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TTC Electric Buses

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TTC7447

TTC7447

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Posted (edited)

So, I was on 3735 today on the 941 Keele Express, and noticed it was making an unusually loud sound.

 

Edit (April 1)
Upon reviewing the two videos I hyperlinked yesterday, it doesn't seem as loud in the video as it was in-person.  The sound I was referring to was the buzz sound that sounds like a a bad sports car exhaust.  When I first heard the sound, I thought a sports car was driving by, but in reality it was actually the bus (sorry, I'm having a hard time explaining the sound).  Anyways, I'm bringing this up because this sound seemed abnormal compared to other Proterra buses I've been on in the past (last most recent time was 5 months ago in November).  Compared to the other e-buses (New Flyer & BYD) which I've been on more frequently and recently, the Proterra buses in general are louder.

I'm curious to know what the unusual sound is, so if you know, I'd love to read your response!  Thanks in advance!

Edited by TTC7447
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Andythagiant

Andythagiant

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From the eBus final report:

On February 28, 2022, the TTC awarded the following contracts for buses to be delivered by the end of 2023. 1) Nova Bus (LFS Hybrid Platform) – 40 foot hybrid electric buses (quantity 134) 2) New Flyer (Xcelsior Hybrid Platform) – 40 foot hybrid electric buses (quantity 134) 3) New Flyer (Xcelsior Hybrid Platform) – 60 foot hybrid electric buses (quantity 68)

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bus_7246

bus_7246

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8 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Wait, hybrids? diesel+electric?

weren't they supposed to get more electric only buses?

The tender for more electric buses was released a few days ago. They won’t award the contract for a few months 

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Articulated

Articulated

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19 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Wait, hybrids? diesel+electric?

weren't they supposed to get more electric only buses?

TTC is ordering both for now, until the technology for battery-electric buses has matured enough to justify a full fleet of them.

In the meantime, diesel-electric hybrid buses are better than straight diesels.

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MK78

MK78

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15 hours ago, Articulated said:

TTC is ordering both for now, until the technology for battery-electric buses has matured enough to justify a full fleet of them.

In the meantime, diesel-electric hybrid buses are better than straight diesels.

Yeah I agree, the more proven for this climate diesel-electric hybrids are better until technology improves...

I was surprised that they chose new flyers over nova's which they are already very familiar with.

14 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The original plan was 2025+ for electric only if you have forgotten.

I had forgotten, but I thought they may have also ordered a few more e-Buses in the mean time from one of the preferred vendors of the 3 being trialed.

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Tom1122

Tom1122

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45 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Looks like the final report on the eBuses is out. Looks like New Flyers could be the winning pick, which would also maybe explain why the TTC chose New Flyer hybrids, maybe some parts sharing there.

https://stevemunro.ca/2022/04/10/ttc-ebus-study-final-results/

I wonder what this will mean for the Proterras and BYD buses in the TTC fleet with New Flyer most likely being the winner.

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Young

Young

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49 minutes ago, Tom1122 said:

I wonder what this will mean for the Proterras and BYD buses in the TTC fleet with New Flyer most likely being the winner.

I think the TTC is keeping the 25 PROTERRA’s and the 10 BYD buses until retirement I heard somewhere in a document but I’m not 100% sure if it’s changed since the report

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Bus_Medic

Bus_Medic

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I don’t foresee the BYD’s staying, if only because of their proprietary chargers. Somehow I doubt they’ll bother retrofitting them.

I’m confident some university shuttle stateside eager to get into the electric game could take them on if the price is right. Mileage is low, they barely moved.

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MK78

MK78

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58 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

I don’t foresee the BYD’s staying, if only because of their proprietary chargers. Somehow I doubt they’ll bother retrofitting them.

I always thought that it was a dumb move to even attempt to trial these buses that required a proprietary charging system. At least its only 10 of the initially agreed upon 20 buses.

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Cherry_1560

Cherry_1560

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2 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

I don’t foresee the BYD’s staying, if only because of their proprietary chargers. Somehow I doubt they’ll bother retrofitting them.

I’m confident some university shuttle stateside eager to get into the electric game could take them on if the price is right. Mileage is low, they barely moved.

I remember I heard that YRT is interested in BYD buses and are likely to buy them if TTC is not satisfied with BYD buses and doesn't plan to buy again, but I’m not sure if it’s true. But it's still possible that TTC will buy the BYD buses as a part of the ebus order due to some political reasons if BYD is able to modify the buses to meet those "must have" specifications 

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Articulated

Articulated

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8 hours ago, MK78 said:

I always thought that it was a dumb move to even attempt to trial these buses that required a proprietary charging system. At least its only 10 of the initially agreed upon 20 buses.

The purpose of a test fleet is to test as many variables as possible to determine the best outcome for when you start making your large-scale order. There could be some benefits to comparing BYD's AC charging system with the more adopted DC charging system used by the New Flyer and Proterra buses. But as @Bus_Medic pointed out already, the customization options available to TTC were rather limited back in 2018 when the orders were placed, so TTC had to go with what the manufacturer was willing to provide.

7 hours ago, Cherry_1560 said:

I remember I heard that YRT is interested in BYD buses and are likely to buy them if TTC is not satisfied with BYD buses and doesn't plan to buy again, but I’m not sure if it’s true. But it's still possible that TTC will buy the BYD buses as a part of the ebus order due to some political reasons if BYD is able to modify the buses to meet those "must have" specifications 

YRT has gotten two orders of battery-electric buses from New Flyer, and one pair of Nova LFSe battery-electric buses; both models have significant parts commonality with the rest of the fleet. I'm not sure why YRT would want to add BYDs to their fleet, given the lack of commonality with the rest of the fleet, different training/maintenance requirements, and now data from TTC's test showing a reduced performance. I haven't personally seen or heard of anything from the Region suggesting they were remotely interested in awarding anything to BYD.

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Cherry_1560

Cherry_1560

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3 hours ago, wheelindealin said:

Were BYD's buses that problematic?

I don't think there's been a time where more than 5 were active service at any given time. And since winter, there's only around 1-3 active at any given time - usually 3752, 57 and 58. 

Because of China's zero policy on the pandemic, it is not easy for both TTC and BYD Canada to get parts from China in a short time and BYD's professional technicians cannot come to Canada in time to provide technical support. So the main problem for BYD is that when they break down, they cannot be repaired in a short time and being parked in the garage which severely affects the availability of BYD buses. However, according to the ebus final report, BYD has committed to sending a professional technician to TTC in Q2 2022 to provide technical support. Hoping the availability can be improved in the near future. 

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Xtrazsteve

Xtrazsteve

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7 hours ago, Cherry_1560 said:

Because of China's zero policy on the pandemic, it is not easy for both TTC and BYD Canada to get parts from China in a short time and BYD's professional technicians cannot come to Canada in time to provide technical support. So the main problem for BYD is that when they break down, they cannot be repaired in a short time and being parked in the garage which severely affects the availability of BYD buses. However, according to the ebus final report, BYD has committed to sending a professional technician to TTC in Q2 2022 to provide technical support. Hoping the availability can be improved in the near future. 

I'm sure they have technicians in the US. It is the same reason for Proterra which non-Canadians can't get to Toronto.

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M. Parsons

M. Parsons

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On 4/13/2022 at 6:57 AM, Cherry_1560 said:

Because of China's zero policy on the pandemic, it is not easy for both TTC and BYD Canada to get parts from China in a short time and BYD's professional technicians cannot come to Canada in time to provide technical support. So the main problem for BYD is that when they break down, they cannot be repaired in a short time and being parked in the garage which severely affects the availability of BYD buses. However, according to the ebus final report, BYD has committed to sending a professional technician to TTC in Q2 2022 to provide technical support. Hoping the availability can be improved in the near future. 

But parts supply problems for BYD operators existed before the pandemic.

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