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Life After Greyhound

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11 minutes ago, canuck600 said:

You keep saying Rider Express is approved in BC but I've yet to see proof. Do the words Rider Express appear anywhere in the latest PTB bulletin? http://www.ptboard.bc.ca/Bulletins/2018/20181010_Bulletin.pdf

Hi,

You can check here: http://ptboard.bc.ca/bus.htm, where all current and historic applications and decisions are kept.

Look under Rider Express, the decision indicates is was approved on October 12.

Uwe

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On 9/28/2018 at 12:27 PM, roeco said:

And if they can make a case for their application which shouldn't be a problem 

Obviously the PTB isn't satisfied with Diversified's application at this point in time.

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13 hours ago, 9924 said:

Obviously the PTB isn't satisfied with Diversified's application at this point in time.

Why do you say that? The application from Diversified came in a few weeks after Rider's. PTB appears to conduct their reviews based on application date.

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2 hours ago, vortoozo said:

Why do you say that? The application from Diversified came in a few weeks after Rider's. PTB appears to conduct their reviews based on application date.

The bureaucracy in this process is unreal.

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Wilson has been approved for Van-Kamloops and Van-Kelowna.

EBus will be operating Van-Kamloops and Van-Kelowna-Kamloops.

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On 10/14/2018 at 1:30 PM, vortoozo said:

Why do you say that? The application from Diversified came in a few weeks after Rider's. PTB appears to conduct their reviews based on application date.

I said that because at that time, the PTB was not satisfied with DTL’s application, for whatever reason including date of submission. I should have written that a bit more clearly, sorry for the confusion. 

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I haven't been watching this very closely, but offhand, could anyone comment on whether application's for authority to operate have been expedited, time-wise, in light of the situation of Greyhound abandoning the service?  

And by how much, if it's possible to find a fair comparison?

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2 hours ago, traildriver said:

I haven't been watching this very closely, but offhand, could anyone comment on whether application's for authority to operate have been expedited, time-wise, in light of the situation of Greyhound abandoning the service?  

And by how much, if it's possible to find a fair comparison?

Yes, the BC PTB put a simplified/expedited process in place in wake of Greyhound's announcement:

http://www.ptboard.bc.ca/documents/qa-simplified-icb-applications.pdf

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Update on the Manitoba situation, Thompson Bus has begun operations of its overnight Thompson-Winnipeg route via highway PTH #6 using a 47-passenger late model MCI 102series (ex-Northern Bus Lines). Maple Bus Lines begins its Winnipeg-Thompson overnight run on PTH #6 on Sunday, October 21 using a 54-passenger MCI J4500 (ex-Coach Canada).

As a note, Greyhound continues to operate its overnight run on Highway PTH #6 until October 30th.

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Sudbury seems to have expanded service after (maybe before) this cuts. There is now two buses, and after Oct 31 will remain two buses. I guess those two buses will serve Pearson instead of Yorkton

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 7:42 PM, northwesterner said:

The bureaucracy in this process is unreal.

When Acadian Lines shut down here in 2012....Mike Cassidy, owner of Maritime Bus who planned to take over some of the routes basically told the NS, NB & PEI PUBs that if they wanted a bus service they had to get rid of the bureaucracy and work with him. Now 6 years on there's far less restrictions and we've got a pretty good survice.   

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2 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

Sudbury seems to have expanded service after (maybe before) this cuts. There is now two buses, and after Oct 31 will remain two buses. I guess those two buses will serve Pearson instead of Yorkton

I can't make heads or tails of this post. Sudbury, Ontario? Yorkton, Saskatchewan? Pearson Airport? I'm confused.

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5 hours ago, DavidW said:

I can't make heads or tails of this post. Sudbury, Ontario? Yorkton, Saskatchewan? Pearson Airport? I'm confused.

Oops I mean Yorkdale. Greyhound for a couple of years only have one bus between Toronto and Sudbury, ON. I think they brought back the midnight run to Sudbury and the morning run from Sudbury, ON. Those buses serve Pearson Airport instead of Yorkdale Bus Terminal.

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3 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

Oops I mean Yorkdale. Greyhound for a couple of years only have one bus between Toronto and Sudbury, ON. I think they brought back the midnight run to Sudbury and the morning run from Sudbury, ON. Those buses serve Pearson Airport instead of Yorkdale Bus Terminal.

Ontario Northland does the run from Sudbury to Yorkdale and on to downtown, with multiple trips a day.

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Based on information gathered off of the individual bus company websites, here’s an overview of the “post-Greyhound” scheduled service in Manitoba as of November 3, 2018:

The following companies have also been observed in active service:

MAPLE BUS LINES - www.maplebuslines.com
Operates out of 939 Sherbrook Street in Winnipeg
 
Lv. Winnipeg @ 9:00 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 5:45 PM - Sunday to Thursday
Lv. Thompson @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 5:45 PM - Sunday to Thursday
 
Lv. Thompson @ 2:15 PM - Ar. Cross Lake @ 5:30 PM - Monday to Thursday
Lv. Cross lake @ 5:10 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 8:25 PM - Monday to Thursday
 
Lv. Winnipeg @ 7:15 AM - Ar. The Pas @ 4:10 PM - Ar. Thomspon @ 8:25 PM - Monday to Friday
Lv. Thompson @ 8:15 AM - Ar. The Pas @ 12:25 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 9:50 PM - Monday to Friday
 
THOMPSON BUS - www.thompsonbus.com
Operates from the Winnipeg Richardson International Airport:
 
Lv. Thompson @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 7:10 PM - Sunday to Thursday
Lv. Winnipeg @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 7:10 PM - Monday to Friday
 
Lv. Gillam @ 7:45 AM - Ar. Thompson @ 11:45 AM - Monday-Thursday
Lv. Thompson @ 4:30 PM - Ar. Gillam @ 5:40 PM - Sunday to Wednesday
 
Lv. Thompson @ 1:15 PM - Ar. Cross Lake @ 4:10 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
Lv. Cross lake @ 4:30 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 7:25 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
BRANDON AIR SHUTTLE - www.brandonairshuttle.com
Operates from the Winnipeg Richardson International Airport:
 
Lv. Brandon @ 7:00 AM/ 10:00 AM / 2:00 PM
Ar. Winnipeg Airport @ 9:30 AM / 12:30 PM / 5:00 PM - Daily
Lv. Winnipeg Airport @ 11:00 AM / 3:30 PM / 8:00 PM
Ar. Brandon @ 1:30 PM / 6:00 PM / 10:30 PM - Daily
 
Lv. Dauphin @ 9:30 AM  / 1:30 PM - Ar. Brandon @ 11:30 AM / 3:30 PM - Daily
Lv. Brandon @ 1:30 PM / 6:00 PM - Ar. Dauphin @ 3:30 PM / 8:00 PM - Daily
 
KAPSER TRANSPORTATION - www.gokasper.com
Operates from Balmoral Street stop in downtown Winnipeg: 
 
Lv Selkirk @ 6:30 AM / 8:30 AM / 10:30 AM / 3:30 PM / 5:30 PM
Lv. Winnipeg @ 7:30 AM / 9:30 AM / 11:30 AM / 4:30 PM / 6:30 PM - Monday to Friday
 
Lv. Winnipeg @ 8:20 AM - Ar. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Mondsy, Wednesday, Friday
Lv. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Ar. Thunder Bay @ 7:00 PM - Daily
 
Lv. Thunder Bay @ 9:30 AM - Ar. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Daily
Lv. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 7:05 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
 
The following companies have received operating authority and have announced their intentions to start service but have not yet been observed in service.
 
KELSEY BUS LINES - www.kelseybuslines2014.com
Website has schedules posted, media report indicated will start in mid-November:
 
Lv Flin Flon @ 7:30 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 6:50 AM - Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday
Lv. Winnipeg @ 8:30 PM - Ar. Flin Flon @ 8:30 AM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
Lv. Thompson @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 7:10 PM - Sunday Tuesday, Thursday
Lv. Winnipeg @ 10:45 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 7:55 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
RIDER EXPRESS - www.riderexpress.ca
Website indicate that Calgary-Winnipeg trips on hold, however they planning to start Edmonton-Saskatoon service on November 12th with their timetable showing a Saskatoon-Regina-Winnipeg portion:
 
Lv. Regina @ 11:30 AM - Ar. Headingley Flying J @ 6:30 PM - Daily
Lv. Headingley Flying J @ 11:30 PM - Ar. Regina @ 6:30 AM - Daily
 
Despite some media reports raising concern, northern Manitoba appears to be very well (and perhaps over-) serviced. The key thing to watch here is if this level of service continues (based on demand) and if these companies continue to roll.
 
Service to and from the west goes as far as Brandon, but has yet to begin beyond that. This will be interesting to watch as new companies take to the Trans-Canada route.
 
The eastern service into Ontario has been up and running for well over a year or so, and it will likely continue. (Note that Kasper makes a connection with Ontario Northland in White River.) 
 
Staying tuned as this continues to unfold ...
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From Rider Expresses Website... I don't know startup issue?

PLEASE NOTE:

Due to low ridership, we now have ONCE A WEEK service 8:00AM on Fridays for Calgary to Vancouver and 8:00PM Sundays for Vancouver to Calgary. We will add more service once we get enough ridership. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you for your patience.

Calgary to Winnipeg and Winnipeg to Calgary service is on hold until further notice. Sorry for inconvenience.

Edmonton to Saskatoon and Saskatoon to Edmonton services will be ready by November 12. Thank you for your patience.

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7 hours ago, Rapidbus said:

From Rider Expresses Website... I don't know startup issue?

PLEASE NOTE:

Due to low ridership, we now have ONCE A WEEK service 8:00AM on Fridays for Calgary to Vancouver and 8:00PM Sundays for Vancouver to Calgary. We will add more service once we get enough ridership. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank you for your patience.

Calgary to Winnipeg and Winnipeg to Calgary service is on hold until further notice. Sorry for inconvenience.

Edmonton to Saskatoon and Saskatoon to Edmonton services will be ready by November 12. Thank you for your patience.

Probably teething problems related to not having nearly enough time to get their ducks in a row...

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Yet they were whining about how long it was taking to get motor carrier approval in BC. They should have planned better & decided on a start date where they were truly ready.  With multiple cancellations of start dates people are going to lose faith in them before they even get started..

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They cant expect ridership to be 10-15 people like that right off everyday all the time...its gonna take a bit to build the service. And they need to hookup with other co and interline with them. Also if they go on busbud that would help them too. Greyhound had awesome ridership on that route ...Even if they ran only 1 schedule a day even if only 6 days a week they would be better off than trying to do 2 right off

. Also do 3 x week Calgary to Regina.

 

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 8:03 AM, ShermanOaks said:

Based on information gathered off of the individual bus company websites, here’s an overview of the “post-Greyhound” scheduled service in Manitoba as of November 3, 2018:

The following companies have also been observed in active service:

MAPLE BUS LINES - www.maplebuslines.com
Operates out of 939 Sherbrook Street in Winnipeg
 
Lv. Winnipeg @ 9:00 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 5:45 PM - Sunday to Thursday
Lv. Thompson @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 5:45 PM - Sunday to Thursday
 
Lv. Thompson @ 2:15 PM - Ar. Cross Lake @ 5:30 PM - Monday to Thursday
Lv. Cross lake @ 5:10 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 8:25 PM - Monday to Thursday
 
Lv. Winnipeg @ 7:15 AM - Ar. The Pas @ 4:10 PM - Ar. Thomspon @ 8:25 PM - Monday to Friday
Lv. Thompson @ 8:15 AM - Ar. The Pas @ 12:25 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 9:50 PM - Monday to Friday
 
THOMPSON BUS - www.thompsonbus.com
Operates from the Winnipeg Richardson International Airport:
 
Lv. Thompson @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 7:10 PM - Sunday to Thursday
Lv. Winnipeg @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 7:10 PM - Monday to Friday
 
Lv. Gillam @ 7:45 AM - Ar. Thompson @ 11:45 AM - Monday-Thursday
Lv. Thompson @ 4:30 PM - Ar. Gillam @ 5:40 PM - Sunday to Wednesday
 
Lv. Thompson @ 1:15 PM - Ar. Cross Lake @ 4:10 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
Lv. Cross lake @ 4:30 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 7:25 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
BRANDON AIR SHUTTLE - www.brandonairshuttle.com
Operates from the Winnipeg Richardson International Airport:
 
Lv. Brandon @ 7:00 AM/ 10:00 AM / 2:00 PM
Ar. Winnipeg Airport @ 9:30 AM / 12:30 PM / 5:00 PM - Daily
Lv. Winnipeg Airport @ 11:00 AM / 3:30 PM / 8:00 PM
Ar. Brandon @ 1:30 PM / 6:00 PM / 10:30 PM - Daily
 
Lv. Dauphin @ 9:30 AM  / 1:30 PM - Ar. Brandon @ 11:30 AM / 3:30 PM - Daily
Lv. Brandon @ 1:30 PM / 6:00 PM - Ar. Dauphin @ 3:30 PM / 8:00 PM - Daily
 
KAPSER TRANSPORTATION - www.gokasper.com
Operates from Balmoral Street stop in downtown Winnipeg: 
 
Lv Selkirk @ 6:30 AM / 8:30 AM / 10:30 AM / 3:30 PM / 5:30 PM
Lv. Winnipeg @ 7:30 AM / 9:30 AM / 11:30 AM / 4:30 PM / 6:30 PM - Monday to Friday
 
Lv. Winnipeg @ 8:20 AM - Ar. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Mondsy, Wednesday, Friday
Lv. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Ar. Thunder Bay @ 7:00 PM - Daily
 
Lv. Thunder Bay @ 9:30 AM - Ar. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Daily
Lv. Sioux Lookout @ 3:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 7:05 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
 
The following companies have received operating authority and have announced their intentions to start service but have not yet been observed in service.
 
KELSEY BUS LINES - www.kelseybuslines2014.com
Website has schedules posted, media report indicated will start in mid-November:
 
Lv Flin Flon @ 7:30 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 6:50 AM - Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday
Lv. Winnipeg @ 8:30 PM - Ar. Flin Flon @ 8:30 AM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
Lv. Thompson @ 10:00 PM - Ar. Winnipeg @ 7:10 PM - Sunday Tuesday, Thursday
Lv. Winnipeg @ 10:45 PM - Ar. Thompson @ 7:55 PM - Monday, Wednesday, Friday
 
RIDER EXPRESS - www.riderexpress.ca
Website indicate that Calgary-Winnipeg trips on hold, however they planning to start Edmonton-Saskatoon service on November 12th with their timetable showing a Saskatoon-Regina-Winnipeg portion:
 
Lv. Regina @ 11:30 AM - Ar. Headingley Flying J @ 6:30 PM - Daily
Lv. Headingley Flying J @ 11:30 PM - Ar. Regina @ 6:30 AM - Daily
 
Despite some media reports raising concern, northern Manitoba appears to be very well (and perhaps over-) serviced. The key thing to watch here is if this level of service continues (based on demand) and if these companies continue to roll.
 
Service to and from the west goes as far as Brandon, but has yet to begin beyond that. This will be interesting to watch as new companies take to the Trans-Canada route.
 
The eastern service into Ontario has been up and running for well over a year or so, and it will likely continue. (Note that Kasper makes a connection with Ontario Northland in White River.) 
 
Staying tuned as this continues to unfold ...

Well Rider Express is already experiencing issues not sure the deal their. And Kasper sure they run Winnipeg to THunderbay to white river BUT nothing connects ..Well see how Rider Express does Edmonton to Saskatoon to Regina to Winnipeg that route had less ridership than Calgary to Winnipeg.  Its going to be madness...for a bit til everyone figures its better to work together. I know Cold Shot is going to interline with a co using 15 passenger to run Saskatoon to Edmonton which is good.

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Time for a Rider Express deadpool? It's going to be hard to build ridership with one trip per week (and their PTB license requires at least daily service, and if they lose it they're done), which costs more rt from Calgary to Vancouver than flying. I think that Pacific Western, which has lots of experience in the industry and didn't think it was worthwhile operating services from BC to Alberta is pretty indicative.

The structural problem is that airfares between most major cities in Western Canada are cheap enough that it makes no sense for most people to take the bus (The exception are routes like Calgary-Edmonton and Vancouver-Kamloops/Kelowna which are still well served despite the loss of Greyhound). That just leaves smaller communities in between, which isn't really a lucrative market. 

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5 hours ago, roeco said:

They cant expect ridership to be 10-15 people like that right off everyday all the time...its gonna take a bit to build the service. And they need to hookup with other co and interline with them. Also if they go on busbud that would help them too. Greyhound had awesome ridership on that route ...Even if they ran only 1 schedule a day even if only 6 days a week they would be better off than trying to do 2 right off

This post is insane. 

Just a week or two ago, you were asking why some routes didn't have any applicants to operate, as there was potential on all of them. "Awesome ridership" ???? People said the same thing about STC, and then the real numbers came out and they were abysmal. 

Wrong. Airfare between the major cities is low and the bus rides are long and uncomfortable. Greyhound certainly didn't help themselves, but its hard to say, hey, for the same price you can ride the bus and it will only take 10 hours, versus 2 in a plane. What kind of value proposition is that for the customer?

Meanwhile, Calgary to Vancouver is 971km (or around 600 miles). Let's say do a one way trip with one driver. At current diesel prices, this is going to cost about $600CAD in fuel. Add in another $330 for driver wages (assuming $20CAD per hour, 15 hour shift). $50CAD to clean the bus at the start of the trip. And a per mile overhead, depreciation, insurance, and maintenance cost (let's go with $0.50/mile CAD - this is hard to estimate and I've been out of the business long enough that I don't remember what we used to use), so that's another $300 CAD. Total cost to run a one way trip is around $1280/CAD. 

I'm probably underestimating all these costs.

They're charging $150CAD for the one-way trip next Friday. You say you can't expect 10-15 people to ride right off everyday. At 10 people, they're barely covering my estimate of costs.

For an extra $115CAD, I can buy a ticket right now for the same day on Air Canada. The flight time is 1hr and 35 minutes. If I plan my life a little better and buy now for Friday the 16th, Air Canada is $216CAD non-stop. If I really get organized and decide to go on Friday Dec 1, the flight on Air Canada is $95CAD ... substantially less than the bus ticket. 

So ... who are the customers for this service, given the competition?

5 hours ago, IRT_BMT_IND said:

Time for a Rider Express deadpool?

$20 that they cancel service before January 1st.

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