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GRT fare increase?


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Looks like GRT's going to increase their fares again. Although I couldn't find the link from The Record, it states that fares will probably go up. According to this article, it says 1 in 3 people taking the bus are students or low income earners. This is not good. If GRT wants to attract riders, they need to work with the cities, and make parking very expensive in downtown areas. I parking's more expensive, more people will take the bus and GRT will make more money. This is basically another tax on the poor. Any comments or suggestions at how we can prevent this from happening.

Cheers

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Looks like GRT's going to increase their fares again. Although I couldn't find the link from The Record, it states that fares will probably go up. According to this article, it says 1 in 3 people taking the bus are students or low income earners. This is not good. If GRT wants to attract riders, they need to work with the cities, and make parking very expensive in downtown areas. I parking's more expensive, more people will take the bus and GRT will make more money. This is basically another tax on the poor. Any comments or suggestions at how we can prevent this from happening.

Cheers

They must be anticipating the worker's contract coming to an end this year. I know that safety for drivers and passengers is something that has been neglected for a long time and will cost alot to get a program in place. Also those 1.5 hour transfers are a joke. They might as well just have a free ride system. If they revamped the transfer system so that abuse was not so rampant and supported the drivers when they were trying to collect proper fares the revenue would rise and there may not be a need to increase fares.
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They must be anticipating the worker's contract coming to an end this year. I know that safety for drivers and passengers is something that has been neglected for a long time and will cost alot to get a program in place. Also those 1.5 hour transfers are a joke. They might as well just have a free ride system. If they revamped the transfer system so that abuse was not so rampant and supported the drivers when they were trying to collect proper fares the revenue would rise and there may not be a need to increase fares.

There are the points you mentioned, but also The Record stated that subsidies for transit in Waterloo Region are the highest in the Province. 60% of the costs of GRT are subsidies, only 40% is covered by revenue. Next in line came Brampton at like 52% or something like that. Do I think raising fares will help? Probably not, I don't think it will make a difference. You raise fares, maybe lose a few riders then put in system expansion, the subsidy is probably going to go up, not down with a fare hike.

Then again, even with a fare hike, we'll still be cheaper than the TTC :)

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Waterloo Service Improvments, and there was an article in the newspaper today that the GRT is now looking into a place to put an INDOOR Terminal in Hespeler.

Makes sense rather having bus stops on a street corner.

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Waterloo Service Improvments, and there was an article in the newspaper today that the GRT is now looking into a place to put an INDOOR Terminal in Hespeler.

Indoor terminal? really? what newspaper? :) GRT needs a strategy of luring people our of their cars and onto buses. More frequencies should be added on routes bringing people downtown and back to the suburbs during the rush hours.

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GRT faces the same image problems as every other mass transit system. It would be interesting to know if the VIVA system is viewed differently by the general public than the normaly YRT system is. Perhaps if GRT started to use identifiably-better busses on the iXpress route, then middle-class passengers would be lured (on the premise that they would 'suffer' with the non-iXpress bus for only a short ride to the iXpress route).

Chances are, however, that this makes neither economic nor practical sense.

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I haven't heard anything about the fare increase but some rumours that have been floating around are service expansion.

Grand River Transit is looking to operate 24 hour service on select routes. I've also heard that the iXpress will run until midnight, come september. I'd imagine it will begin operating on weekends as well.

Take what I said as a rumour, as I'm not 100% certain. Just things that I heard around the rumour mill.

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Waterloo Service Improvments, and there was an article in the newspaper today that the GRT is now looking into a place to put an INDOOR Terminal in Hespeler.

I haven't seen such an article?? :) However, since GRT revamped bus services in Hespeler they've been looking at another arrangement for the Hespeler Terminal. GRT was preparing to tender out construction of a terminal platform at the Cambridge Shopper Mall, then at the last minute the Mall went up for sale, and the owners told GRT to stop all work pending the outcome of the sale (not like anything was happening on-site anyways), needless to say the terminal never appeared (I was working at GRT during the time of this whole little ordeal). I'm not sure about an "indoor" terminal, but at least an off-road terminal like GRT was originally planning would be nice.

GRT faces the same image problems as every other mass transit system. It would be interesting to know if the VIVA system is viewed differently by the general public than the normaly YRT system is. Perhaps if GRT started to use identifiably-better busses on the iXpress route, then middle-class passengers would be lured (on the premise that they would 'suffer' with the non-iXpress bus for only a short ride to the iXpress route).

Chances are, however, that this makes neither economic nor practical sense.

Doesn't matter anyways, GRT can use Nova LFS buses for the iXpress for as long as they want. Once portions of the new Rapid Transit line begin appearing (proposed for 2010, but we'll see) the iXpress will start being dismantled, short-turning at the end of the new rapid transit line as portions of the line open for revenue service.`

I haven't heard anything about the fare increase but some rumours that have been floating around are service expansion.

Grand River Transit is looking to operate 24 hour service on select routes. I've also heard that the iXpress will run until midnight, come september. I'd imagine it will begin operating on weekends as well.

Take what I said as a rumour, as I'm not 100% certain. Just things that I heard around the rumour mill.

It was in The Record last week about the fare increase, it will be included in the Region's upcoming budget deliberations. As for service expansion, what's been confirmed so far is that Waterloo Area Routes will be redone between this year and 2009. I would bet that's not all the service improvements we will see in that time though. Demand for more iXpress service is a big issue, that will need to be addressed. Right now the iXpress isn't very convenient, GRT needs to start thinking of the iXpress as the precursor to Rapid Transit, and as the backbone of the transit system.

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I'm not sure about an "indoor" terminal, but at least an off-road terminal like GRT was originally planning would be nice.

I'm beginning to think people got the wrong idea :) By Indoor terminal, I or "they" Ment an indoor building for passengers !! The article was part of a long list of other things the city wants to get done, such as the restructuring of Main and Concession St. Bridge and a facelift of Queens Square

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I haven't heard anything about the fare increase but some rumours that have been floating around are service expansion.

Grand River Transit is looking to operate 24 hour service on select routes. I've also heard that the iXpress will run until midnight, come september. I'd imagine it will begin operating on weekends as well.

Take what I said as a rumour, as I'm not 100% certain. Just things that I heard around the rumour mill.

iXpress service both in the evening, and on weekends, would be greatly enjoyed by me, as well as the people who wait at iXpress stops on the weekend without realizing that they'll be waiting for a very long time. It was only today, in fact, when I walked into the Laurier iXpress stop, and asked the person waiting there how long it would be until the next bus. Upon them saying that they didn't know, I told them that it would come on Monday morning.

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I'm beginning to think people got the wrong idea :P By Indoor terminal, I or "they" Ment an indoor building for passengers !! The article was part of a long list of other things the city wants to get done, such as the restructuring of Main and Concession St. Bridge and a facelift of Queens Square

What? Something wrong with the Tim Horton's on the corner there? :)

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What? Something wrong with the Tim Horton's on the corner there? :P

lol, now it makes sense. I think that it would be more efficient to increase frequencies on the ixpress aswell as expand hours. If GRT increases ixpress frequencies to 10 minutes during rush hours and 20 minutes during the day, I think people will start to use the system more often. If people can only wait for 20 minutes, I think that they'll start taking it. All that it needs is to increase frequency, aswell as operating hours.

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But are they extra? My impression is that there are maybe three or five busses for expansion, and the rest for replacement. Am I confusing this with a different system maybe?

You're very correct. I can't rmemeber the exact figure but if I remember correctly, the norm has been 5-7 buses for expansion each year.

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But are they extra? My impression is that there are maybe three or five busses for expansion, and the rest for replacement. Am I confusing this with a different system maybe?

True, but wasn't there a rumor that GRT was going to purchase an additional 20 or so buses ontop of the 20 already on order?

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True, but wasn't there a rumor that GRT was going to purchase an additional 20 or so buses ontop of the 20 already on order?

I just poured through the budget report for the proposed GRT service expansions, and it says GRT will require an additional 2 or 4* buses to be ordered in addition to the 20 that have already been ordered (8 expansion buses/12 replacement buses). Because of the time required betwen the order of and delivery of the buses, 2 or 4* buses that are scheduled for retirement this year will be maintained in service until 4 new buses are ordered and arrive at GRT.

*2 Buses will be ordered for sure. If GRT convinces the University of Waterloo to implement a UPASS program (similar to Wilfred Laurier's UPASS Program) than 4 buses will be ordered to provide additional services to University Students.

ANYWAYS HERE'S THE REPORT INCLUDES LOTS OF GOODIES...GRT 2007-2010 Budget Info (PDF File)

Some thing of note from the report...

- More iXpress service incuding Evenings, Saturdays and Sundays

- More service on routes 7, 8, 13

- Improving schedule adherence on Routes 10, 16

- Replace Route 72 busPLUS Cherry Blossom with full size bus

- Additional service on Route 21 St. Jacobs (but doesn't say when, or how long)

- Increase cash fare from $2.25 to $2.50

- Increase ticket price by 5 cents

- Increase Monthly pass prices by $1.00

All this is subject to budget approval of course! <_<

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I just poured through the budget report for the proposed GRT service expansions, and it says GRT will require an additional 2 or 4* buses to be ordered in addition to the 20 that have already been ordered (8 expansion buses/12 replacement buses). Because of the time required betwen the order of and delivery of the buses, 2 or 4* buses that are scheduled for retirement this year will be maintained in service until 4 new buses are ordered and arrive at GRT.

*2 Buses will be ordered for sure. If GRT convinces the University of Waterloo to implement a UPASS program (similar to Wilfred Laurier's UPASS Program) than 4 buses will be ordered to provide additional services to University Students.

ANYWAYS HERE'S THE REPORT INCLUDES LOTS OF GOODIES...GRT 2007-2010 Budget Info (PDF File)

Some thing of note from the report...

- More iXpress service incuding Evenings, Saturdays and Sundays

- More service on routes 7, 8, 13

- Improving schedule adherence on Routes 10, 16

- Replace Route 72 busPLUS Cherry Blossom with full size bus

- Additional service on Route 21 St. Jacobs (but doesn't say when, or how long)

- Increase cash fare from $2.25 to $2.50

- Increase ticket price by 5 cents

- Increase Monthly pass prices by $1.00

All this is subject to budget approval of course! :)

Thanks for the info. Although the cash fare is increasing, I think it will make more people purchase tickets. This will result in more trips taken by transit. Would the Ixpress be running 30 minute frequencies during the weekend or 1 hour frequencies. Also, will the replacement buses be replacing the '89's and '90's? How many are left, because there isn't a website stating GRT current fleet.

I think that GRT needs a real strategy at getting the average suburban homeowner out of their cars and onto buses. Does anyone think that these transit improvements will increase ridership, or just turn people away from transit because of the increased fares? I think that GRT needs to increase frequency on routes such as 22, 15, 26 and 16. Once people see that buses are running more frequently, they'd probably use it.

Any opinions?

john

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Thanks for the info. Although the cash fare is increasing, I think it will make more people purchase tickets. This will result in more trips taken by transit. Would the Ixpress be running 30 minute frequencies during the weekend or 1 hour frequencies. Also, will the replacement buses be replacing the '89's and '90's? How many are left, because there isn't a website stating GRT current fleet.

I think that GRT needs a real strategy at getting the average suburban homeowner out of their cars and onto buses. Does anyone think that these transit improvements will increase ridership, or just turn people away from transit? I think that GRT needs to increase frequency on routes such as 22, 15, 26 and 16. Once people see that buses are running more frequently, they'd probably use it.

Any opinions?

john

Just out of curiosity, do you post in order to gain knowledge or do you post just to be heard?

The reason I ask is because of questions such as "Does anyone think that these transit improvements will increase ridership, or just turn people away from transit?"

Occasionally, I read stupid things on here, like "OC Transpo should convert to a trolley operation because it would increase capacity". Congratulations, you've made the list for March.

Maybe it was just your choice of words, I'm not sure. An improvement is a positive and in this scenario, if it turns people away, then its not an improvement.

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Just out of curiosity, do you post in order to gain knowledge or do you post just to be heard?

The reason I ask is because of questions such as "Does anyone think that these transit improvements will increase ridership, or just turn people away from transit?"

Occasionally, I read stupid things on here, like "OC Transpo should convert to a trolley operation because it would increase capacity". Congratulations, you've made the list for March.

Maybe it was just your choice of words, I'm not sure. An improvement is a positive and in this scenario, if it turns people away, then its not an improvement.

I ask these question to gain knowledge, not to be heard. Firstly, with fare increases occuring so much lately due to increased gas prices and operating costs, many people willing to try transit won't because with fares being increased, it's cheaper to just take a car to you destination. What I meant was that people would be turned away because of the higher fares, not the improved service. I'm not that stupid. Also, why would I want to be heard that badly? Maybe consider that people may make some "typos" from time to time.

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I ask these question to gain knowledge, not to be heard. Firstly, with fare increases occuring so much lately due to increased gas prices and operating costs, many people willing to try transit won't because with fares being increased, it's cheaper to just take a car to you destination. What I meant was that people would be turned away because of the higher fares, not the improved service. I'm not that stupid. Also, why would I want to be heard that badly? Maybe consider that people may make some "typos" from time to time.

Firstly, it is never cheaper to "just take a car", provided you remain within the Regional limits and locations that are serviced by transit. More convenient? Definitely. Cheaper? No.

I see what you're saying now that you've clarified. Perhaps you should be more clear next time.

My opinion on your question: If someone is going to try transit instead of the car, taking the bus once isn't really much of a trial, so the extra $0.25 that they're charged, I would imagine won't be enough to turn them off. If they decide to do a longer trial such as a month, then the extra dollar that they spend on the pass also won't make or break them. That is my very logical opinion, I would hope most people would share.

The problem is, people are too self centred and don't look at things from the right perspective. Most would think "I'm paying an extra $0.25 but route 6 hasn't been improved and I'm not seeing any benefit from it."

The thing is, the extra money and improvements benefit the system as a whole and eventually in due time, all necessary improvements are made.

I'm not sure why you'd want to be heard that badly, but you tend to post a lot, often repeating things in threads.

As for making "typos": A typo is "an error in printed or typewritten matter resulting from striking the improper key of a keyboard," according to dictionary.com. Just like how you forgot to include an "s" at the end of "question". The question that you asked was simply poorly worded.

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I see what you're saying now that you've clarified. Perhaps you should be more clear next time.

I'm not sure why you'd want to be heard that badly, but you tend to post a lot, often repeating things in threads.

As for making "typos": A typo is "an error in printed or typewritten matter resulting from striking the improper key of a keyboard," according to dictionary.com. Just like how you forgot to include an "s" at the end of "question". The question that you asked was simply poorly worded.

Sorry about being unclear. I'll check my spelling more often to prevent these mistakes, as it seems to bother you a lot. I don't want to be heard, I just want to take in more knowledge regarding transit. Sorry for repeating things. Don't worry, I'll check my posts more often, and make sure that nothing I post will bother anyone :)

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