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Bus Network Redesign


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2 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

There isn't a lot of positive responses on social media to the new network. A big question is going to be what the "silent majority" think. It's entirely possible the vast majority are happy with the changes. 

I personally don't think that will be the case. And although I supported the overall concept, I am wondering if service to the "suburbs" has been cut too much. 

And what actually defines "suburbs" for Edmonton?

Personally, I have some improvements during some time periods and it's worse and others, so I'm generally on the fence.

Yes -- lots of ranting on social media, BUT much of it might have more to do with trip planner shock than what we will see on day 1... the "incomplete data" issues definitely aren't helping! My hope is that the majority of the inflated trip times will be resolved once the actual route schedules are released. In any case, regardless of whether or not the initial rollout goes well, there will most likely be a number of changes made in the first 1-2 years based on customer feedback.

Living downtown I am very happy with the changes, but I 100% sympathize with those who live further out... I love the idea of high frequency service in the core, but I'm not sure if that type of service is the best fit for a city as decentralized as Edmonton. If I could make one change, I'd restore some of the suburban service at the expense of overall frequency but keep the consolidated and streamlined route network. Service issues or not, at very least the new system is significantly more user-friendly than the patchwork mess we have now.

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In that case I'll put up that shot of ETS #30 with your legs sticking out from under the bus. Caption: Martin cancels update after being thrown under the bus by multiple CPTDB members

There isn't a lot of positive responses on social media to the new network. A big question is going to be what the "silent majority" think. It's entirely possible the vast majority are happy with the

That's it! The one I was going to do for December is CANCELLED. 😆

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4 hours ago, Catherine Wilkins said:

Using a pen, paper and exercising your brain was fun.  I miss those days.

I still plan my trips in that manner and am eagerly looking forward to individual route maps and schedules online. Even when I worked for ETS and everyone had resorted to using the trip planner, I still used  Brain, Paper and Pen and had a trip planned before the computer could spit out several poor options.

I have already planned out some future trips, but need the online schedules to 'connect' my trip plan routes. Some of my friends are already asking me for trip planning advice, so at the moment I can only give them the routes and where to transfer.

Edit: Schedules are online now, in brochure format. Perhaps the schedule lookup tool is not far behind.  https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/new-bus-routes.aspx

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A few years back I lived in an area of Millwoods. During the day there was a bus a block from my house, that was somewhat convenient. But 2 blocks aways was the Lakewood terminal, and I found it annoying that so many buses would run from Mill Woods to Millgate, and follow similar routing, I also found most of the buses to be empty or almost empty. Some days I would see 3 buses in a row, usually an 8 a 15 and then the 81 that would go to my area and between them there was 10 people. Hardly worth running all those buses for 10 people. Same in the north end, where I worked. I would take the 15 to Eaux Claires and after we left Northgate there would only ever be 3-4 people on with me on a 60 foot bus, and we would usually be right in front or behind the 9, and then we would have 1-2 other buses all running from Northgate. Again with less then 10 people between all of the buses. 

I get that in rush hour things are different. But outside of rush hours it was not necessary. For whatever reason the city of Edmonton loves building Transit Centres, and to justify building them they needlessly expanded so many routes to service them. Lewis Farms was the worst example as WEM was already an overcrowded transit centre and then they extended routes to service Lewis Farms. Hopefully when the LRT goes to Lewis Farms the city then creates a better network or buses in that area. 

I have heard but it is not confirmed that a lot of these changes are part of a much larger plan. As in when the LRT runs to Mill Woods the bus service in that area will be modified to move off of certain roads and to feed the trains. Also Millgate and Lakewood will both be closing. The other part of the puzzle is when the LRT extends to WEM and Lewis farms a lot of routes will be changed again to feed the trains better and a lot of routes will not run into downtown from the West end. Most will stop at Lewis Farms and WEM. The other big thing I have heard is in terms of the regional transit, originally ETS was going to only upload some of the runs to cover parts of the regional routes, and then once the full network is up and operating ETS was going to upload all of the service to the regional system. I suspect the changes will not happen as planned due to Strathcona pulling out of the regional system. Lets hope that in a couple years everyone that decided not to enter into the regional system will change there mind, then ETS can upload all routes into the regional network and drastically improve service. 

I was thinking long before the talk of a network redesign and a regional system that both Edmonton and Calgary should go the translink route. Translink is very much a regional system that covers a wide area of the greater Vancouver area and transit is mostly seamless from the suburbs to downtown Vancouver. Hopefully Strathcona and Leduc I believe was the other one see that and join in eventually, because it is going to be necessary in a few years to have a better network across the Edmonton area and at that point I think the routes will be better. I am wondering if this is growing pains right now and part of a larger picture, or if Edmonton is really just not focused on trying to make things better for everyone. Only time will tell I guess

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23 minutes ago, brianc1981 said:

Hopefully Strathcona and Leduc I believe was the other one see that and join in eventually

Leduc is part of the EMTSC, it's Sherwood Park and Morinville not part of the plan, and Morinville pulled out due to funding issues thanks to Covid

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1 hour ago, brianc1981 said:

A few years back I lived in an area of Millwoods. During the day there was a bus a block from my house, that was somewhat convenient. But 2 blocks aways was the Lakewood terminal, and I found it annoying that so many buses would run from Mill Woods to Millgate, and follow similar routing, I also found most of the buses to be empty or almost empty. Some days I would see 3 buses in a row, usually an 8 a 15 and then the 81 that would go to my area and between them there was 10 people.

Sounds like you lived very close to where I used to be.

1 hour ago, brianc1981 said:

I have heard but it is not confirmed that a lot of these changes are part of a much larger plan. As in when the LRT runs to Mill Woods the bus service in that area will be modified to move off of certain roads and to feed the trains.

This has already happened, and was a part of the BNR. A few of the Mill Woods routes have gone from a North/ South, Mill Woods TC/ Millgate scheme to a East/ West, Meadows/ West Mill Woods scheme. 38 Ave will become a busy interchange point between routes: 503, 507 serving Southgate, 509 ring route, 508, and the LRT/ 510X.

I don't believe the 507 will serve Davies once Millgate closes. Not sure about the 503.

1 hour ago, brianc1981 said:

Also Millgate and Lakewood will both be closing.

Lakewood, no. Technically it's been a major off road bus stop since MWTC opened. ETS never removed it from maps however. It grew in importance a bit when the 78 and 79 only operated to Lakewood, and the peak 66's that terminate there, and for some time, peak route 8's. About 75% of the bays will still be in used at Lakewood.

Millgate is of course a stop gap until Davies opens. 

1 hour ago, brianc1981 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, brookiedbj said:

Leduc is part of the EMTSC, it's Sherwood Park and Morinville not part of the plan, and Morinville pulled out due to funding issues thanks to Covid

Leduc County pulled out as well. Not sure how that's going to work with local routes. And this is despite Beaumont, Leduc, and Devon all being apart of the EMTSC.

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23 hours ago, Catherine Wilkins said:

One of the reasons for discontinuing the BBC's was the increase in jaywalking

People still jaywalk, that wasn't it. A lot of old myths were trotted out by ETS and CoE to kill off the trolleys, plus the dream to replace the trolleys with hybrids (like that worked out well). Takes a lot of pride, dedication, finesse and teamwork to operate a successful trolley system, something the powers that be at the time couldn't be bothered to do.

Some good info here.. http://www.trolleycoalition.org/media/

Also a great article here.  http://www.econogics.com/ev/Edmonton Trolleys.pdf

Plus Don Iveson clearly hits the nail on the head with this snippet / statement taken from a link in the above pdf.

[ I generally give the benefit of the doubt to our civil servants, but this is one instance where I have to confess that they clearly started with a firm position against trolleys, and worked backwards to construct an argument around that conclusion.

A thorough and open-minded analysis (a fair fight) might ultimately have convinced me that a trolley system was the wrong fit for Edmonton’s future, but we didn’t get that. ]

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20 hours ago, Catherine Wilkins said:

Expecting someone to plan your trip might lead to disappointment unfortunately.  Making sure you leave enough time between connections, will return positive results.

I spent 18 out of 22 years planning trips. The only thing that was disappointing was the scheduling. The inevitable scenario where the connection is by a minute or two (one red light too many and you're hooped), or missed altogether and wait 30 or 60 minutes.  Having to tell someone I can get you there an hour early or 30 minutes late is not what they want to hear.  It is not always possible to 'leave enough time between connections'. If your first bus and your connecting bus are both on 30 minute headways, leaving a half hour earlier or later won't make a difference connection-wise.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Stop 1933 NB on 124 Street and 108 Ave has the route 3 & 5 ending April 24 and underneath that states the route 3 Starts April 25, 2021.  There are several signs along 124 Street with errors. Doesn't give one much confidence in the relaunch with so many errors even before it starts.

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LOAD AND GO

April 26th, 2021.  The 500X and 510X will be the workhorses out of Mill Woods.  "What If" planning I'm sure is in place.  For example, have a few 510X's waiting at Millgate.  Planners require an enormous amount of THANKS for creating the 500X (NON-STOP Meadows to Downtown).  The routing is excellent.

September 01st ?, 2021.  University of Alberta students returning?  920X (NON-STOP Lewis Farms to WEM to UofA) is what's needed.  Still use the South Campus TC to enter 114 Street NB.  Create a 790X (NON-STOP Leger to UofA).  Create a 590X (NON-STOP MWTC to UofA).  Yes, I am aware of something called the SLRT, however most people do not know the SLRT is overcrowded.  Passengers at Southgate I'm sure would appreciate riding the SLRT to the UofA.

Creating lots of NON-STOP Service to the UofA    MIGHT    finally convince students and staff to park their cars.

Eliminating the need to transfer at South Campus TC, would be an added bonus.  Synchronize the traffic signals on 114 Street NB better for buses.

Notice to Members ... please do not quote finding fault with my thoughts, think up your own original thoughts only please.  Thank you very much.

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1 hour ago, Catherine Wilkins said:

 Create a 790X (NON-STOP Leger to UofA).  

Something along these lines was planned as part of putting a busway on the Terwilliger expressway project, specifically using at least some electric buses. Not sure what will become of it however due to the Provincial funding cuts and adjusted scope of the Terwilliger project. We can hope though.

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6 hours ago, Catherine Wilkins said:

Planners require an enormous amount of THANKS for creating the 500X (NON STOP Meadows to Downtown).

Isn't the existing 90 a Downtown to Meadows express?  I'll admit I haven't looked at the new route, but I remember seeing the 90 to Meadows when I was catching my express home.  Not that I've taken transit in an entire year now though since COVID and working from home became a thing.

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39 minutes ago, awstott said:

Isn't the existing 90 a Downtown to Meadows express?  I'll admit I haven't looked at the new route, but I remember seeing the 90 to Meadows when I was catching my express home.  Not that I've taken transit in an entire year now though since COVID and working from home became a thing.

Yes, the 500x is the replacement for the 90, with minor changes to the express stops and the Downtown routing.

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I do find some of the changes to be absurd beyond my comprehension, l completely don't understand the rationale of the disintegration of route 10 and creation of this piggy tail route 123 that does not even run 7 days a week. this route 123 should run from Coliseum to Eaux Claires via 82 Street and 153 Avenue.  Then the over congregation of routes on 137 avenue, leaving only one part time service on 135 Avenue which is most likely going to be served by the smaller Vicinity bus since it is the inheritance of the 303.  I even checked the schedules of the new 52 and 54, for westbound trips leaving Northgate, one leaves at 12 and 42 minutes after the hour, and other one at 13 and 43 minutes after the hour.  Can they at least run them 15 minutes apart, not 1 minute apart and 29 minutes without service?  The imbalances between over concentration and no service at all are happening everywhere, the Saddleback Road between 23 Avenue and 111 Street will lose all service, and yet 23 Avenue has so many routes bunched together.  One FB question asked the rationale of terminating the 7 at CN tower, ETS responded by saying transit planer determined that the downtown core would be very congested if all buses use the same roads.  But if it is really for that cause, the new 7 should really be interlined with the new 1 and run as a crosstown frequent service from WEM to Capilano, the downtown portion runs on 104 Avenue, 95 Street, Rowland Road, Dawson Bridge.  Keep them as two routes so one does the 1A looping pattern and one does the 1B looping pattern, give them 20 minutes interval individually so that the combined frequency is 10 minutes.  Lastly community routes that travel long distances but very little displacement, among the multiple routes that run between CP and Leger, at least one can be extended to WEM or Lewis Farm via Anthony Handay.

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