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Blue Bus Fan

2018 60' Articulated Bus Order

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Right off the bat, this was originally an option off the 2015 order (21-26-51). Translink never got to exercise it in time, making the base order for 51, replacements.

First of 51 units will be Diesel. (XD60/Nova LFSX)

Diesel and Diesel-Electric options are specified
ZF Transmission

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Only got around to reading the RFP and the Excel spreadsheets just now. Nothing new, just small tidbits.

Form B Price of Work

  • 52 diesel units highlighted for the 2017 order. First production vehicle and 51 vehicles arriving no later than April 30 and August 31, 2018, respectively.
  • Options are 20 units for 2018 and 55 units for 2019, with the diesel or hybrid option.

Included in the spreadsheet are some optional items I found interesting: A white destination sign, a Cummins X12 engine and an operator barrier.

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I know Hamilton uses white destination signs on their newest buses.

I find it interesting as it might give a nice and modern aura to our transit vehicles... but my personal thought and concern is whether it comes at a cost to visibility. I actually really like orange (particularly with the brightness they manage on our newest buses) as it can make a transit bus incredibly recognizable among the rest of the vehicles on the road. Even in Japan, as far as I've seen, buses use orange destination signs that are newly outfitted, despite the increased use of full-colour LED signs on trains and at station next-train displays.

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One other thing.

If we're gonna have XD60s (so they're neither hybrid/XDE or CNG/XN) then I am guessing that a primary application of these buses is going to be non-urban/non B-Line routes?

The 620 comes to mind, but I am also finding myself curious whether it will result in artics on other routes (the other 35X/6XX routes, 555, 701)

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6 minutes ago, 8800GTX said:

One other thing.

If we're gonna have XD60s (so they're neither hybrid/XDE or CNG/XN) then I am guessing that a primary application of these buses is going to be non-urban/non B-Line routes?

The 620 comes to mind, but I am also finding myself curious whether it will result in artics on other routes (the other 35X/6XX routes, 555, 701)

My guess would actually be the routes up Burnaby Mtn. (#95/#143/#145), especially if TL wants the X12 in them. The X12 is the modern successor to the old ISM, and TL loves the power of the ISM-equipped D60LFRs for taking loads up Burnaby Mtn.

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16 minutes ago, GORDOOM said:

My guess would actually be the routes up Burnaby Mtn. (#95/#143/#145), especially if TL wants the X12 in them. The X12 is the modern successor to the old ISM, and TL loves the power of the ISM-equipped D60LFRs for taking loads up Burnaby Mtn.

Agreed. Plus, assuming they don't retire all the D60LFs right away, I would guess they'd move the remaining ones further afield to put less strain on them

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There are 75 D60LF's left in revenue service.

the 2016 XDE60's are likely expansion fleet? My guess is the 26 units will be added to BTC fleet, leading to multiple D60LF's being transferred between RTC, PTC and STC to increase service on high capacity routes?

 

2016 XDE60 order:

26 to BTC

8 2000 D60LF transferred to RTC, 5 to PTC

20 Nova Bus transferred to STC

2018 XD60:

52 XD60 to BTC (38 D60LF's retired)

4 2015 XDE60 transferred to VTC

10 2016 XDE60 transferred to VTC

20 2007 Nova BUS transferred to STC

2018 XDE60:

20 to PTC (Retires D60LF's)

2019 XD60:

36 to BTC

16 2016 XDE60 transferred to STC

30 2007 Nova BUS LFS transferred to STC

19 to RTC (Retires D60LF's)

2019 Fleet:

BTC:

13 2007 D60LFR

39 2009 DE60LFR

52 2018 XD60

36 2019 XD60

95 2019 XD40

Routes 26,27,29,130 transferred to HTC

VTC:

20 2007 Nova BUS LFS

47 2009 Nova BUS LFS

66 2009 Nova BUS HEV

25 2012 XDE60

9 2015 XDE60

10 2016 XDE60

Routes 2/22 Transferred to RTC

HTC:

57 2006 D40LFR

51 2016 XN40

20 2018 XN40

94 2019 XDE40

RTC:

9 2008 Orion V

75 2009 Nova BUS HEV

45 2016 XD40

47 2018 XD40S

19 2019 XD60

STC:

94 2007 Nova Bus LFS

66 2008 Nova Bus LFS

12 2015 XDE60

16 2016 XDE60

12 2018 XD40S

61 2018 XN40

PTC:

50 2006 C40LFR

45 2014 XN40

12 2018 XN40

20 2018 XDE60

 

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2 hours ago, 8800GTX said:

The 620 comes to mind, but I am also finding myself curious whether it will result in artics on other routes (the other 35X/6XX routes, 555, 701)

I don't see the 35x, 6xx routes using artics. The 35x have almost 30-35 minutes of highway, and continuing to use highway coaches and just increase frequency instead of using artics would make sense for a route that has such a long highway portion. As for the 6xx, all it needs is better service. The 640 doesn't have the ridership that would require using artics, and the 601 may be a bit crowded at times, but all it needs is increased frequency from 30 minutes to 20 minutes during off peak hours on weekdays. I can definitely see the 555 using artics in the future due to the fast growing ridership, and possibly the 701 because due to the ridership at rush hour.

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21 minutes ago, cleowin said:

There are 75 D60LF's left in revenue service.

the 2016 XDE60's are likely expansion fleet? My guess is the 26 units will be added to BTC fleet, leading to multiple D60LF's being transferred between RTC, PTC and STC to increase service on high capacity routes?

...

Please refrain from posting speculative lists unless they are in the form of an attachment.

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6 minutes ago, Citaro said:

Please refrain from posting speculative lists unless they are in the form of an attachment.

Ok, no problem, im going to create a google doc, will be easier for me anyway.

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12 minutes ago, cleowin said:

There are 75 D60LF's left in revenue service.

the 2016 XDE60's are likely expansion fleet? My guess is the 26 units will be added to BTC fleet, leading to multiple D60LF's being transferred between RTC, PTC and STC to increase service on high capacity routes?

snip speculation

The order of 26 XDE60's are 1:1 replacements of D60LF's. The supposed "expansion" you claim is by means of deferred retirements. Unless the option of 75 total 60' articulated units are replacements for something else (Orions?), those units will then be towards service expansion.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. BusFreak said:

I can definitely see the 555 using artics in the future due to the fast growing ridership despite the, and possibly the 701 because due to the ridership at rush hour.

Only if you get base frequencies below 10-15 minutes. Otherwise it makes more sense just to add more trips - that will make the service more attractive and help build demand.

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Well i imagine the existing older d60lf's will not be retired, i mean the 2016 xn40 order is supposed to be a 1:1 replacement order, but that hasnt been the case.

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Some of them will have to be retired. They're all 16-19 years old now, and have spent most of that time being used in base service with very heavy loads on routes like the #98/#99/#135. The fact that any of the 1998s are still in service testifies both to the severe capital constraints under which TL has been operating and the strength of CMBC's maintenance programme.

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21 D60LFs (1998) -> 21 XDE60s (2015)

26 D60LFs (1999) -> 26 XDE60s (2016)

53 D60LFs (2000) -> 52 XD60s (2018)

That's aaaaalmost a 1:1 replacement. But, with service expansion, not all the D60LFs are likely to go until more new artics (the 20 and 55 bus options mentioned by @Mountie) are received.

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Yes, it's a 1:1 replacement in technical terms, but with expansion, and fleet deferrment, I don't see a 1:1 Transfer ratio for the fleet. If that were the case, then for every XN40 coming into HTC, an equal amount of D40LF's would be going to STC, but that hasn't been the case, it's closer to 1:2, hence where my predictions come from. There's going to be service improvements for many routes, and given BTC's depot limit, I can only imagine that they'll have to move out routes to improve service on many Artic routes. More Artics = 1.5x less 40 footers. With the loss of 40 footers (with earlier speculation that Nova's are going to STC), BTC will have to move routes to HTC in order to allow expansion of Articulated serviced routes.

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6 hours ago, Mountie said:

Included in the spreadsheet are some optional items I found interesting: A white destination sign, a Cummins X12 engine and an operator barrier.

That is good to see TransLink is thinking about getting more powerful engines for these buses. I actually don't mind if TransLink uses white destination on these buses. 

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14 minutes ago, Blue Bus Fan said:

That is good to see TransLink is thinking about getting more powerful engines for these buses. I actually don't mind if TransLink uses white destination on these buses. 

Does anyone have a photo of these white destination signs? I don't think I've ever seen one on a bus here before.

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