Jump to content

Recommended Posts

On 7/10/2021 at 12:24 PM, 81-717 said:

Agreed, I especially love the screaming of the H5 motors on that stretch of the line, but it was certainly interesting to see how the H6 motors sound in comparison. Unfortunately that video seems to have been taken down (or privated), it was nowhere to be found last time I checked. Hopefully the author will eventually repost it (there have been cases of youtubers taking down videos & even their accounts, only to later create a new account & reupload their videos).

Unpopular opinion, I know: I like the 5s and 6s way more, for the reason @York Transit and I mentioned above.

You know, it's probably actually the popular opinion.  The H5 and 6 cars at speed had an impressive sound for sure.  The other side of it is the demographic.  The H5 and H6 retirements weren't that long ago but the unfortunate truth is 30+ years on, it's a declining number of people who remember the Gloucester cars.

I'm going to have to ask one of my friends for his opinion out of curiosity to see what the consensus is on this, but I suspect the range of people who liked the Gloucesters might be more narrow than I first thought.  The subway system in Toronto has never attracted the interest that subways in other cities have.  Pretty much all the old school guys who were Peter Witt and pre-TTC car fans hated, I mean absolutely hated, the things with a passion because of what they represented in terms of what the subway opening did to the streetcar system with lines being abandoned and a lot of the old equipment being retired.  Much of the subway system built after the original Yonge line opened also replaced a well established streetcar system which had its fans who were understandably indifferent or not thrilled by it being cut back and abandoned by the subway.

What I really think for Gloucester fans, it came down to a range in time for people who too young to be upset by the subway system causing mass streetcar abandonments but old enough to enjoy them before they were retired in 1990.  In the grand scheme of things, that's a pretty small piece of the pie and it ended 30+ years ago and counting.  The speed run from Finch to Sheppard has always been the place to experience a subway train stretching its legs.  An 8 car train of Gloucesters with all the windows open barrelling down the line from Finch to Sheppard uninterrupted by North York Centre with the long screaming brake application at the end was something special.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

You know, it's probably actually the popular opinion.  The H5 and 6 cars at speed had an impressive sound for sure.  The other side of it is the demographic.  The H5 and H6 retirements weren't that long ago but the unfortunate truth is 30+ years on, it's a declining number of people who remember the Gloucester cars.

I'm going to have to ask one of my friends for his opinion out of curiosity to see what the consensus is on this, but I suspect the range of people who liked the Gloucesters might be more narrow than I first thought.  The subway system in Toronto has never attracted the interest that subways in other cities have.  Pretty much all the old school guys who were Peter Witt and pre-TTC car fans hated, I mean absolutely hated, the things with a passion because of what they represented in terms of what the subway opening did to the streetcar system with lines being abandoned and a lot of the old equipment being retired.  Much of the subway system built after the original Yonge line opened also replaced a well established streetcar system which had its fans who were understandably indifferent or not thrilled by it being cut back and abandoned by the subway.

What I really think for Gloucester fans, it came down to a range in time for people who too young to be upset by the subway system causing mass streetcar abandonments but old enough to enjoy them before they were retired in 1990.  In the grand scheme of things, that's a pretty small piece of the pie and it ended 30+ years ago and counting.  The speed run from Finch to Sheppard has always been the place to experience a subway train stretching its legs.  An 8 car train of Gloucesters with all the windows open barrelling down the line from Finch to Sheppard uninterrupted by North York Centre with the long screaming brake application at the end was something special.

Yeah, I suppose it depends on what one grew up with. I assumed it's an unpopular opinion because I assume that only people like myself who grew up with the H-cars would prefer the H-cars over the G/M-cars because we weren't around to see the G/M-cars, whereas the socially acceptable opinion is that the G/M-cars are far more historically important and thus would be most people's favorite. It's impossible to say for sure whether I would feel differently if I grew up riding the G-cars, but based on what I know about them (mostly pictures and some videos, I've never had a chance to visit HCRR yet) I still prefer the H-cars. Another arguably unpopular opinion of mine is that I prefer the more modern 1960/1970s interior over the vintage 1940/1950s interior with incandescent lighting; my favorite interior designs would have to be the 1970s (like the H5/6, R44/46 and several other cars of that era) and 1960s (specifically like the H1 and R32/42). It's weird to think that the younger generations would grow up with just the T1s and TRs and hardly even know of anything that came before that, to them the H-cars would be just as unfamiliar as the G-cars are to most people in my demographic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like vintage interiors, but go back a few more decades. The nauseating waiting room green/blue-green of the 50s (or late 40s, too, if the interior of PCC 4684 at Halton is original) is no good. 4684 I've always found to be particularly stomach turning, with its joyless combination of blue-green and cream.

30405461282_64e0058da1_c.jpg

Now, olive green, wicker seats, and warm incandescents? Now you're talking.

(169k, 768x1024)<br><b>Country:</b> United States<br><b>City:</b> New York<br><b>System:</b> New York City Transit<br><b>Route:</b> Fan Trip<br><b>Car:</b> Low-V (Museum Train) Interior <br><b>Photo by:</b> Andre Samuel<br><b>Date:</b> 6/20/2009<br><b>Viewed (this week/total):</b> 0 / 1427

I would take this over any other transit vehicle interior, though I admit I do enjoy the cheesy colourful 70s interiors. And a lot of people moan until the cows come home about how unmodern cream walls look, but those are far more inviting at night than the TRs, or even worse, the T1s.

And while we're at it, I'd like to know why the CLRV interior looks like a dungeon.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, 81-717 said:

Yeah, I suppose it depends on what one grew up with. I assumed it's an unpopular opinion because I assume that only people like myself who grew up with the H-cars would prefer the H-cars over the G/M-cars because we weren't around to see the G/M-cars, whereas the socially acceptable opinion is that the G/M-cars are far more historically important and thus would be most people's favorite. It's impossible to say for sure whether I would feel differently if I grew up riding the G-cars, but based on what I know about them (mostly pictures and some videos, I've never had a chance to visit HCRR yet) I still prefer the H-cars. Another arguably unpopular opinion of mine is that I prefer the more modern 1960/1970s interior over the vintage 1940/1950s interior with incandescent lighting; my favorite interior designs would have to be the 1970s (like the H5/6, R44/46 and several other cars of that era) and 1960s (specifically like the H1 and R32/42). It's weird to think that the younger generations would grow up with just the T1s and TRs and hardly even know of anything that came before that, to them the H-cars would be just as unfamiliar as the G-cars are to most people in my demographic.

The G and M cars undeniably have historical significance for sure but that's separate from whether people liked them.  There were people, railfans and public, that hated them even at the end.  Some people found it really disconcerting when the lights would go out in the tunnels and others didn't like how dirty they were.  Keeping the Gloucesters clean when they ran in service was like running on a treadmill for the TTC because of the combination of being overweight and having no dynamic braking (only the G4s, only for a while) so heavy brake dust production meets the open windows with predictable results.  As much as I loved them, I also knew people who'd let them go by for a train of H cars unless they were really, really in a hurry.

I think they got the interior designs on the H5 and H6 cars nicely balanced between the light cream and wood grain panels with some colour thrown in on the floors and seats.  They weren't too bright or too dark and didn't have the over the top wood grain and browns everywhere that the H2 and H4s did that screamed 1970s basement rec room.  The H1s were nice too.  The Montrealers were neat cars for sure but the way they combined the blues and yellows inside really screams late 50s-early 60s kitchen.

What you grow up with definitely has an impact; what I got to experience was a really ecclectic mix including everything the Peter Witts grinding their way around downtown on the Tour Tram and I'm fortunate that I got to live on the Yonge line when the whole fleet of Gloucesters minus the train that burned in the 60s was still running and was a daily trolleybus rider until the bitter end.  I'm lucky due to the timing, I've gotten to have lots of experience enjoying all of the types of subway train that Toronto's ever had running in revenue service.  That's an experience I appreciate having, knowing that I'm fortunate to have landed on that window of opportunity while it was open and that once the TTC started retiring subway cars, it's unfortunately not something people entering the hobby after 1990 will get to experience as each class of older cars has been retired.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Gloucesters had their moments, but I wonder how many fans remember high-rate operation? Only on Bloor-Danforth, and it was turned off in the summer of '80 if I recall. There were still occasionally trains in high rate in later years, mostly H2 and H4 it seems to me. I'm not sure I remember H5 in high rate, although they would have to have been, as they started on Bloor-Danforth in 1977, before the Spadina extension opened.

Also, in the days before next stop announcements and door beeping when they're ready to open, and beeping when they close, well it was a more peaceful time. Combine it with high rate operation, and you were across the city before you knew it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

4684 I've always found to be particularly stomach turning, with its joyless combination of blue-green and cream.

Maybe not on the PCCs, but on the H1s the blue-green and cream is a very nice combination (it would also look good if you add the faux woodgrain, without woodgrain it does look more bland, but not in a bad way). To me, the H1/5/6 color scheme is the most distinctive, that I even tend to notice similar color patterns in certain everday objects (for example, the cover of a book I have reminds me of the H1 scheme):

20210711_205443.jpg

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

I like vintage interiors, but go back a few more decades.

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

Now, olive green, wicker seats, and warm incandescents? Now you're talking.

I'm the opposite, I'm not a fan of those types of interiors (especially with wooden bodies or any interior components, such as window frames) because that just has 1920s (or earlier) vibes, and wooden bodies/interiors are like the stone age of transit evolution that make the G-cars look state-of-the-art top-of-the-line modern. Which is why it's very disappointing to think that the Soviet E-cars built in the 1960s & early 1970s weren't all that far off from that 1920s look. As much as the current modern designs like the T1/TR might seem bland, I much prefer them (some of the E-cars have been rebuilt to a similarly modern design).

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

And a lot of people moan until the cows come home about how unmodern cream walls look, but those are far more inviting at night than the TRs, or even worse, the T1s.

Agreed. Interesting that the brand new GO transit cars still have cream interior walls.

48 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

I think they got the interior designs on the H5 and H6 cars nicely balanced between the light cream and wood grain panels with some colour thrown in on the floors and seats.  They weren't too bright or too dark and didn't have the over the top wood grain and browns everywhere that the H2 and H4s did that screamed 1970s basement rec room. The H1s were nice too.

True, the bright colors on the H5/6s always made them feel brighter & more inviting than the T1s. Indeed, the H2/4s seemed significantly darker because the walls were of a darker tan color. It's interesting that the H1s had the exact same cream walls as the H5/6s, makes you wonder why they switched to the darker color on the H2/4 only to switch back to the lighter cream on the H5/6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

I like vintage interiors, but go back a few more decades. The nauseating waiting room green/blue-green of the 50s (or late 40s, too, if the interior of PCC 4684 at Halton is original) is no good. 4684 I've always found to be particularly stomach turning, with its joyless combination of blue-green and cream.

30405461282_64e0058da1_c.jpg

And while we're at it, I'd like to know why the CLRV interior looks like a dungeon.

That's an interesting question about the interior of that car given the history there.  I don't know if the TTC repainted it into those colours while they owned that car or if that was what Louisville specified or if it's something Cleveland did or specified.  I can't remember if some of those PCCs were delivered directly from the St. Louis Car Co. to Cleveland or if they all went by way of Louisville first even though they famously never ran in service and apparently only one of them ever made it out of the yard on a test run.  Personally, I don't mind those colours though.

The HRB PCCs with the single colour cream paint job inside and the orange H2/4 seat upholstery job is definitely a product of its time.  The single colour, no masking to do a second one was definitely a cost concession as was using the same material for the seats that they were using to maintain the cushions on the then newest subway cars.  Pretty much everywhere that was committed to making their PCC cars last a bit longer made changes that were considered modern for the time during their life extension programs like the Landor paint scheme in SF, a lot of the wild stuff they did in Pittsburgh, MBTA vandal resistant fibreglass seats, updated paint exterior paint schemes of one form or another everywhere that kept them going.

What aspect of the CLRV interior makes you think of a dungeon?  That they're not that bright?  I thought that the CLRV interior split it down the middle quite well for a modern streetcar.  They weren't too dark but they weren't excessively bright inside at night like a SEPTA K car or a Flexity.  When the TTC did the A-15 PCC rebuild program, they actually went to quite a bit of lengths to match the interior colours of everything to the CLRVs and they were quite a bit darker than they had been with the orange seats and cream paint.  Add the warm colour balance of the incandescent lights to that and I thought the A-15s looked like a million bucks inside at night.

47 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

The Gloucesters had their moments, but I wonder how many fans remember high-rate operation? Only on Bloor-Danforth, and it was turned off in the summer of '80 if I recall. There were still occasionally trains in high rate in later years, mostly H2 and H4 it seems to me. I'm not sure I remember H5 in high rate, although they would have to have been, as they started on Bloor-Danforth in 1977, before the Spadina extension opened.

Also, in the days before next stop announcements and door beeping when they're ready to open, and beeping when they close, well it was a more peaceful time. Combine it with high rate operation, and you were across the city before you knew it.

Everything through the H6 had high rate available.  Keep in mind, there were compatibility issues in play since everything M1 through H6 could be mixed together so all of the cars had to be high rate capable in case the driving car had the rate switch turned turned up because everything in the train would have to perform to match.  My memories of high rate are all unofficial make up lost time on the North Yonge.  That used to happen occasionally if a train lost time in rush hour coming up through downtown, all of a sudden performance would mysteriously increase a lot north of Eglinton.  I think one of the aftermath items from the 1995 subway crash was the rate switch keys being taken away from drivers.  I don't remember any surprise fast trips north of Eglinton after that.  One of my friends from the states remembers talking to a subway driver in the 80s and the guy put the train in high rate between Summerhill and St. Clair to demonstrate it and put it back after that saying he shouldn't be doing that.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, 81-717 said:

Maybe not on the PCCs, but on the H1s the blue-green and cream is a very nice combination (it would also look good if you add the faux woodgrain, without woodgrain it does look more bland, but not in a bad way).

The H1 is alright. The M1s are decent too, I guess. Maybe I just really don't like the particular shade of blue-green used on 4684.

11 hours ago, 81-717 said:

I'm the opposite, I'm not a fan of those types of interiors (especially with wooden bodies or any interior components, such as window frames) because that just has 1920s (or earlier) vibes, and wooden bodies/interiors are like the stone age of transit evolution that make the G-cars look state-of-the-art top-of-the-line modern. Which is why it's very disappointing to think that the Soviet E-cars built in the 1960s & early 1970s weren't all that far off from that 1920s look.

Those Soviet cars looked great, I really dig this sort of vibe. The Peter Witts we had are not bad, either.

11 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

What aspect of the CLRV interior makes you think of a dungeon?  That they're not that bright?  I thought that the CLRV interior split it down the middle quite well for a modern streetcar.  They weren't too dark but they weren't excessively bright inside at night like a SEPTA K car or a Flexity.  When the TTC did the A-15 PCC rebuild program, they actually went to quite a bit of lengths to match the interior colours of everything to the CLRVs and they were quite a bit darker than they had been with the orange seats and cream paint.  Add the warm colour balance of the incandescent lights to that and I thought the A-15s looked like a million bucks inside at night.

It's mostly the colour of the interior walls, I think, which strike me less as being "colours" and more "40 years of built up brake dust". I'm no huge fan of the A-15 interiors, either, but I will say that the warmer lighting of those cars makes them a touch more inviting than the CLRVs.

If I had to choose a PCC from HCRR interior-wise, I'd go for W-30 honestly.

Anyway, so I don't make this solely into another post bellyaching about colours, here's some photos. This past Saturday I paid a visit to FIBA Canning in Scarborough, which people may remember as the company that was responsibly for removing the tanks from the 9400s when they received their midlife rebuild. For the last decade they've had, in their possession, a former TTC CNG Orion I demonstrator (9361), which then later became GO Transit 1714 and York University Shuttle YT-01. It's been out of service since 2011 for engine problems, but visually it's in decent shape. Amazingly clean for a vehicle that's been left unattended for 10 years, too. Not like sheds like 4684 that birds have made their home. Thanks go to FIBA for allowing me the visit, they were super nice about it.

51307276234_fa8e4aeb79_k.jpg

51306555571_24974ff9a5_k.jpg

51306555161_48a475649d_k.jpg

51306554976_1d4447fb5a_k.jpg

51306749033_30b69abae0_k.jpg

51305811892_07cb3541c0_k.jpg

51307273839_c3c56c209b_k.jpg

51306748048_8a2c7358b6_k.jpg

51306552481_cc1e547bc4_k.jpg

51305808917_81aa2ed53e_k.jpg

51306745203_994fc251d0_k.jpg

51307558410_6b127146da_k.jpg

51306549576_6817c8666c_k.jpg

51307267479_7b6c6e9fd3_k.jpg

51306741903_904e79ba26_k.jpg

51305804377_654e89920f_k.jpg

51305803932_fcee6a4bba_k.jpg

51306546281_809e37cc0a_k.jpg

51307265474_b2c16811d6_k.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Ed T. said:

The Gloucesters had their moments, but I wonder how many fans remember high-rate operation? Only on Bloor-Danforth, and it was turned off in the summer of '80 if I recall. There were still occasionally trains in high rate in later years, mostly H2 and H4 it seems to me. I'm not sure I remember H5 in high rate, although they would have to have been, as they started on Bloor-Danforth in 1977, before the Spadina extension opened.

Also, in the days before next stop announcements and door beeping when they're ready to open, and beeping when they close, well it was a more peaceful time. Combine it with high rate operation, and you were across the city before you knew it.

Before the 1995 subway accident, subway driving rules were there but in reality they were rather lenient in the daily operations, different drivers could have different driving habits. When there was a delay or something a driver could do high-rate operation but that mode was not turned off afterwards immediately so the train could remain in high-rate operation the following 1-2 days.  I could still remember on the B-D line lead car 5746 was in a high-rate mode on a Sunday afternoon, 2 days later on Tuesday lead car 5746 was still running like that by a different driver during afternoon rush hours.
 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

It's mostly the colour of the interior walls, I think, which strike me less as being "colours" and more "40 years of built up brake dust". I'm no huge fan of the A-15 interiors, either, but I will say that the warmer lighting of those cars makes them a touch more inviting than the CLRVs.

If I had to choose a PCC from HCRR interior-wise, I'd go for W-30 honestly.

You probably would have liked the 1970s HRB cars then because W-30-31 have the same interior paint as those did but minus the seats.  It's a shame there are no HRB cars around other than the two that've been sitting for ages at Lake Tahoe.  I don't know if the ones at the Thresher's Festival in the midwest US that ended up at Gomaco are still there.  When the TTC retired the HRB cars, they were condemning them for floor rot and/or body rot or catastrophic equipment breakdown and the cars in the worst condition would get pulled as soon as a new ALRV arrived or an A-15 rebuild came out of Hillcrest, so what was available to museums was in far from good condition.  Some of them were ok, at best, and might have had a chance in preservation but the lion's share of them were used up to the point of being completely finished by the time the TTC was done with them which kneecapped the idea of them landing in museums.

I always liked the A-15 cars when they were running plus in preservation, they all left in as-retired condition and have largely remained that way except for the ones that went to Kenosha.  Apart from that, they're pretty much unchanged from 1995 complete with the last set of advertising inside so they're like stepping into a time capsule.

2 hours ago, 6254 said:

Before the 1995 subway accident, subway driving rules were there but in reality they were rather lenient in the daily operations, different drivers could have different driving habits. When there was a delay or something a driver could do high-rate operation but that mode was not turned off afterwards immediately so the train could remain in high-rate operation the following 1-2 days.  I could still remember on the B-D line lead car 5746 was in a high-rate mode on a Sunday afternoon, 2 days later on Tuesday lead car 5746 was still running like that by a different driver during afternoon rush hours.
 

That's my memory of it too.  It wasn't frequent but it wasn't uncommon either for drivers to put trains into high rate to make up for lost time.  It's a night and day difference for sure between 1995-on and before the accident.  Things were incredibly lax before the accident happened.  One of the other things I remember that the crash caused to be discontinued was key by red signals to bring trains close together during rush hours.  Back in the late 1980s when subway ridership hit its peak and there were a ton of trains on the line, it was common to key by red signals and creep up pretty close behind the next train, especially northbound between Wellesley and Bloor.  The train ahead would start pulling out of Bloor and the train sitting right behind it would key by and begin pulling into the station just as the tail end of the train ahead was leaving the top end of the platform.  When the line was packed with trains in rush hour and a bunch of them began moving at once, being on a Gloucester was a neat experience because the lights would dim quite a bit and the air compressor or MG set depending on which car you were on would slow down as the train began moving.  You could see and hear the voltage drop on those cars that the peaks of rush hour power draw used to cause when a bunch of trains started up at once.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I much preferred the 4300s cream and olive interior to the light blue and dark blue of the 4400s. Most of the second-hand PCCs were somewhere on the olive and cream spectrum. The rebuilt interiors didn't do anything for me. Plus they took away the armrests and footrests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thinking more about high rate operation, it's been "about to come back" for ages now.  There was a plan in the late 1990s to go to high rate operation on Y-U-S once the fleet became all rebuilt H5s and T1s and the TTC even did an interesting power study in preparation for it.  It might still be on the commission reports website.  The big thrust of it was the reinstallation of a lot of negative return cabling from the track to the substations in a number of places on the oldest sections of the line.

Obviously that never panned out and then it got kicked down the road to maybe once it's all Toronto Rocket and fully ATO.  Steve Munro wrote a few articles about how the capacity gains the TTC was advertising depended on maxing out the capacity gains of Toronto Rockets + ATO + high rate.  We'll see what happens but I'm not optomistic.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

You probably would have liked the 1970s HRB cars then because W-30-31 have the same interior paint as those did but minus the seats.  It's a shame there are no HRB cars around other than the two that've been sitting for ages at Lake Tahoe.  I don't know if the ones at the Thresher's Festival in the midwest US that ended up at Gomaco are still there.  When the TTC retired the HRB cars, they were condemning them for floor rot and/or body rot or catastrophic equipment breakdown and the cars in the worst condition would get pulled as soon as a new ALRV arrived or an A-15 rebuild came out of Hillcrest, so what was available to museums was in far from good condition.  Some of them were ok, at best, and might have had a chance in preservation but the lion's share of them were used up to the point of being completely finished by the time the TTC was done with them which kneecapped the idea of them landing in museums.

I always liked the A-15 cars when they were running plus in preservation, they all left in as-retired condition and have largely remained that way except for the ones that went to Kenosha.  Apart from that, they're pretty much unchanged from 1995 complete with the last set of advertising inside so they're like stepping into a time capsule.

That's my memory of it too.  It wasn't frequent but it wasn't uncommon either for drivers to put trains into high rate to make up for lost time.  It's a night and day difference for sure between 1995-on and before the accident.  Things were incredibly lax before the accident happened.  One of the other things I remember that the crash caused to be discontinued was key by red signals to bring trains close together during rush hours.  Back in the late 1980s when subway ridership hit its peak and there were a ton of trains on the line, it was common to key by red signals and creep up pretty close behind the next train, especially northbound between Wellesley and Bloor.  The train ahead would start pulling out of Bloor and the train sitting right behind it would key by and begin pulling into the station just as the tail end of the train ahead was leaving the top end of the platform.  When the line was packed with trains in rush hour and a bunch of them began moving at once, being on a Gloucester was a neat experience because the lights would dim quite a bit and the air compressor or MG set depending on which car you were on would slow down as the train began moving.  You could see and hear the voltage drop on those cars that the peaks of rush hour power draw used to cause when a bunch of trains started up at once.

Key by red signal, sometimes 2 red signals, happened everyday before the 1995 accident. A hot spot was Coxwell station when a train driver finished a shift, the new driver didn't show up on time so the train could stay in the platform for over 10 minutes. The driver in behind became impatient so he could begin to key by the first red signal in the first 2 minutes of waiting, then the second red signal and got closer to the tail end of Coxwell station until he found enough room for the first door of his car to open so the driver, the guard (came from the 5th car) and passengers on lead car could "escape".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/12/2021 at 1:25 PM, Wayside Observer said:

The big thrust of it was the reinstallation of a lot of negative return cabling from the track to the substations in a number of places on the oldest sections of the line.

Why was the negative return cabling returned in the first place?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

Why was the negative return cabling returned in the first place?

That's what I could never figure out.

The power study report said that all this negative return cabling would need to be reinstalled but never said when or why it was removed.  Passing traction current return through the earth is seriously bad news because of what electrolytic corrosion does to every piece of underground utility infrastructure that's in the way so it never made sense to me why the TTC would go to the expense and trouble of removing it.  Something must have gotten confused between the technical staff and whoever wrote the report.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
21 hours ago, Orion V said:

There's no rides this season at this place it seems but the admission price is 50% as a result.

Hopefully next year they'll open the rides back up.

It's Ontario.

I don't know what else to say.

All of the American trolley museums I know of are open and giving rides.  I don't know of any south of the border that are closed or open but not giving rides.  Fort Edmonton Park is open and giving rides.  Semipro football is going in the US.  The Alberta Football League is playing.  The Maritime league is playing and so is Quebec.  Not Ontario.  Last year, a bunch of guys relocated to Quebec because they played but this year their league banned players from Ontario.  The end result was that a bunch of players from the Greater Toronto Area who were able to carpooled to Alberta once they opened up and the season got scheduled and a bunch of teams have got large benches stuffed with guys who relocated from Ontario for the summer in order to be able to play.

And that's pretty much the bottom line.  It's down to how Ontario clamped down on everything so hard for so long, everything got cancelled with very little getting reinstated this year and the result's been the broad cancellation of summer 2021 on top of summer 2020.  The football example is perfect:  If you want to do summer stuff, you can, just not here.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I find that today's trains feel slower on the Yonge line than the H cars. But is that due to better sound insulation and they dont hunt the tracks like the old cars used to? 

I do believe that northbound TR's have got to be the slowest of them all.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shaun said:

I find that today's trains feel slower on the Yonge line than the H cars. But is that due to better sound insulation and they dont hunt the tracks like the old cars used to? 

I do believe that northbound TR's have got to be the slowest of them all.

I believe it’s because the 6-car trainset or something is the reason behind it. I heard a few years back that the TRs are slower on inclines, but I don’t recall the specific reasoning. The married pairs (H series and T1s from my younger years) were definitely stronger in a 6-car trainset on an incline (Summerhill to St Clair quickly comes to mind)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bus_7246 said:

I believe it’s because the 6-car trainset or something is the reason behind it. I heard a few years back that the TRs are slower on inclines, but I don’t recall the specific reasoning. The married pairs (H series and T1s from my younger years) were definitely stronger in a 6-car trainset on an incline (Summerhill to St Clair quickly comes to mind)

Performance didn't change all that much between two, four, or six cars with the married pair cars.  They had load weighing, they had all axles powered, so going from a 4 car to a 6 car train didn't change much.  Same deal with 8 vs. 6 car Gloucesters.  They had no load weighing though so performance would go down as more people packed on in rush hour compared to lightly loaded during off peak times.  Anybody else remember the 8/6 and 6/4 stop markers under the platforms for the different length trains and car counts between the G and H cars?

Anyways, Toronto Rockets do have some unpowered axles but there is still enough horsepower installed on the train that it should be able to do it, so it's more a question of setup with those.  Someone told me several years ago that they thought the Toronto Rockets had purposely been detuned to run more slowly and save energy to be more green.  I have no idea if that's true or not and I'm deeply skeptical that that's the motivation behind the poor performance but wow, when you watch the lights in the tunnels pass by the side windows so slowly it's painful on those uphill runs, never mind COVID-19, you think you're going to die of old age before you get to Finch.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone remember the MCI classic that had an experimental paint scheme back around 1999/2000 or so.

It received the new livery but the back end remained white. I also think the front received a giant fleet number.

I think it was 6293 but I'm not sure if my memory is playing tricks with me and if this bus even existed. I cant find anything online.

Also does anyone know why 6742 had the 1990 CNG style interior complete with cream doors and different lighting? Was it manufactured like that?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...