Jump to content
Blue Bus Fan

2018 60' Articulated Bus Order

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, 8010 said:

Also, how do we know that TransLink is actually scrapping the B-Line name entirely and not just branding the buses similar to how the Nova Suburbans are branded with ExpressBus? 

I mean I don't think we're 100% sure that the name will be scrapped, but I think it's likely that it will happen.

(This probably shouldn't go here, but on well.) On the Buzzer someone asked about the numbering scheme and now the 9X block is running out, and they said that an announcement will happen early this year about that. Given that Kevin Desmond is from King Country Metro before, my suspicion is that the RapidBus routes will become letters, and the B-Line brand will live on with the 99 being rebranded the "B Line RapidBus".

2 hours ago, Phillip said:

Well, we're getting 110 new XDE60 total, they are also retiring the remaining D60LFs. I think they will transfer out buses in BTC to replace the D60LFs while they take the new XDE60. All 110 new XDE60 is supposed to come green.

Do we know if these 47 will arrive by September? In any case though, it'll probably take more than 110 artics to run the 95, 96, 99, plus the 3 new routes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, northwesterner said:

And I was looking forward to getting dirt in my eye on a future D60LF ride in Vancouver. 

That can only happen on the 620 😂

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Phillip said:

Well, we're getting 110 new XDE60 total, they are also retiring the remaining D60LFs. I think they will transfer out buses in BTC to replace the D60LFs while they take the new XDE60. All 110 new XDE60 is supposed to come green.

 

4 hours ago, briguychau said:

Do we know if these 47 will arrive by September? In any case though, it'll probably take more than 110 artics to run the 95, 96, 99, plus the 3 new routes.

STC (96): 15001-15013 wrapped green and sent out on the 96.

RTC: No B-Lines, but 29 D60LF have to be replaced. BTC transfers 15014-15021 and 8102-8117 (24 busses), plus 8118-8123 (30 units total).

BTC (95, 99, 239/93): 18001-18063, 16201-16226 to be wrapped and sent out on these routes. Also maybe 5 of the 2019 XDE60 (19043-19047) for a total of 102 busses. All D60LF retired. 8145-8156 (12 extra units) regular livery for 44 UBC.

HTC (43/91): Large chunk of the 2019 order (19013-19042), 30 busses.

PCTC (701/97): BTC transfers 8124-8144 (21 units) to replace 20 D60LF. 19001-19012 (12 units) expansion for B-Line.

Fleet-wide totals:

  • No D60LF remaining
  • 16 D60LFR at RTC
  • 6 DE60LFR at RTC, 12 at BTC, 21 at PCTC
  • 33 XDE60 at RTC, 13 at STC, 102 at BTC, 30 at HTC, 12 at PTC

I guess it works out perfectly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, briguychau said:

I mean I don't think we're 100% sure that the name will be scrapped, but I think it's likely that it will happen.

(This probably shouldn't go here, but on well.) On the Buzzer someone asked about the numbering scheme and now the 9X block is running out, and they said that an announcement will happen early this year about that. Given that Kevin Desmond is from King Country Metro before, my suspicion is that the RapidBus routes will become letters, and the B-Line brand will live on with the 99 being rebranded the "B Line RapidBus".

I often see it characterized here that this branding is a "Kevin Desmond thing" and he's just "bringing King County Metro to Vancouver."

Over a decade ago I took some upper division transportation planning classes at my university. Branding services like this - with a unique naming nomenclature and its own livery, bus stop design, etc, is considered best practice in the industry. 

I personally think its generally unnecessary, because the core improvements to these types of lines - off board payment, all door board, frequent headways - make the service so attractive that the passengers will come without all the paint, wraps, etc. 

But if the Desmond led TL does roll-out a new branding, understand he's not just grabbing what he did at KCM and implementing it in Vancouver. He's implementing what is considered to be industry best practices. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, FlyingPig said:

 

STC (96): 15001-15013 wrapped green and sent out on the 96.

RTC: No B-Lines, but 29 D60LF have to be replaced. BTC transfers 15014-15021 and 8102-8117 (24 busses), plus 8118-8123 (30 units total).

BTC (95, 99, 239/93): 18001-18063, 16201-16226 to be wrapped and sent out on these routes. Also maybe 5 of the 2019 XDE60 (19043-19047) for a total of 102 busses. All D60LF retired. 8145-8156 (12 extra units) regular livery for 44 UBC.

HTC (43/91): Large chunk of the 2019 order (19013-19042), 30 busses.

PCTC (701/97): BTC transfers 8124-8144 (21 units) to replace 20 D60LF. 19001-19012 (12 units) expansion for B-Line.

Fleet-wide totals:

  • No D60LF remaining
  • 16 D60LFR at RTC
  • 6 DE60LFR at RTC, 12 at BTC, 21 at PCTC
  • 33 XDE60 at RTC, 13 at STC, 102 at BTC, 30 at HTC, 12 at PTC

I guess it works out perfectly.

D60LFRs will stay at BTC. RTC has no use for the ISMs, while BTC desperately needs them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, buizelbus said:

D60LFRs will stay at BTC. RTC has no use for the ISMs, while BTC desperately needs them.

With PTC doing the 143s and 145s, I think they need them more. These two routes require more frequent trips up and down steep grades than any other route in existence at the present moment in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Citaro said:

With PTC doing the 143s and 145s, I think they need them more. These two routes require more frequent trips up and down steep grades than any other route in existence at the present moment in time.

I agree with this. Quite frankly I often wonder why some D60LFRs haven't been transferred to PCT already, not just because of the 143 and 145, but also to provide some camera-equipped artics to run on the N9. This could have been achieved easily in the past by just swapping D60LFs with other newer buses from BTC.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing for me that sticks out with RapidBus is that... The lines and sub-fleet colours are only marginally different from what is used on the rest of the fleet. Contrast that with KCM which has bold red colours for RapidRide and a rotating blue/teal/green livery for everything else. (Oh, and also purple for trolleybuses.) I guess in some ways this is closer to what Community Transit has done... But if you were to ask me to tell the buses and lines apart in their current state, I'd probably take a few extra seconds to do so.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Millennium2002 said:

The thing for me that sticks out with RapidBus is that... The lines and sub-fleet colours are only marginally different from what is used on the rest of the fleet. Contrast that with KCM which has bold red colours for RapidRide and a rotating blue/teal/green livery for everything else. (Oh, and also purple for trolleybuses.) I guess in some ways this is closer to what Community Transit has done... But if you were to ask me to tell the buses and lines apart in their current state, I'd probably take a few extra seconds to do so.

What they're doing with RapidBus is basically the same thing they did with the original specifically branded B-Line buses in 1998-2000, only this time they didn't use a different design but changed the colors instead. (From what I've read, the old B-Line design wasn't the work of BC Transit or TransLink, but rather that of New Flyer with BCT/TL colors specified).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, FlyingPig said:

 

STC (96): 15001-15013 wrapped green and sent out on the 96.

 RTC: No B-Lines, but 29 D60LF have to be replaced. BTC transfers 15014-15021 and 8102-8117 (24 busses), plus 8118-8123 (30 units total).

 BTC (95, 99, 239/93): 18001-18063, 16201-16226 to be wrapped and sent out on these routes. Also maybe 5 of the 2019 XDE60 (19043-19047) for a total of 102 busses. All D60LF retired. 8145-8156 (12 extra units) regular livery for 44 UBC.

 HTC (43/91): Large chunk of the 2019 order (19013-19042), 30 busses.

 PCTC (701/97): BTC transfers 8124-8144 (21 units) to replace 20 D60LF. 19001-19012 (12 units) expansion for B-Line.

 Fleet-wide totals:

  •  No D60LF remaining
  • 16 D60LFR at RTC
  •  6 DE60LFR at RTC, 12 at BTC, 21 at PCTC
  •  33 XDE60 at RTC, 13 at STC, 102 at BTC, 30 at HTC, 12 at PTC

 I guess it works out perfectly.

So the new b line routes have been revealed??? And what about the 2012 XDE60s? No mention of those ones

On 11/27/2018 at 9:13 PM, cleowin said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QATxfcSBCNxTo69ScBB5o1OXoG2Vt43TKmfDn0N5h_4/edit#gid=1232686809

See my doc for fleet allocation predictions for all these expansion / replacement units

BTC actually has 72 2008 Novas after acquiring 9797-9799 from WVMT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Evan Hancock said:

So the new b line routes have been revealed??? And what about the 2012 XDE60s? No mention of those ones

BTC actually has 72 2008 Novas after acquiring 9797-9799 from WVMT

This hasnt been updated in awhile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, northwesterner said:

Branding services like this - with a unique naming nomenclature and its own livery, bus stop design, etc, is considered best practice in the industry. 

I personally think its generally unnecessary, because the core improvements to these types of lines - off board payment, all door board, frequent headways - make the service so attractive that the passengers will come without all the paint, wraps, etc. 

But if the Desmond led TL does roll-out a new branding, understand he's not just grabbing what he did at KCM and implementing it in Vancouver. He's implementing what is considered to be industry best practices. 

I agree with you. What I think is unfortunate is:

 

1. TransLink has huge, positive, brand recognition with B-Line. I've not seen a compelling reason to change this to the generic, clearly Washington-inspired RapidBus branding. They're renaming a successful product. That seems wasteful. 

2. TransLink stopped the B-Line livery because any bus in Vancouver can end up on a myriad of routes. So it made no sense. Now we are going back to the futute, and no doubt the RapidBus vehicles will quickly make their way to routes like the 620, just as an arbitrary example. And the next generation of management will probably undo this decision. 

I think the intent is good - and ultimately I'd guess, like the quoted post, that this is being done to amplify recognition of improvements. But at significant cost, and the absolutely absurd wrapping of new buses. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dane said:

I agree with you. What I think is unfortunate is:

 

1. TransLink has huge, positive, brand recognition with B-Line. I've not seen a compelling reason to change this to the generic, clearly Washington-inspired RapidBus branding. They're renaming a successful product. That seems wasteful. 

2. TransLink stopped the B-Line livery because any bus in Vancouver can end up on a myriad of routes. So it made no sense. Now we are going back to the futute, and no doubt the RapidBus vehicles will quickly make their way to routes like the 620, just as an arbitrary example. And the next generation of management will probably undo this decision. 

I think the intent is good - and ultimately I'd guess, like the quoted price, that this is being done to amplify recognition of improvements. But at significant cost, and the absolutely absurd wrapping of new buses. 

Thanks. I just don't think its necessary, given the brand equity is already there with the B-Line.

Regarding the specialized livery - can Desmond change the management culture at CMBC to the point where they actually can manage to book out the right kind of vehicles on the right lines on a regular basis. 

I know why they got away from the unique B-Line livery. But I've always seen that as a failure of management and the culture at CMBC. This is a process that can be, and is managed, by other agencies to make sure the correct vehicles are on the correct assignments greater than 95% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Evan Hancock said:

So the new b line routes have been revealed??? And what about the 2012 XDE60s? No mention of those ones

Thanks for mentioning yet another one of my mistakes. I am currently working on new version of the predictions, with the 2012 units included, and using feedback from buizelbus and Citaro.

🚌🚌🚌🚌🚌

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest immediate bookout problem I can see is that BTC's 99 and 95 blocks, as well as Surrey's 96 blocks, are almost always interlined with nightbuses. Do we really want the nightbuses to be in RapidBus livery? They are basically the opposite of rapid. But there aren't enough (or late enough) 44 and 49 blocks to interline with all the nightbuses that need artics. It wouldn't be acceptable to use 40' buses on most of these routes just because that would be more convenient for bookouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Large Cat said:

The biggest immediate bookout problem I can see is that BTC's 99 and 95 blocks, as well as Surrey's 96 blocks, are almost always interlined with nightbuses. Do we really want the nightbuses to be in RapidBus livery? They are basically the opposite of rapid. But there aren't enough (or late enough) 44 and 49 blocks to interline with all the nightbuses that need artics. It wouldn't be acceptable to use 40' buses on most of these routes just because that would be more convenient for bookouts.

There are also trips on the 95 that terminate at Waterfront Station and turn into the 44 now, although having RapidBus artics on the 44 makes more sense than NightBus routes since it is a somewhat frequent express service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, 8010 said:

There are also trips on the 95 that terminate at Waterfront Station and turn into the 44 now, although having RapidBus artics on the 44 makes more sense than NightBus routes since it is a somewhat frequent express service.

But just speaks to the limitations of a specific livery vehicle. I don't oppose the branding name at all, and really at the end of the day I don't actually care about the livery either, but - all things being equal it muddies a branding image of bus service that was Sooooo close to being standardized. 

 

And the Night Bus point is interesting too, like the exact opposite of RapidBus. Maybe they could have like a little "#LOL Not Really" they could apply after the RapidBus name for night runs 😂

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, buizelbus said:

D60LFRs will stay at BTC. RTC has no use for the ISMs, while BTC desperately needs them.

 

11 hours ago, Citaro said:

With PTC doing the 143s and 145s, I think they need them more. These two routes require more frequent trips up and down steep grades than any other route in existence at the present moment in time.

Sorry I didn't consider that. Here are the new numbers:

STC (96): 15001-15013 wrapped green and sent out on the 96.

RTC: No B-Lines, but 29 D60LF have to be replaced. BTC transfers 8118-8148 (total 31). Plus 25 2012 XDE60

BTC (95, 99, 239/93): 18001-18063, 16201-16226 to be wrapped and sent out on these routes.Total 97 units. 12 of the best D60LF stay until the next order, plus 15014-15021 (20 extra units total) regular livery for 44, 257.

HTC (43/91): Large chunk of the 2019 order (19015-19047), 32 units.

PTC (701/97): BTC transfers 8102-8117, 8149-8156 (24 units) to replace 20 D60LF (and for expansion). 19001-19015 (15 units) expansion for B-Line.

Fleet-wide totals:

  • 12 D60LF at BTC
  • 16 D60LFR at PTC
  • 31 DE60LFR at RTC, 8 at PTC
  • 25 XDE60 at RTC, 13 at STC, 105 at BTC, 32 at HTC, 15 at PTC

Rapidbus unit totals:

  • 97 at BTC
  • 32 at HTC
  • 13 at STC
  • 15 at PTC
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently they are making allot of changes to improve how things are done and I believe they can make a sub fleet work.  The other thing to consider is there are much much more resources now compared to when the B-Line first launched so that needs to be taken into consideration.  Also, basically every non trolley artic route in the system is express/quick service as of September, so this is how I can see all the various services being broken down:

  • Rapid Bus (44 145 143 257 and so on)
  • Rapid Bus B-Line (91 92 95 96 97 99)(just what I assume the numbers will be)
  • Express Bus (Suburban routes)
  • Normal bus service
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Brando737 said:

Currently they are making allot of changes to improve how things are done and I believe they can make a sub fleet work.  The other thing to consider is there are much much more resources now compared to when the B-Line first launched so that needs to be taken into consideration.  Also, basically every non trolley artic route in the system is express/quick service as of September, so this is how I can see all the various services being broken down:

  • Rapid Bus (44 145 143 257 and so on)
  • Rapid Bus B-Line (91 92 95 96 97 99)(just what I assume the numbers will be)
  • Express Bus (Suburban routes)
  • Normal bus service

I think Translink needs to go with XN60's or XD60's, the hybrids do have more power than their original counterparts, but Diesels perform better, and it's a shame that BTC will eventually be hybrid only when they have a mountain to deal with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Brando737 said:

Also, basically every non trolley artic route in the system is express/quick service as of September[.]

The #49 won’t be, and arguably routes like the #25, #100, and #502 shouldn’t be. Do we really want to be locked into not using artics on conventional routes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QATxfcSBCNxTo69ScBB5o1OXoG2Vt43TKmfDn0N5h_4/edit#gid=151886761

Here is a short summary of my end of 2019 projections:

VTC:

  • 37 2009 Nova LFS to RTC
  • 14 2009 Nov HEV to HTC

BTC:

  • 11 2000 D60LF's to RTC
  • 16 2007 D60LFR's to PTC
  • 8 2015 XDE60's to STC
  • 26 2016 XDE60's to HTC
  • 63 2018 XDE60's to BTC

RTC:

  • 14 2012 XDE60's to PTC
  • All D40LF's except 5 of them Retired
  • All 2001 Orion V's Retired

HTC:

  • All D40LF's Retired
  • 8 2014 XN40's to PTC

PTC:

  • 1 1998 D60LF to RTC
  • 2 1999 D60LF to RTC
  • 17 2000 D60LF to STC

STC:

  • 20 D40LF's Retired

Total Fleet: 1500 Vehicles (End of 2019)

BTC, HTC, PTC & STC will be operating RapidBus routes, therefore transfers need to be made to allow for the green livery, it's possible that maybe the D60LFR's or even BTC's DE60LFR's will receive it as well? Either way, until the next batch of XDE60's are confirmed ordered, none of the existing D60LF's can be retired yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, cleowin said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QATxfcSBCNxTo69ScBB5o1OXoG2Vt43TKmfDn0N5h_4/edit#gid=151886761

Here is a short summary of my end of 2019 projections:

VTC:

  • 37 2009 Nova LFS to RTC
  • 14 2009 Nov HEV to HTC

BTC:

  • 11 2000 D60LF's to RTC
  • 16 2007 D60LFR's to PTC
  • 8 2015 XDE60's to STC
  • 26 2016 XDE60's to HTC
  • 63 2018 XDE60's to BTC

RTC:

  • 14 2012 XDE60's to PTC
  • All D40LF's except 5 of them Retired
  • All 2001 Orion V's Retired

HTC:

  • All D40LF's Retired
  • 8 2014 XN40's to PTC

PTC:

  • 1 1998 D60LF to RTC
  • 2 1999 D60LF to RTC
  • 17 2000 D60LF to STC

STC:

  • 16 D40LF's Retired

Total Fleet: 1500 Vehicles (End of 2019)

BTC, HTC, PTC & STC will be operating RapidBus routes, therefore transfers need to be made to allow for the green livery, it's possible that maybe the D60LFR's or even BTC's DE60LFR's will receive it as well? Either way, until the next batch of XDE60's are confirmed ordered, none of the existing D60LF's can be retired yet.

Not entirely. Hopefully all the 18-19 XDE60 will come before the September service changes (or possibly one route will be delayed until December). Then the D60LFs can all be retired. I really don't see 17 D60LFs going to STC and even more staying at RTC and PTC. Again, in my above predictions, there will only be 12 of the best D60LF's left at BTC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, FlyingPig said:

Not entirely. Hopefully all the 18-19 XDE60 will come before the September service changes (or possibly one route will be delayed until December). Then the D60LFs can all be retired. I really don't see 17 D60LFs going to STC and even more staying at RTC and PTC. Again, in my above predictions, there will only be 12 of the best D60LF's left at BTC.

except that STC will be getting a full upgrade on the 96 plus arctics on the 502, so they need more. And until more arrive, i don't think TL will delay routes simply because they dont have the vehicles, they have been doing reitrement defferal, so they can just keep going with it, the next XDE60 order will certainly retire them all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cleowin said:

except that STC will be getting a full upgrade on the 96 plus arctics on the 502, so they need more. And until more arrive, i don't think TL will delay routes simply because they dont have the vehicles, they have been doing reitrement defferal, so they can just keep going with it, the next XDE60 order will certainly retire them all

Hope some of those artics can pop up on the 319 as it's a fricken mess. Even if they can't stick artics on the route, would be nice to bump up the frequency. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×