’m keeping the units imperial)

What do you suggest they do for the other 8 hours?

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