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Life After Greyhound


ns8401
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On 1/22/2022 at 9:40 PM, ZümmyZüm said:

Wow I didn’t know it was actually being used in service, it’s been sitting at that parking lot on Innes for at least 2 weeks now. Unfortunately the owner didn’t lock the door and once the air pressure dropped the doors opened, full of snow now. 

Good luck drying the interior and the electronic components. That's not going to be cheap to fix.

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Couple of other station reuse plans came out today:

The former station in Tyler, Texas (opened as a Trailways station in 1933 and closed 2019) will become a hotel:

https://mix931fm.com/history-revisited-bus-station-in-downtown-tyler-tx-to-become-new-hotel/
 

The former station in Chattanooga, Tennessee (opened in 1997 and closed in 2021) will become a new location for a non-profit community mental health organization:

http://www.chattanoogapulse.com/local-news/health-news/mcnabb-center-acquires-new-building-will-move-intensive-comm/

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The race for Montréal-Ottawa permits is over. The contestants : Trentway-Wagar, Rider Express, Orléans Express and Autobus Maheux.

  • Trentway-Wagar's request for the express route via 417 and service to YUL was denied, due to multiple failures : no estimated ridership, no customer profile, no estimated revenues, no estimated charges (decision 2022 QCCTQ 0296). Its proposed termini in were Saint-Laurent station in Ottawa, terminus Les Promenades in Gatineau and the Megabus curbside stop in Montreal;
  • Rider Express' requests for the express route via 417, the 148 route, service to YUL and a Toronto-Montreal route were denied due to failure to present a schedule (decision 2022 QCCTQ 0295). Its proposed termini in were Central station in Ottawa, terminus Les Promenades in Gatineau and Gare d'autocars de Montreal;
  • Orléans Express' request for the express route via 417 (with service to YUL and/or Kirkland) was approved, but was denied semi-express routes via highways 148/50 or 417 (decision 2022 QCCTQ 0285). Orléans proposed stops in Vaudreuil and Rigaud for the 417 semi-express, and Saint-Eustache, Lachute and Montebello for the 148/50 semi-express. The commission deemed the semi-express services proposed by Orléans not attractive for actual and potential riders. Termini in Ottawa (uOttawa, train station), Gatineau (place du Portage, Promenades Gatineau) and Montréal (Gare d'autocars, Beau-Soir in Kirkland) will be maintained.
  • Autobus Maheux had a some requests, 3 of them denied (decision 2022 QCCTQ 0286). Maheux is allowed to operate routes with all bus classes, from 15-seater minibuses to highway coaches comprising a toilet :
    • Regional north (request # 801267) : approved
      • 2 × daily return service between Montréal and Ottawa via Gatineau (highway 148), 4 h 48 min trip with regular fares from $8.34 to $54.83
      • Stops at : Montréal (Gare d'autocars), Laval (Cartier metro station), Saint-Eustache, Lachute, Grenville, Fassett, Montebello, Papineauville, Plaisance, Thurso, Masson-Angers, Gatineau (Promenades), Hull (Place Cartier, Place du Portage) and Ottawa (uOttawa, Train station)
    • Express north (request # 801269) : approved
      • 3 ×  daily return service between Montréal and Ottawa via Gatineau (highways 148 and 50), 3 h 35 min trip with regular fares from $47.13 to $54.83
      • Stops at : Montréal (Gare d'autocars), Laval (Cartier metro station), Gatineau (Promenades), Hull (Place Cartier, Place du Portage) and Ottawa (uOttawa, Train station)
    • Regional south (request # 804138) : denied (failure to present market and feasability studies)
      • 2 × daily return service between Montréal and Gatineau via Ottawa (highway 417)
      • Stops at : Montréal (Gare d'autocars), Kikrland, Vaudreuil-Dorion, Rigaud, (further stops undisclosed).
    • Express south (request # 804143) : denied (failure to present market and feasability studies, failure to demonstrate support from community and partners, failure to provide estimated ridership and profitability)
      • 6 × daily return service between Montréal and Gatineau via Ottawa (highway 417)
      • Stops at : Montréal (Gare d'autocars), Kikrland, (further stops undisclosed).
    • Express to YUL (request # 814564) : denied (failure to present a valid contract with the airport)
      • Concomitant with Express south

Maheux is not happy, as it planned to finance the regional routes with the profits from the express routes, especially the southern route.

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So I've broken down the proposed timetables for the Ottawa-Montréal corridor :

Montréal-Ottawa

 

Maheux (L)

Maheux (X)

Orléans (K)

Orléans (K)

Maheux (X)

Orléans (Y)

Orléans (Y)

Maheux (X)

Maheux (L)

Orléans (K)

Orléans (Y)

Montréal

Laval at 05:05

06:30

07:00

09:00

13:00

13:00

15:00

15:30

16:00

17:00

20:00

Gatineau Promenades

08:38

09:30

 

 

16:00

 

 

18:30

20:08

 

 

Ottawa Train

09:18

10:05

09:10

11:10

16:35

15:35

17:35

19:05

20:48

19:10

22:35

Gatineau Promenades

 

 

09:55

11:50

 

16:15

18:15

 

 

19:50

23:15

Ottawa-Montréal

 

Maheux (X)

Maheux (L)

Orléans

Orléans (Y)

Maheux (X)

Orléans (K)

Orléans (K)

Maheux (X)

Maheux (L)

Orléans (Y)

Orléans (K)

Gatineau Promenades

 

 

07:00

10:00

 

13:00

14:00

 

 

16:00

18:00

Ottawa Train

06:25

07:00

07:45

10:45

13:00

13:45

14:45

15:00

16:00

16:45

18:45

Gatineau Promenades

07:00

07:25

 

 

13:35

 

 

15:35

16:40

 

 

Montréal

10:00

11:48

09:50

13:10

17:05

15:55

16:55

18:35

20:48

19:10

20:55

L : local · X : express · Y : via YUL Airport · K : via Kirkland

It's clearly an improvement for riders versus previous Greyhound services (2020 timetables for express, local service). However, the proposed schedules just don't complete each other; they compete ― and I doubt that's viable for Maheux. I would not be surprised if they sought to modify the permit, sell it to Orléans or abandon it.

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1 hour ago, webfil said:

I find it interesting that you did not read the reasons why they were denied, which I have taken some of my free time to translate?

Well I mean the first one… it sounds like they submitted an incomplete application. That’s just not excusable. 

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Hey, I've been working on a bus company for a while, but only completed it legally last year. I intend to grow (who doesn't) to serve all rural and fringe communities that can't afford to run their own public transit system. Now I'm at the point where I need drivers and equipment.

I'm interested in buying used GO buses (45ft MCI D series buses in general). Some GO staff suggested that I can buy them in batches of 10 or so for a flat rate when units come up for retirement, but they were drivers and supervisors.

Is there anyone here who might know who the best person to contact may be regarding used equipment?

I'm looking to buy between March and June, and have them road ready for July.

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11 minutes ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Hey, I've been working on a bus company for a while, but only completed it legally last year. I intend to grow (who doesn't) to serve all rural and fringe communities that can't afford to run their own public transit system. Now I'm at the point where I need drivers and equipment.

I'm interested in buying used GO buses (45ft MCI D series buses in general). Some GO staff suggested that I can buy them in batches of 10 or so for a flat rate when units come up for retirement, but they were drivers and supervisors.

Is there anyone here who might know who the best person to contact may be regarding used equipment?

I'm looking to buy between March and June, and have them road ready for July.

Maybe one of their senior level managers, a purchasing manager or the fleet manager would be good places to start. They could probably point you in the right direction. Can’t hurt to ask them. 

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16 hours ago, webfil said:

I find it interesting that you did not read the reasons why they were denied, which I have taken some of my free time to translate?

It's not that. Trentway-Wagar (TW) has been operating in Quebec for quite some time. They are just as capable and willing to run the service as the Quebec Companies. The problem is TW can't provide a realistic ridership details because we are still in a pandemic and business travel is pretty much non-existent. They can't use Greyhound ridership as it was before the pandemic and if TW pulled numbers out of the air, they would been called out on it and denied. There is no pleasing the regulators in a regulated system. TW is a Ontario incorporated company with years of experience in Ontario. The Quebec Government gives Money to Quebec based operators, that's what's at stake here. 2 Quebec Operators got treated good.

As for Rider Express, that was a given, it was obvious that they got denied even though they cooperated with Provincial Laws to properly set up in Quebec. The Quebec Government should be held responsible when it costs a Company to obtain a license, only to be denied. Even TW went through the trouble to secure leases for bus stops only to be denied and they have a Quebec based subsidiary.

This is why most Ontario operators were against the deregulation, they would be treated unfairly with regulated provinces. What's gonna stop those 2 Quebec operators from continuing on to Toronto? Nothing, Ontario is a free market now.

11 hours ago, Lu Haobang said:

That route via 148 is not a money-maker, and I doubt Maheux actually does it without some kind of government subsidy.

Read my post above

1 hour ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Hey, I've been working on a bus company for a while, but only completed it legally last year. I intend to grow (who doesn't) to serve all rural and fringe communities that can't afford to run their own public transit system. Now I'm at the point where I need drivers and equipment.

I'm interested in buying used GO buses (45ft MCI D series buses in general). Some GO staff suggested that I can buy them in batches of 10 or so for a flat rate when units come up for retirement, but they were drivers and supervisors.

Is there anyone here who might know who the best person to contact may be regarding used equipment?

I'm looking to buy between March and June, and have them road ready for July.

I wish you well especially its now a free market in Ontario! Make sure that you have researched your market well and know what to do if you run into income problems. Also, you will have a competitor so you will need to constantly adjust your service.

Also, the insurance is not cheap on a facility policy. I know Equinox Bus Lines is on a facility policy by choice because the voluntary market has too many restrictions when adding drivers. You have to carry $8 Million BI insurance so I hope you fully understand that cost since you want to use buses that seat more than 13 seats.

Small Companies like Equinox Bus Lines and Onexbus (Operated by Door 2 Door Limo) are established companies that started with 1 vehicle doing Charters before they took on more vehicles to do Intercity Bus Service. Then you have Great Canadian Coaches, Badder Bus and Coach Canada who are self insured and can buy as many buses as they want since they can control their insurance costs.

Again, I wish you well and hopefully the public embraces your service!

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13 hours ago, Megabus Rider said:

I wish you well especially its now a free market in Ontario! Make sure that you have researched your market well and know what to do if you run into income problems. Also, you will have a competitor so you will need to constantly adjust your service.

Also, the insurance is not cheap on a facility policy. I know Equinox Bus Lines is on a facility policy by choice because the voluntary market has too many restrictions when adding drivers. You have to carry $8 Million BI insurance so I hope you fully understand that cost since you want to use buses that seat more than 13 seats.

Small Companies like Equinox Bus Lines and Onexbus (Operated by Door 2 Door Limo) are established companies that started with 1 vehicle doing Charters before they took on more vehicles to do Intercity Bus Service. Then you have Great Canadian Coaches, Badder Bus and Coach Canada who are self insured and can buy as many buses as they want since they can control their insurance costs.

Again, I wish you well and hopefully the public embraces your service!

Yes, it's a very expensive operation, but a fair bit less than budgeted for. As for "competition", I won't really be competing with any existing carriers for now. My goal is to break even or even run small loses for a while. This is more of passion project I am working on with some friends. We all already have good jobs, so income is our second concern. The company will be serving unserved markets, and does not focus on main routes like the 401. We do small towns and rural areas with very limited service where no other company wants to be.

15 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Maybe one of their senior level managers, a purchasing manager or the fleet manager would be good places to start. They could probably point you in the right direction. Can’t hurt to ask them. 

Know any initial contacts? I only know people at municipal systems with 40ft buses, ironically. I'm just gonna call up Metrolinx/GO and see if they can put me through.... but it wouldn't hurt to have an idea first. Thanks for the advice though :) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Knoxville, Tennessee’s Greyhound terminal, built in 1960 has been sold to a private developer. The station is still open as far as I know but may not be for much longer. Greyhound is searching for a new site. 
https://www.wbir.com/amp/article/money/business/magnolia-avenue-greyhound-bus-station-bought-for-145-million-by-knoxville-company/51-c62802f2-0a24-4860-8b20-67fb5ce0e672

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On 3/4/2022 at 11:21 PM, curlingteam333 said:

Does anyone know where does Greyhound parked in Toronto during long layover?

My friend who is doing Ourbus stated he noticed after Greyhound drops off at Union Station, they would just get on the Gardiner Expressway going west. That's the 5:35pm departure from Buffalo since Ourbus leaves Buffalo at 4:20pm.

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Cold Shots Edmonton-Cold Lake-Edmonton run may go to 3 days from 5 a week because of high fuel prices. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/8680362/alberta-fuel-prices-bus-service-ticket-increase/

 

Meanwhile the Greyhound station in Asheville, North Carolina which opened in 1986 and closed in November 2020 will soon open as a bar called “The Hound”. They are going to incorporate signs and things that were left behind into the bars decor. 
 

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/entertainment/2022/03/14/asheville-nc-bus-station-reopening-bar-brewery-released-bottles-beer/6989728001/

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10 hours ago, ns8401 said:

Cold Shots Edmonton-Cold Lake-Edmonton run may go to 3 days from 5 a week because of high fuel prices. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/8680362/alberta-fuel-prices-bus-service-ticket-increase/

 

Meanwhile the Greyhound station in Asheville, North Carolina which opened in 1986 and closed in November 2020 will soon open as a bar called “The Hound”. They are going to incorporate signs and things that were left behind into the bars decor. 
 

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/entertainment/2022/03/14/asheville-nc-bus-station-reopening-bar-brewery-released-bottles-beer/6989728001/

For that route to go to 3 days a week would be better for it economically. It currently only runs Tues to Fri. And I can also see them changing Edmonton to Peace River as well as Grande Prairie-Fort St John to at least 4 days a week also based on ridership and just to save $.

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I was wondering why the Ottawa Greyhound Station is situation so far outside of the city? In every other city the bus station is in the downtown core. Why was this one build so far out? 

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8 hours ago, Shaun said:

I was wondering why the Ottawa Greyhound Station is situation so far outside of the city? In every other city the bus station is in the downtown core. Why was this one build so far out? 

Are you talking Ottawa, Ontario? If so it’s actually extremely close to the core. Prior to its closure it was right beside bank street which led straight to downtown Ottawa and over the years had direct access downtown via transit through many routes either just outside of the station or on bank street 

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The Central Station on Catherine AKA Greyhound/Voyageur Terminal is slated to be demolished(probably sometime this year) and condo's will take it place. It's to bad Megabus, Ontario Northland, Orleans Express and the other carriers still couldn't use that location to have there departures to their destinations. This way they would all be together and not spread out over the city, better connections and easier to get to. almost 50 years(1973 I believe when it opened)severed Ottawa well. Waiting in side A/C in the summer & heated in winter. Now you either freeze or roast in the new locations.

I still recall the old Terminal on Albert & Bank.

OLD VOYAGEUR COLONIAL TERMINAL on Albert Street & Bank Street.

 

 

10722827826_4b3a283b94_h.jpg

Central Terminal aka Greyhound/Voyageur on Catherine street

 

bus-terminal.webp

greyhound-bus-terminal-ottawa.webp

1024px-Ottawa_Central_Station_-_03.jpg

1024px-Ottawa_Central_Station_-_02.jpg

1280px-Ottawa_Bus_Station.jpg

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13 hours ago, ns8401 said:

The former Greyhound station in Boise, Idaho, built in 1959, has been sold and will be replaced by apartments. 
 

https://rebusinessonline.com/pacific-partners-residential-buys-former-transportation-terminal-in-boise-for-multifamily-redevelopment-project/

Looking at that station, gets me thinking about so many other fairly elaborate structures serving medium sized cities that once were so common across the US and Canada, but are now a relic of past, better days....

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