Owning a bus

[ANIME-AND-BUSES]

     Hi Everyone, ANIME-AND-BUSES here, I'm new here and this is my first topic.

So, in the future, I plan to buy a New Flyer bus hopefully when Santa Cruz Metro retires some of their models. But I want to ask others what was their experience with buying a used bus, and what do they do with it.

[XN40]

For California, a lot of times, they sell buses at auction but as non runners to dealers or out of state. Though if a dealer buys a bus, you can buy it. Also the CNG tanks, tend to get destroyed and at least 1 part is removed to keep it from running. I know some people who own vintage buses like fish bowl's and they are a labor of love.

[MVTArider]

I have not bought a used bus myself, however I can tell you it is not cheap to own one. Believe me, if that $5000 for the typical advertised "Used city transit bus, fleet maintained" was all you had to pay, I'd probably be cruising around town in a baby Orion VII   In reality though, You would probably pay $5000 for the bus, then another $5000-$10,000 in parts and maintenance just to get it going to drive it, and get it up to snuff with your state's commercial vehicle inspection. Then add on another big wad of cash for ongoing maintenance, fuel, fluids, and parts. Also you'll need to buy an insurance policy for it and get it registered before you drive it off the sellers lot, or pay to have it towed to your storage or land site.

Beyond the initial investments a used bus is not a fix it and forget kind of vehicle. City buses are retired for good reason, they start to need a LOT of maintenance as they age. Frames corrode, powertrains fail, hoses and wiring break, body panels/windows/doors start leaking, etc. All of that will require upkeep and extensive knowledge to repair. If you are someone who is good with mechanical stuff and can repair vehicles then you might just have a new pet project. If you are someone who thinks any oil will do the trick, this is cheap, and there's probably enough coolant in there, they checked it when it was in the shop a couple months ago, well... mechanics aren't cheap.

Not trying to downplay your desire to own a bus, but it is definitely something that requires an investment of time, money, and space.

[leylandvictory2]

also parts are hard to get as well.

[WMATAC40LF]

I've heard of some people buying old buses and registering them as RVs. In some US states that can get you around commercial registration and licensing regulations, but it varies quite a bit (I'm not sure how it works in Canada). I've seen photos of Fishbowls, Classics, RTSs, Flxibles, and even an AN460 converted to RVs. Of course registering it as an RV does not require you to add all sorts of fancy mobile home features, but you would probably have to remove most of the passenger seats.     

Maintenance and insurance for any larger and older vehicle will set you back a lot. If I was to buy a bus (which realistically I couldn't do for several years), I would want someone knowledgable to look over its structural and major mechanical elements before I would consider buying it. Also, getting specialized parts for newer models (especially for New Flyers) is likely to be inconvenient and costly, so that should factor into any purchase plans you make as well.   

[XN40]

On 4/13/2017 at 0:21 AM, MVTArider said:

I have not bought a used bus myself, however I can tell you it is not cheap to own one. Believe me, if that $5000 for the typical advertised "Used city transit bus, fleet maintained" was all you had to pay, I'd probably be cruising around town in a baby Orion VII   In reality though, You would probably pay $5000 for the bus, then another $5000-$10,000 in parts and maintenance just to get it going to drive it, and get it up to snuff with your state's commercial vehicle inspection. Then add on another big wad of cash for ongoing maintenance, fuel, fluids, and parts. Also you'll need to buy an insurance policy for it and get it registered before you drive it off the sellers lot, or pay to have it towed to your storage or land site.

Beyond the initial investments a used bus is not a fix it and forget kind of vehicle. City buses are retired for good reason, they start to need a LOT of maintenance as they age. Frames corrode, powertrains fail, hoses and wiring break, body panels/windows/doors start leaking, etc. All of that will require upkeep and extensive knowledge to repair. If you are someone who is good with mechanical stuff and can repair vehicles then you might just have a new pet project. If you are someone who thinks any oil will do the trick, this is cheap, and there's probably enough coolant in there, they checked it when it was in the shop a couple months ago, well... mechanics aren't cheap.

Not trying to downplay your desire to own a bus, but it is definitely something that requires an investment of time, money, and space.

A friend of mine owns a Fishbowl and those are not too bad to maintain but parts can be expensive. A Fishbowl uses a very simple electronics system compared to a D40LF for example. Same friend also changes his own oil for the engine and transmission and buses take a lot of oil. Fishbowls use a 2 stroke detroit and you are looking at several gallons of oil. Modern day diesel engines will also take over several gallons of oil as well. A lot of what you said is true. 

California buses do tend to be better structurally but only buy a bus if you know what you are getting into. 

Then again there would be truckers who would never change the oil in their 2 stroke Detroit's, as they burned a lot of oil and can likely cause leaks too. Keeping the oil topped off actually gave them a constant supply of fresh oil, but not recommended if your engine is good condition. 

Storage can also be an issue as a friend of mine who does own a Fishbowl has to keep it stored in a storage facility in a location that I wont disclose. Plus his bus is registered as a vintage vehicle so he can only drive it for a certain amount of miles per year. 

You also need a Class B (CDL) license in California to drive a transit bus with an Airbrake and passenger endorsement and the Airbrake exam is no joke. CDL licenses are not easy to get and you have to get a physical but if you are reasonably healthy, you should have no problems. If you have high blood pressure then you cant get a CDL unless you can get it down. Plus you have plenty of time to get the behind the wheel test for the CDL as it takes a while to get an appointment. I know some can get buses without a CDL but in order to properly drive one you need a CDL, unless you plan to use it as a Motorhome as those do not require them. I still think RV's should require CDL's but that is a different topic. 

[roamer]

Wow, some very good comments here.  

Yes, it will definitely not be cheap to own a retired transit bus if one expects to drive it on public roadways.  

When I retired as a transit bus driver, I purchased a new diesel pusher motorhome.  Even it being new, it is expensive for just routine maintenance.  Obviously, I was used to my employer maintaining the buses I drove so it never really hit me just how much maintenance is needed and the associated costs that would be incurred.  

An example, when your car breaks-down on the road and needs a tow, it's not a huge issue.  If your bus breaks down and it needs a tow, it gets more complicated and expensive.  Transit agencies have their own wreckers but owning a bus privately, you'll have to make those arrangements yourself and sometimes it's difficult to obtain quickly and not cheap ...not to mention trying to find a firm with the correct equipment and personnel that are familiar with towing a bus.  Yes, there is ERS if you register it as an RV but if you keep it preserved with the seats intact, I'm thinking that ERS will be much more expensive than it is when owning a motorhome.  

Another realization that hit me hard was the cost of tires.  Car tires are one thing but buying six truck tires at one time are horrendously more expensive than buying tires for the car.

And I agree completely with XN40, all states should require a special license for driving a diesel pusher motorhome with air brakes.  As it currently stands, only a handful of states require it.  It's not a CDL but most states that do require it call it a "non-commercial Class B" license which is essentially identical to a CDL required of bus drivers without the DOT physical that is required for commercial drivers.  All the same tests are needed for a non-commercial Class B license that the CDL applicant is required to pass.  I've been in lots of discussions/arguments pertaining to this issue on some RV forums but as XN40 states, it's a entire different topic.