Detroit Diesel Series 50 question

[Guest]

I have questions regarding the Detroit Diesel Series 50 engine

Are the Series 50 and Series 50 EGR the same or different?
 

Do they not last longer than other engines?

Why are there more Series 50 buses in Western Canada than Eastern Canada, Is it because of no salt on the roads?

These were my questions

[OC Transpo/STO Fan]

The only difference is the exhaust gas recirculation system in the EGR version. It was revised for EPA 2004, but was made starting in 2000. They are otherwise the exact same engine, except for HP and torque differences, which do not matter. You can get both S50 versions with the 250, 275, or the 320 HP option. So it's just the EGR system, basically.

[LegoNovaLFS2001]

Regarding the East/West thing, Companies like Calgary Transit and CMBC/Translink had ordered a large amount of New Flyer D40LFs in the mid-to-late 1990s and a little bit into the 2000s (i.e. Translink's 2000 D60LF). A wild guess is that these companies had seen how the Series 50 EGR moves, so by the time the EGR model/ EPA 2004 regulations had taken effect (October 2002), they had started investing in Cummins engines. IIRC, you can find some Series 50 EGRs in Central Canada/near Ottawa and Mississauga. 

Because the exhaust runs through the engine twice, the Series 50 EGR is noticeably slower than the normal Series 50 engine.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, LegoNovaLFS2001 said:

Regarding the East/West thing, Companies like Calgary Transit and CMBC/Translink had ordered a large amount of New Flyer D40LFs in the mid-to-late 1990s and a little bit into the 2000s (i.e. Translink's 2000 D60LF). A wild guess is that these companies had seen how the Series 50 EGR moves, so by the time the EGR model/ EPA 2004 regulations had taken effect (October 2002), they had started investing in Cummins engines. IIRC, you can find some Series 50 EGRs in Central Canada/near Ottawa and Mississauga. 

Because the exhaust runs through the engine twice, the Series 50 EGR is noticeably slower than the normal Series 50 engine.

Basically Western Canada still operates a lot of Series 50 buses to this day. While Eastern Canada still has only a few Series 50 EGRs running today such as TTC.

[chasbo2]

While the company still supports the series 50, they are no longer making new ones instead they have decided to make new engines including the DD5, DD8, DD13 and DD15. DD13 and 15's are used in those big motorcoach buses while the DD5 is used in Thomas Built Buses. What I'm hoping for is that the company will open it's market to manufactors like Gillig and New Flyer so that there's competiton with Cummins

[Doppelkupplung]

On 9/30/2019 at 7:27 PM, chasbo2 said:

While the company still supports the series 50, they are no longer making new ones instead they have decided to make new engines including the DD5, DD8, DD13 and DD15. DD13 and 15's are used in those big motorcoach buses while the DD5 is used in Thomas Built Buses. What I'm hoping for is that the company will open it's market to manufactors like Gillig and New Flyer so that there's competiton with Cummins

They'll have to offer something that's competitive with the B6.7, because the number of agencies putting out tenders for regular diesel buses are diminishing, and quickly. And from a parts perspective, it doesn't make sense to order buses with a brand new motor that isn't a Cummins. Practically every hybrid in North America is equipped with a IS/B6.7; to introduce a completely foreign motor will throw things out of whack, and with no explicit benefit (I have no idea if there is any considerable level of transferable parts). And regardless, hybrids are already a dying breed with agencies setting out zero-emissions targets in the not-too distant future. 

[chasbo2]

On 10/2/2019 at 6:42 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

They'll have to offer something that's competitive with the B6.7, because the number of agencies putting out tenders for regular diesel buses are diminishing, and quickly. And from a parts perspective, it doesn't make sense to order buses with a brand new motor that isn't a Cummins. Practically every hybrid in North America is equipped with a IS/B6.7; to introduce a completely foreign motor will throw things out of whack, and with no explicit benefit (I have no idea if there is any considerable level of transferable parts). And regardless, hybrids are already a dying breed with agencies setting out zero-emissions targets in the not-too distant future. 

I could see the DD5 be a competition with the B6.7 and DD8 compete with the L9. I don't like California's new strict regulations on making zero-emissions or electric style buses. It violates the market of choice between hybrid, electirc or diesel powered buses. Governments shouldn't tell us how the engine should be powered by, instead it should be decided by the transit agencies whether or not to purchase clean electric buses or dirty powerful diesel buses. That's not saying I'm all for deregulation as I do think there needs to be emission regulations on cars since the car is a one person vehicle while buses can handle 60 people. Just my persepective on society.

[Doppelkupplung]

9 hours ago, chasbo2 said:

I could see the DD5 be a competition with the B6.7 and DD8 compete with the L9. I don't like California's new strict regulations on making zero-emissions or electric style buses. It violates the market of choice between hybrid, electirc or diesel powered buses. Governments shouldn't tell us how the engine should be powered by, instead it should be decided by the transit agencies whether or not to purchase clean electric buses or dirty powerful diesel buses. That's not saying I'm all for deregulation as I do think there needs to be emission regulations on cars since the car is a one person vehicle while buses can handle 60 people. Just my persepective on society.

It’s just the way of the times, and it makes sense. Buses are brutal on fuel consumption. It just makes sense to have them electric, and the squeeze to change now may have benefits later. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a bit of a dinosaur in this respect. I love internal combustion, and I love a good engine. It adds character amongst many other things to any type vehicle for me, but unfortunately it’s just not a sustainable way to continue in the transit industry. Not in city-focused transport anyways. 

[Doppelkupplung]

Guess this thread is the best out there for this question:

Were there ever any examples of buses with Detroit V series 71/92 engines etc fitted with Allison B500 transmissions? At first I thought it wouldn’t have been possible due to different years of production but after some searching I found that in the 90s the engine was still in production and the transmission was being introduced to buses. 
 

Just a thought that crossed my mind, also because every time I’ve come across an old Detroit powered bus it’s always been an older Allison V series transmission.

[Community Shuttle]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:19 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

Guess this thread is the best out there for this question:

Were there ever any examples of buses with Detroit V series 71/92 engines etc fitted with Allison B500 transmissions? At first I thought it wouldn’t have been possible due to different years of production but after some searching I found that in the 90s the engine was still in production and the transmission was being introduced to buses. 
 

Just a thought that crossed my mind, also because every time I’ve come across an old Detroit powered bus it’s always been an older Allison V series transmission.

Coast Mountain had a 1992 NFI D40 with a 6V92TA and B400R. However, the transmission was swapped in after the fact. The original box was an HTB-748.