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Dr. BusFreak

2017 Alexander Dennis Enviro 500 trial

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27 minutes ago, Express691 said:

This infocard I picked up at TransExpo Vancouver in 2016 might just solve a million questions.

 

ADD1.thumb.jpg.35e0cb7ecb5c92881b6c7140f07cd4e2.jpgADD2.thumb.jpg.de978ba11823b3548d48642648ca4d6d.jpgADD3.thumb.jpg.937769a19e257141e1d7767a6cd751a9.jpg

380 hp (option of 330 hp)

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On 1/13/2018 at 11:20 PM, Express691 said:

This infocard I picked up at TransExpo Vancouver in 2016 might just solve a million questions.

 

ADD1.thumb.jpg.35e0cb7ecb5c92881b6c7140f07cd4e2.jpgADD2.thumb.jpg.de978ba11823b3548d48642648ca4d6d.jpgADD3.thumb.jpg.937769a19e257141e1d7767a6cd751a9.jpg

It says it could be equipped with either a 380 or a 330, so it doesn't really bring us to any conclusion about power. At least it confirms the ISL9.

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On 1/15/2018 at 2:48 AM, Community Shuttle said:

It says it could be equipped with either a 380 or a 330, so it doesn't really bring us to any conclusion about power. At least it confirms the ISL9.

I'd bet 380 since they are serving the Vancouver area, since the geography of that area isn't what anybody would call flat. In fact, I don't know any operators with the 330hp option for ADLs, or coaches. 

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But the thing is, 1008 and 1009 are demo buses owned by ADL, so it would make sense ADL would want to have one bus a 380 hp unit, and another a 330 hp unit, therefore when transit agencies test them out, they would have a better idea what kind of engine specifications they need if they decide to order.
The same theory could apply as to why 1008 has cloth covered reclining seats and the standard flooring, while 1009 has wood flooring and non-reclining vinyl seats.

Edited by Dr. BusFreak
For clarity
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5 minutes ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

But the thing is, 1008 and 1009 are demo buses owned by ADL, so it would make sense ADL would want to have one bus a 380 hp unit, and another a 330 hp unit, therfore when transit agencies test them out, they would have better idea what kind of engine specification they need if they decide to order.

This would also explain why 1008 has cloth covered reclining seats and the standard flooring, while 1009 has wood flooring and non-reclining vinyl seats.

I'm not sure what engine specifications have to do with what kind of seats are on the bus. These are two separate entities. Seats can be of all different types in the first place (go and search up what Go Transit has compared to what Ottawa has).

However I will say that on the infocard I picked up last year, there are options for 49 seats and 55 seats upstairs. For downstairs, and 3 more downstairs configurations with 31, 28+Wchair or 25+2 Wchairs.

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20 minutes ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

while 1009 has wood flooring

This trend is really becoming popular....

As for what you said, it is entirely possible that they provided them with different engine options, but I don't think that's why the interiors are different. They could just be testing the two interiors to see how they hold up over the test period, and perhaps also for passenger feedback. 

Despite the speculation, I still stand by my theory that they are 380hp units; it only makes sense for a generally hilly area like Vancouver. A 330hp unit would be good for city/downtown dominant routes, i.e. in Hong Kong, London etc. where power is less of an issue when compared to capacity. 

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3 hours ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

The same theory could apply as to why 1008 has cloth covered reclining seats and the standard flooring, while 1009 has wood flooring and non-reclining vinyl seats.

I've heard from drivers that it's because 1008 was built to American highway coach-type standards and 1009 was built to European inner city standards.

 

@MiWay0310 Also heard from drivers 1008 is 380, and other is 330, but this is all speculation, probably.

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26 minutes ago, buizelbus said:

@MiWay0310 Also heard from drivers 1008 is 380, and other is 330, but this is all speculation, probably.

Yeah, could be a possibility. @Dr. BusFreak put it best:

3 hours ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

a 380 hp unit, and another a 330 hp unit, therefore when transit agencies test them out, they would have a better idea what kind of engine specifications they need if they decide to order

 

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3 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

This trend is really becoming popular....

As for what you said, it is entirely possible that they provided them with different engine options, but I don't think that's why the interiors are different. They could just be testing the two interiors to see how they hold up over the test period, and perhaps also for passenger feedback. 

Despite the speculation, I still stand by my theory that they are 380hp units; it only makes sense for a generally hilly area like Vancouver. A 330hp unit would be good for city/downtown dominant routes, i.e. in Hong Kong, London etc. where power is less of an issue when compared to capacity. 

Some the KMB Enviro 500 MMC in hongkong  with wood floor, they run for Airport bus.

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8 hours ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

But the thing is, 1008 and 1009 are demo buses owned by ADL, so it would make sense ADL would want to have one bus a 380 hp unit, and another a 330 hp unit, therefore when transit agencies test them out, they would have a better idea what kind of engine specifications they need if they decide to order.
The same theory could apply as to why 1008 has cloth covered reclining seats and the standard flooring, while 1009 has wood flooring and non-reclining vinyl seats.

1009 also has fewer individual HVAC vents, reading lights, and stop request buttons than 1008. It also has USB ports while 1008 has 110v outlets.

4 hours ago, buizelbus said:

I've heard from drivers that it's because 1008 was built to American highway coach-type standards and 1009 was built to European inner city standards.

 

@MiWay0310 Also heard from drivers 1008 is 380, and other is 330, but this is all speculation, probably.

I thought 1009 was originally built to US spec, only retrofitted to EU spec later on when it went to BVG for demonstration. It has been mostly retrofitted back to US spec aside from the rear plate holder.

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9 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

I thought 1009 was originally built to US spec, only retrofitted to EU spec later on when it went to BVG for demonstration. It has been mostly retrofitted back to US spec aside from the rear plate holder.

Though I'm surprised they went through the trouble to change the wheels. I wonder if they weren't NA compliant? I can say that I've seen those wheels on the VanHools that RTL operates...but nowhere else. And they put the god-awful bumper back on too....blechh

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17 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

Though I'm surprised they went through the trouble to change the wheels. I wonder if they weren't NA compliant? I can say that I've seen those wheels on the VanHools that RTL operates...but nowhere else. And they put the god-awful bumper back on too....blechh

Not sure. I though only tires were subject to different standards around the wheel.

Also, the European bumper isn't illegal in the US or Canada, unless 5mph bumpers are still required on buses. I think it had to do with the bike rack.

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4 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

Not sure. I though only tires were subject to different standards around the wheel.

Perhaps that's why...may be they just had a spare wheelset with compliant tires that just happened to be lying around, and it happened to be equipped with Alcoas. Because I learned that the rims were indeed NA compliant - OC Transpo's DDs have them.

4 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

Also, the European bumper isn't illegal in the US or Canada, unless 5mph bumpers are still required on buses. I think it had to do with the bike rack.

I know its not illegal here, GO has that "EU" spec bumper on their SuperLos with the bike rack. My guess is that that bumper is there to accommodate the triple-rack, not the standard double? But then again, that would only apply to 1009. The EU bumper certainly does have mounting points for a rack though; they are right beside where the EU front plate would usually go. 

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12 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

Perhaps that's why...may be they just had a spare wheelset with compliant tires that just happened to be lying around, and it happened to be equipped with Alcoas. Because I learned that the rims were indeed NA compliant - OC Transpo's DDs have them.

I know its not illegal here, GO has that "EU" spec bumper on their SuperLos with the bike rack. My guess is that that bumper is there to accommodate the triple-rack, not the standard double? But then again, that would only apply to 1009. The EU bumper certainly does have mounting points for a rack though; they are right beside where the EU front plate would usually go. 

I guess it's probably for handling the weight of the triple rack

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2 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

I guess it's probably for handling the weight of the triple rack

mmm perhaps, but that doesn't explain why 1008 doesn't have it. Then again, I don't think 1008 served BVG, so it may not have had EU spec stuff on it at all. 

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2 hours ago, MiWay0310 said:

mmm perhaps, but that doesn't explain why 1008 doesn't have it. Then again, I don't think 1008 served BVG, so it may not have had EU spec stuff on it at all. 

AFAIK 1008 has never left the Americas after landing from the UK when new, while 1009 was the one that did a bit of traveling.

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On ‎19‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:54 PM, Community Shuttle said:

1009 also has fewer individual HVAC vents, reading lights, and stop request buttons than 1008. It also has USB ports while 1008 has 110v outlets.

I thought 1009 was originally built to US spec, only retrofitted to EU spec later on when it went to BVG for demonstration. It has been mostly retrofitted back to US spec aside from the rear plate holder.

The two demos #1008 and #1009 have a very different career life from each other before they both served as demonstrators for Translink now, as follow:

#1008 (SFET9K749EGN13476) pretty much stayed in North America as a demonstrator for most of its life (at least til now).  It first shows up in Trans Expo 2014 show in Nigara Falls, ON and then it was on demonstration to a LOT of transit systems in North America since then, just to name a few:

Feb 2015--AC Transit of Oakland, California

March 2016--Western Contra Costa Transit Authority(WestCat), Pinole, California

July 2016--MARTA of Atlanta, Georgia

October 2016--Capital Metro of Austin, Texas

October 2016--Foothill Transit, California

November 2017--Toronto Transit Commission, Toronto, Ontario (never place in service)

November 2017--RTC Quebec City(never place in service)

#1009 (SFET9K748EGN13484) has quite a bit of history and did some "travelling" around the world.  It started as an Altoona test bus down in PennState back in Oct 2014.  The bus was sent back to UK (Falkirk) for full rebuilt after which I have seen a picture of it inside ADL facility at that time.  The bus was then being sent to Berlin BVG of Germany in late 2015 for demonstration and lasted couple months there, before returning to UK again for some modification back to US spec. again..  After that, the bus was sent to Chile in South America for demonstration in Spring 2017, before returning to ADL North America facility in Napanee, Indiana for some modification again.  Before coming up to Vancouver, it did attend the APTA expo in Atlanta back in Oct 2017 together with #1008 as a shuttle bus at the show.  The noticeable difference between the two buses, besides the interior features, is the "Enviro 500" lettering rear engine cap. at the back of 1009 which 1008 is lack of.

1008.jpg

1008-2.jpg

BVG 1009.jpg

Chile 1009 (3).jpg

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9 hours ago, Cimon8000 said:

#1009 (SFET9K748EGN13484) has quite a bit of history and did some "travelling" around the world.  It started as an Altoona test bus down in PennState back in Oct 2014.  The bus was sent back to UK (Falkirk) for full rebuilt after which I have seen a picture of it inside ADL facility at that time.  The bus was then being sent to Berlin BVG of Germany in late 2015 for demonstration and lasted couple months there, before returning to UK again for some modification back to US spec. again..  After that, the bus was sent to Chile in South America for demonstration in Spring 2017, before returning to ADL North America facility in Napanee, Indiana for some modification again.  Before coming up to Vancouver, it did attend the APTA expo in Atlanta back in Oct 2017 together with #1008 as a shuttle bus at the show.  The noticeable difference between the two buses, besides the interior features, is the "Enviro 500" lettering rear engine cap. at the back of 1009 which 1008 is lack of.

It was getting those frequent flier miles!

I'm just curious as to why ADL would go through the trouble of replacing the bumpers on the bus, since the bumper used in Chile and Berlin is the same as the ones that GOT uses on the SuperLo. Same with the wheels. 

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9 hours ago, Cimon8000 said:

The two demos #1008 and #1009 have a very different career life from each other before they both served as demonstrators for Translink now, as follow:

#1008 (SFET9K749EGN13476) pretty much stayed in North America as a demonstrator for most of its life (at least til now).  It first shows up in Trans Expo 2014 show in Nigara Falls, ON and then it was on demonstration to a LOT of transit systems in North America since then, just to name a few:

Feb 2015--AC Transit of Oakland, California

March 2016--Western Contra Costa Transit Authority(WestCat), Pinole, California

July 2016--MARTA of Atlanta, Georgia

October 2016--Capital Metro of Austin, Texas

October 2016--Foothill Transit, California

November 2017--Toronto Transit Commission, Toronto, Ontario (never place in service)

#1009 (SFET9K748EGN13484) has quite a bit of history and did some "travelling" around the world.  It started as an Altoona test bus down in PennState back in Oct 2014.  The bus was sent back to UK (Falkirk) for full rebuilt after which I have seen a picture of it inside ADL facility at that time.  The bus was then being sent to Berlin BVG of Germany in late 2015 for demonstration and lasted couple months there, before returning to UK again for some modification back to US spec. again..  After that, the bus was sent to Chile in South America for demonstration in Spring 2017, before returning to ADL North America facility in Napanee, Indiana for some modification again.  Before coming up to Vancouver, it did attend the APTA expo in Atlanta back in Oct 2017 together with #1008 as a shuttle bus at the show.  The noticeable difference between the two buses, besides the interior features, is the "Enviro 500" lettering rear engine cap. at the back of 1009 which 1008 is lack of.

1008.jpg

1008-2.jpg

BVG 1009.jpg

Chile 1009 (3).jpg

Also, when it was in Berlin, why were the top red marker lights removed? I don't see any reason for that. The marker lights make the vehicle more visible at night.

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1 hour ago, MiWay0310 said:

It was getting those frequent flier miles!

I'm just curious as to why ADL would go through the trouble of replacing the bumpers on the bus, since the bumper used in Chile and Berlin is the same as the ones that GOT uses on the SuperLo. Same with the wheels. 

those energy absorbing bumper which extended out of the front was not street legal for some countries, which is the reason ADL has to replace them before sending them down as demonstrators, different regulations different rules across the world

1 hour ago, anyfong said:

Also, when it was in Berlin, why were the top red marker lights removed? I don't see any reason for that. The marker lights make the vehicle more visible at night.

again, different regulations across countries, which those marker lights on top of the buses are not street legal for certain places

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30 minutes ago, Cimon8000 said:

those energy absorbing bumper which extended out of the front was not street legal for some countries, which is the reason ADL has to replace them before sending them down as demonstrators, different regulations different rules across the world

Aaah okay, that makes sense, thanks. 

32 minutes ago, Cimon8000 said:

again, different regulations across countries, which those marker lights on top of the buses are not street legal for certain places

EU regulations I presume? 

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