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2019/2020 Double-Decker bus Procurement


Express691

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With the horrendous crash of a Alexander Dennis in Ottawa, it's clearly evident that the crash worthiness especially of the upper deck appears to be lacking.  I wonder if translink has approached the manufacturer with concerns?  I for one have always been an upper deck front row person, but no more as your legs are obviously sacrificial in a minor accident.   Also, why are there no seat belts for the front row passengers on the upper deck?  I maybe the only one, but It seems Alexander Dennis should seriously consider product improvement in the form of greater structural strength of the upper deck forward cabin.  Just sayin!

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Also just saying, I have heard reports that the operator in that incident did have another accident in the previous month.

19 minutes ago, YVR said:

Also, why are there no seat belts for the front row passengers on the upper deck?  I maybe the only one, but It seems Alexander Dennis should seriously consider product improvement in the form of greater structural strength of the upper deck forward cabin.  Just sayin!

Not sure if this is correct, but I think the seatbelt thing is up to CMBC to decide, not ADL. I do agree on the structural integrity of the upper deck. Perhaps a change in bus shelter design might also be taken into account so that it doesn't slice into the upper deck.

Nonetheless, the accident should shed some light into future operations.

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https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4977406

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6 hours ago, YVR said:

With the horrendous crash of a Alexander Dennis in Ottawa, it's clearly evident that the crash worthiness especially of the upper deck appears to be lacking.  I wonder if translink has approached the manufacturer with concerns?  I for one have always been an upper deck front row person, but no more as your legs are obviously sacrificial in a minor accident.   Also, why are there no seat belts for the front row passengers on the upper deck?  I maybe the only one, but It seems Alexander Dennis should seriously consider product improvement in the form of greater structural strength of the upper deck forward cabin.  Just sayin!

The structure is light to keep the centre of mass low, otherwise you’ll just be treating rollover casualties instead. Not saying I like it, but you can’t cheat physics.

5 hours ago, Express691 said:

Also just saying, I have heard reports that the operator in that incident did have another accident in the previous month.

She did. Allegedly one extra collision beyond the crash you cited on December 10th as well. She was also still on new employee probation, so what the hell she was doing behind the wheel after two crashes is beyond my comprehension.

Seatbelts are a double edged sword in a lot of instances, and can dramatically increase evacuation times in the event of a fire, for example. Seat securement devices are only effective as long as the seats stay mounted to the bus itself, which was not the case here.

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2 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

The structure is light to keep the centre of mass low, otherwise you’ll just be treating rollover casualties instead. Not saying I like it, but you can’t cheat physics.

She did. Allegedly one extra collision beyond the crash you cited on December 10th as well. She was also still on new employee probation, so what the hell she was doing behind the wheel after two crashes is beyond my comprehension 

The only form of extra “protection” there is the two bars on the edge but those are really just for protecting the bus from trees, not damage of that level. Perhaps translink can look into stronger bars that could take a higher impact but in OC Transpo’s case nothing would of prevented that 

because OC is currently in a tough spot for service levels due to construction and detours for the LRT they’re on a hire to fire basis upon completion of the LRT and I have a huge feeling this is a case of they can’t afford lose an operator. The accident she was in was likely a preventable.. i personally can’t see how she managed to jack-knife the bus and smack into a hybrid but not body was hurt and transit deemed she was fit for service after whatever discipline happened 

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Something that I noticed when I saw photos of the recent Ottawa bus incident was how the bus shelter protruded out and ended up being much stronger than the bus frame... It essentially gouged right through the side of the bus on impact. In hindsight, they should have taken that into account and made the canopy higher than the bus or in such a way that it compresses on impact.

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2 hours ago, Millennium2002 said:

Something that I noticed when watching footage of the recent Ottawa bus incident was how the bus shelter seemed to be stronger than the bus frame... I feel like they should have made it higher or weaker.

Certainly they’ve had plenty of time to learn from past mistakes.....or not.

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It’ll come out in the class action lawsuit and/or coroner’s inquest. 

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  • 1 month later...

With Translink moving towards a greener fleet, I imagine the double deckers will be among the last orders for diesel buses, which makes me wonder... are there any alternative green fuels when it comes to DDs? I assume battery electric and CNG would be too tall and top-heavy if they put batteries/tanks on top like with standard buses, unless there is some other configuration (either hypothetical or real) that I haven't heard of before. Perhaps hybrid could be an option, but as has been discussed regarding the XDE60s, those aren't as useful on the long highway routes the buses would be doing.

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44 minutes ago, ThatBusGuy said:

With Translink moving towards a greener fleet, I imagine the double deckers will be among the last orders for diesel buses, which makes me wonder... are there any alternative green fuels when it comes to DDs? I assume battery electric and CNG would be too tall and top-heavy if they put batteries/tanks on top like with standard buses, unless there is some other configuration (either hypothetical or real) that I haven't heard of before. Perhaps hybrid could be an option, but as has been discussed regarding the XDE60s, those aren't as useful on the long highway routes the buses would be doing.

Alexander Dennis has produced ISBe/BAE hybrid Enviro500s in the past few years, so I don't see why they couldn't again if requested.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 12:18 PM, buizelbus said:

I've heard from several senior RTC drivers that the double deckers should be arriving beginning in May 2019.

I hope the deckers will be delivered within this year, I'm looking forward to see them on Highway 99~~

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On 3/3/2019 at 12:05 PM, Meraki said:

Alexander Dennis has produced ISBe/BAE hybrid Enviro500s in the past few years, so I don't see why they couldn't again if requested.

 

im pretty sure Translink plans to continue ordering diesels for all suburban buses, a report i read from them said they want to be 80% alternative energy / 20% diesel

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11 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

I'm just hoping they aren't going to put Aries seats in the DDs. USSC makes the GT Transit which would be better suited for suburban buses and they can come with seat belts.

I think the best seats for the double deckers would be the upper deck ones on 1008. They were reclinable, well padded, better than many airline seats and coach bus seats. Not sure what seat model it is called.

TransLink CMBC (demo) Alexander Dennis Enviro500 R1008

 

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6 hours ago, anyfong said:

I think the best seats for the double deckers would be the upper deck ones on 1008. They were reclinable, well padded, better than many airline seats and coach bus seats. Not sure what seat model it is called.

TransLink CMBC (demo) Alexander Dennis Enviro500 R1008

 

Looks like from American Seating~~

To be honest, I prefer USSC GT Transit as well for the seat provider for the double decker, apparently I don't like those USSC Aries seats on the Novas, no reclining to compare with the old Orions~~

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This post could either go here or the service discussion thread:

Received an email a couple days ago in regards of the 620 and its use of artics in the future. The 60-foot artics currently used on the 620 will be replaced THIS FALL with double-deckers that will be equipped with 88 seats and additional room for 13 standees. No info on luggage racks or the type of seats as someone asked earlier.

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4 hours ago, 8010 said:

This post could either go here or the service discussion thread:

Received an email a couple days ago in regards of the 620 and its use of artics in the future. The 60-foot artics currently used on the 620 will be replaced THIS FALL with double-deckers that will be equipped with 88 seats and additional room for 13 standees. No info on luggage racks or the type of seats as someone asked earlier.

well that resolves the issue of where we're going to get additional artics for September's B-Line implementations.

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1 hour ago, cleowin said:

well that resolves the issue of where we're going to get additional artics for September's B-Line implementations.

620 only runs 4 buses M-Thu, 5 on (most) fridays. 

Let's hope this means that deckers dont count towards D60LF replacement. I guess it all makes sense now that the luggage racks were installed on the oldest artics.

Edited by Express691
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15 hours ago, Express691 said:

620 only runs 4 buses M-Thu, 5 on (most) fridays. 

Let's hope this means that deckers dont count towards D60LF replacement. I guess it all makes sense now that the luggage racks were installed on the oldest artics.

I believe the 620 runs 6 buses on weekends.

Judging by the wording of the email it sounds like the double-deckers that will be used on the 620 will be D60LF replacements but I'm not too sure, I guess we'll find out in September.

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On 3/9/2019 at 9:55 PM, Express691 said:

620 only runs 4 buses M-Thu, 5 on (most) fridays. 

Let's hope this means that deckers dont count towards D60LF replacement. I guess it all makes sense now that the luggage racks were installed on the oldest artics.

The luggage racks predate the decker order by almost a year. 

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On 3/9/2019 at 4:09 PM, 8010 said:

This post could either go here or the service discussion thread:

Received an email a couple days ago in regards of the 620 and its use of artics in the future. The 60-foot artics currently used on the 620 will be replaced THIS FALL with double-deckers that will be equipped with 88 seats and additional room for 13 standees. No info on luggage racks or the type of seats as someone asked earlier.

If it indeed is 88 seats, based on the brochure, looks like it'll likely be the 57-seat option for the upper deck with no recline, and the 31-seat option for the lower deck (including 6 backwards-facing seats). If that's the case, it doesn't look like there will be any space for luggage racks, unless they remove some 4-6 seats. Theoretically the can order the one-door version and use the space there for luggage racks, but I don't see this as likely.

Brochure: https://www.alexander-dennis.com/media/71946/enviro500-north-america-spec.pdf

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