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Dr. BusFreak

2017 Alexander Dennis Enviro 500 trial

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20 minutes ago, Community Shuttle said:

So what engines do these buses actually have? ISL9 or ISX12? Or did they get swapped at some point?

ISL9 + B500R

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2 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

So what engines do these buses actually have? ISL9 or ISX12? Or did they get swapped at some point?

According to the wiki's history log on the 1008-1009 page, user @LegoNovaLFS2001 said that they got a look at the engine bay and found it has a ISX12 engine.  

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1 hour ago, Community Shuttle said:

Was it swapped or stock?

According to @LegoNovaLFS2001's edit summary, the builder plate does say it has an ISL9 engine, so that means the builder plate was misprinted (which is unlikely) or Alexander Dennis changed the engine to an ISX12.

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35 minutes ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

According to @LegoNovaLFS2001's edit summary, the builder plate does say it has an ISL9 engine, so that means the builder plate was misprinted (which is unlikely) or Alexander Dennis changed the engine to an ISX12.

I guess it's a swap then

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40 minutes ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

According to @LegoNovaLFS2001's edit summary, the builder plate does say it has an ISL9 engine, so that means the builder plate was misprinted (which is unlikely) or Alexander Dennis changed the engine to an ISX12.

Look, any idiot can edit the wiki to say whatever they want to say. We could have it edited to be an article about dick butt. But until photos of the engine compartment show up; I'm going with the builders plate.

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1 hour ago, translink said:

Look, any idiot can edit the wiki to say whatever they want to say. We could have it edited to be an article about dick butt. But until photos of the engine compartment show up; I'm going with the builders plate.

If we are going to go with the builders' plate, then do we even have any photos of the builders' plate that proves it states it has an ISL9 engine? Because if we don't, then @LegoNovaLFS2001 saying the builders' plate says it has an ISL9 engine has just as much reliability as them saying it actually has an ISX12 engine.

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7 minutes ago, Meraki said:

You're all tagged as CPTDB Wiki Editor, so figure it out among yourselves. Maybe on the Wiki Talk page :lol:

A problem with that would be if anyone has photos or evidence that the engines are ISL9 or ISX12 engines, and aren't a CPTDB Wiki Editor,  they wouldn't be able to share their evidence. Besides, this discussion does actually involve the buses in trial, so I think this would be the appropriate place for this discussion. 

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5 minutes ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

A problem with that would be if anyone has photos or evidence that the engines are ISL9 or ISX12 engines, and aren't a CPTDB Wiki Editor,  they wouldn't be able to share their evidence. Besides, this discussion does actually involve the buses in trial, so I think this would be the appropriate place for this discussion. 

I'm not saying to post it solely on the Wiki, my point is this entire page has been nothing but going back and forth about what is currently there. "Edit logs says it has X." "Edit summary says it has Y."

As @translink has pointed to, post what is new and more importantly verifiable. When someone can confirm what it has, post away. Don't resort to "The Wiki says it has X" because the Wiki is frequently out-of-date.

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11 hours ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

If we are going to go with the builders' plate, then do we even have any photos of the builders' plate that proves it states it has an ISL9 engine? Because if we don't, then @LegoNovaLFS2001 saying the builders' plate says it has an ISL9 engine has just as much reliability as them saying it actually has an ISX12 engine.

1. Yes builder's plate photos exist that say ISL9.

2. The Enviro500 thus far has been only available with the ISL9.

3. Altoona reports indicate an ISL9.

So we're going to have to do a little better than "I heard someone saw" here, guys.

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5 hours ago, anyfong said:

Any idea which routes 1008/1009 will serve today?

Judging from Nextbus, 1008 on 620. North from tsawassen 11:45 1:45 3:45 5:45 etc. South to tsawassen 12:45 2:45 4:45 etc.

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1 hour ago, ADB said:

1. Yes builder's plate photos exist that say ISL9.

2. The Enviro500 thus far has been only available with the ISL9.

3. Altoona reports indicate an ISL9.

So we're going to have to do a little better than "I heard someone saw" here, guys.

So, with that evidence, I'll revert @LegoNovaLFS2001's edit on the wiki.

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Well, since we are going to bring up the Altoona report...

 

  • The Altoona report indicates there are 87 USSC seats in the Enviro 500. The wiki says there's 86 of 4ONE Aries and Lazzerini seating, so there is some proof of the engine being refit to have an ISX. It has a larger liter displacement than the ISL9, and bus builders/transit companies have been known to reconfigure the interior of a bus to support a new engine (An example is Montebello Bus Lines of California: They had sent their 1991 RTS to Complete Coach works to be refitted with Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines, and the rear seating was raised to support the size of the Series 50 engine. Additionally, nearly every bus with the ISM engine has received a body extension/modification to support the size).  
  • This is a demo/pilot bus, so the manufacturer is prone to change details to better the overall performance of the bus. A prime example is SEPTA #3000: It was sent to New Flyer with comments from SEPTA on improving the bus and the rest of their order.
  • It was not I who had looked in the engine bay, but Joshua Roden, and assumably another driver because nobody would be able to open the engine bay without the driver, had read the text on the engine emblazoned on the engine, and had said it read ISX, and that driver can potentially confirm whether it does or not.

BUT

I thought about what Adrian said about not listening to hearsay, and the fact that people said it sounded like ISX, I decided to take a listen for myself. It sounds similar to Nova LFS Artics I've ridden, so I will temporarily concede. I agree with the idea that it has an ISL9, but the truth will be revealed when someone finds their way to the engine bay and gets a picture of some technical information printed on the engine. 

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I was talking to one driver the other day who said there's actually some slight differences between the two buses, and along with feedback from the general public, Translink will be getting feedback from the operators and engineers as to which variation in the model they prefer. I'm not sure exactly what the differences are, and I've only been on 1008 - does anyone know what exactly is different between the two?

(I would laugh if one had an ISL9 and one had an ISX12, and everyone is right...)

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59 minutes ago, LegoNovaLFS2001 said:

Well, since we are going to bring up the Altoona report...

 

  • The Altoona report indicates there are 87 USSC seats in the Enviro 500. The wiki says there's 86 of 4ONE Aries and Lazzerini seating, so there is some proof of the engine being refit to have an ISX. It has a larger liter displacement than the ISL9, and bus builders/transit companies have been known to reconfigure the interior of a bus to support a new engine (An example is Montebello Bus Lines of California: They had sent their 1991 RTS to Complete Coach works to be refitted with Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines, and the rear seating was raised to support the size of the Series 50 engine. Additionally, nearly every bus with the ISM engine has received a body extension/modification to support the size).  
  • This is a demo/pilot bus, so the manufacturer is prone to change details to better the overall performance of the bus. A prime example is SEPTA #3000: It was sent to New Flyer with comments from SEPTA on improving the bus and the rest of their order.
  • It was not I who had looked in the engine bay, but Joshua Roden, and assumably another driver because nobody would be able to open the engine bay without the driver, had read the text on the engine emblazoned on the engine, and had said it read ISX, and that driver can potentially confirm whether it does or not.

BUT

I thought about what Adrian said about not listening to hearsay, and the fact that people said it sounded like ISX, I decided to take a listen for myself. It sounds similar to Nova LFS Artics I've ridden, so I will temporarily concede. I agree with the idea that it has an ISL9, but the truth will be revealed when someone finds their way to the engine bay and gets a picture of some technical information printed on the engine. 

Heard the engine today, sounded like an XD40 so I am going to agree it has the ISL9 right now.

Also, the engine would probably be an X12 instead of an earlier ISX12 model if it was swapped.

 

However, it would be ideal to get a shot of the engine bay.

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I just want to be clear, however: it is entirely possible that ADL retrofitted an ISX engine into one or both of their buses. But in keeping the wiki accurate and credible, it's always good to be sure. Though, I can understand it's not always easy to get confirmation on little details like drivetrain.

 

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3 hours ago, Express691 said:

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro500

Write a 500 word essay, double spaced, Times new roman font with a title page. Due December 11th.

Alternatively: write twice as many words based on this Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dennis_Enviro500. If you choose this option, be sure to include coverage of overseas usage of the vehicle and compare and contrast it to that of North America.

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7 hours ago, Express691 said:

Judging from Nextbus, 1008 on 620. North from tsawassen 11:45 1:45 3:45 5:45 etc. South to tsawassen 12:45 2:45 4:45 etc.

Thanks for the tip! I went to Bridgeport around 2:45 and got a round-trip ride on it. They're fun to ride on, but obviously the big thing that I don't like at all is the wrap. Just take it off. Have photos and video that will be uploaded when I have time.

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