Ontario Bus Deregulation

[Articulated]

I can also see Greyhound trying to run some direct service between Toronto and Montreal as well to compete against Megabus.

Who knows, perhaps Ontario Northland will run some service on the Trans-Canada route west of Sudbury, at least as far as Sault Ste Marie (since Greyhound refuses to make any investments in this corridor). This might not require deregulation though, as they already started competing on the Sudbury-Ottawa route.

[Uwe]

If you are referring to direct service between Toronto-Montreal as via the 401, then Ontario Deregulation won't permit that.  Greyhound would still require a licence to run via A-20 from the CTQ to do so, something it doesn't have today.

The Ontario Northland Transportation Commission (ONTC) and Metrolinx (which operates GO Transit) are public sector agencies of the Ontario government that provide bus services between communities. Both agencies are exempt from the requirement to obtain a public vehicle licence.

In essence, the ONTC could start running to Thunder Bay tomorrow if they wanted to.

More on how MTO is reviewing intercity bus:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/transit/intercity-bus-proposal.shtml

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/transit/intercity-bus.shtml

[Swadian]

14 hours ago, TheAverageJoe said:

Only thing that will happen is that Coach Canada will want to run Megabus service to Ottawa, London and Windsor from Toronto. Would fill the gaps in linking Canada and USA current Megabus service.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[TheAverageJoe]

6 hours ago, Swadian said:

I'll believe it when I see it.

Few years ago Coach Canada tried to apply to get service to London but was shot down.

[MCIBUS]

I would love to see Megabus between Ottawa & Toronto. One catch is there enough traffic between Ottawa & Toronto to warrent it? The only catch is I don't think Coach Canada would run their DD Buses(probably use 45' MCI?Prevost) as  Bus Terminal at the Central Bus Terminal  where passengers get on & off is to low to fit the DD Buses?

 

Assuming Coach Canada does begin running Mega between Ottawa-Kingston-Toronto, which route would they take?

 

417-416-401? or 417-7-(not sure which route after that as I've seen it go two ways after the stop at the Log Cabin  rest stop) turn left at the next turn off then head off towards  the 401 or go straight towards Peterborough then towards the 401? 

[Articulated]

20 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

I would love to see Megabus between Ottawa & Toronto. One catch is there enough traffic between Ottawa & Toronto to warrent it? The only catch is I don't think Coach Canada would run their DD Buses(probably use 45' MCI?Prevost) as  Bus Terminal at the Central Bus Terminal  where passengers get on & off is to low to fit the DD Buses?

 

Assuming Coach Canada does begin running Mega between Ottawa-Kingston-Toronto, which route would they take?

 

417-416-401? or 417-7-(not sure which route after that as I've seen it go two ways after the stop at the Log Cabin  rest stop) turn left at the next turn off then head off towards  the 401 or go straight towards Peterborough then towards the 401? 

Greyhound takes two routes between Toronto and Ottawa - the express routing (basically only in Toronto, Scarborough, and Ottawa) would usually take the DVP-401-416-417 routing. Some Greyhound buses take Highway 7 between Ottawa and Peterborough, with typically one bus per direction per day making local stops to serve the communities along Highway 7.

As for any theoretical Megabus service, the routing would depend on the communities served. If they wanted a Toronto-Kingston-Ottawa route, then they would take the DVP-401-416-417 route. If they wanted to serve Peterborough, they would take DVP-401-115-7. Peterborough is already served by both Greyhound and GO, so I would imagine Megabus wouldn't be too willing to start a competing service there.

[Uwe]

Greyhound runs all of its Toronto-Ottawa express service via 115-7 (they used to run 401-37-7, but the reliability of the 401 keeps them on Hwy 7).  It is ~50kms less per directions compared to 401/416.  This translates into reduced fuel, maintenance, and labour as all are costs based on mileage.  The only service that operates via 401/15/16 is the once a day Toronto-Trenton-Belleville-Kingston-SmithFalls(X24)/Brockville(24)-Ottawa, and that is purely to protect the corridor licenses.

These are private businesses; costs drive everything as margins are low.  Why does Greyhound use Hwy 7 for Ottawa-Toronto?  Because it is 10% cheaper to operate.  Why does Greyhound keep running a Toronto-Trenton-Belleville-Kingston-SmithFalls/Brockville-Ottawa and Ottawa-Cornwall services?  To prevent competitors from moving in and eroding revenues on the cash cows.  

[MCIBUS]

Greyhound does have competion between Ottawa & Cornwall. It depends on how you look at it. Delaney Bus Lines runs a commuter run(I think two in morning  to Ottawa & two in the afternoon to Cornwall)Monday to Friday.They run it under as a  Partnership with OC Transpo(our local transit system)as part of the "Rural Route Partnership"

Route 515 Cornwall-Ottawa

Route 516 Finch-Ottawa-Gatineau

Route 517 Alexandria-Ottawa-Gatineau

 

Now grant you I'm not sure if you'd actually call it competing with Greyhound or not?

 

There few other Coach companies as well 417,Leduc and a few others from places like Hawksberry,Carelton Place Smith Falls, etc areas near the Naational Capital Region that you might say compete with Greyhound although these are usally 1 or 2 runs in the morning(Ottawa) & afternoon(opposite way) Monday to Friday excluding weekeends and holidays.

 

Like I said not sure uif you can count Commuter services" as competion to Greyhound?

 

See link for other services to Ottawa from Rural Routes:

http://www.octranspo.com/routes/rural_partner_routes

 

[Centralsmt]

12 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

I would love to see Megabus between Ottawa & Toronto. One catch is there enough traffic between Ottawa & Toronto to warrent it? The only catch is I don't think Coach Canada would run their DD Buses(probably use 45' MCI?Prevost) as  Bus Terminal at the Central Bus Terminal  where passengers get on & off is to low to fit the DD Buses?

 

Assuming Coach Canada does begin running Mega between Ottawa-Kingston-Toronto, which route would they take?

 

417-416-401? or 417-7-(not sure which route after that as I've seen it go two ways after the stop at the Log Cabin  rest stop) turn left at the next turn off then head off towards  the 401 or go straight towards Peterborough then towards the 401? 

Megabus tend to use on street terminals and not use bus stations, thus avoiding arrival and departure fees, to keep costs down.

[IRT_BMT_IND]

On 2/19/2017 at 4:56 PM, MCIBUS said:

Greyhound does have competion between Ottawa & Cornwall. It depends on how you look at it. Delaney Bus Lines runs a commuter run(I think two in morning  to Ottawa & two in the afternoon to Cornwall)Monday to Friday.They run it under as a  Partnership with OC Transpo(our local transit system)as part of the "Rural Route Partnership"

Route 515 Cornwall-Ottawa

Route 516 Finch-Ottawa-Gatineau

Route 517 Alexandria-Ottawa-Gatineau

 

Now grant you I'm not sure if you'd actually call it competing with Greyhound or not?

 

There few other Coach companies as well 417,Leduc and a few others from places like Hawksberry,Carelton Place Smith Falls, etc areas near the Naational Capital Region that you might say compete with Greyhound although these are usally 1 or 2 runs in the morning(Ottawa) & afternoon(opposite way) Monday to Friday excluding weekeends and holidays.

 

Like I said not sure uif you can count Commuter services" as competion to Greyhound?

 

See link for other services to Ottawa from Rural Routes:

http://www.octranspo.com/routes/rural_partner_routes

 

I think the Cornwall-Ottawa services are only available to passholders, you can't just pay a single fare.

[roeco]

On 2/11/2017 at 0:36 PM, Swadian said:

...which is basically why Greyhound cut it. Greyhound doesn't have Sprinters.

Camrose service was serviced initially on the Macklin route but it was cut in 2011 and was contracted then. 

[Megabus Rider]

Coach Canada was looking to conduct intercity service between Toronto and Ottawa with a transfer in Kingston under Megabus. However, when Voyageur was operating between Toronto and Ottawa, their license had a wording that Coach Canada could not operate such service. Now, Greyhound has that license and that still stands. You can read more at this link: http://www.ohtb.gov.on.ca/eng/open/OHTB-Annual-Report-2014-En.pdf

and scroll to page 12.

[dev161]

On 2017-07-18 at 7:54 PM, NeOn Bus Rider said:

Coach Canada was looking to conduct intercity service between Toronto and Ottawa with a transfer in Kingston under Megabus. However, when Voyageur was operating between Toronto and Ottawa, their license had a wording that Coach Canada could not operate such service. Now, Greyhound has that license and that still stands. You can read more at this link: http://www.ohtb.gov.on.ca/eng/open/OHTB-Annual-Report-2014-En.pdf

and scroll to page 12.

So if it specificly states that TWL cant operate it , does that mean if another company wanted to apply for the license they could potentially be able to compete against greyhound 

[Uwe]

TWI can't operate the service between Ottawa/Carleton Place and Toronto/Mississauga with the license based on current wording.  They can apply to remove the restriction or apply for a new license to operate a service.

Anyone can apply to operate a service, they just need to fulfill Public Need and Convenience:.http://www.ohtb.gov.on.ca/eng/forms/public.pdf

[Megabus Rider]

On 7/23/2017 at 0:12 PM, dev161 said:

So if it specificly states that TWL cant operate it , does that mean if another company wanted to apply for the license they could potentially be able to compete against greyhound 

Well, the license states they can't operate from Toronto/Mississauga to Ottawa and wherever Kanata Town Centre is located. They can operate in Durham Region like Oshawa to Gatineau, QC. Of course, Public Vehicles Act applies and they would have apply to operate and gain public support.

On 7/23/2017 at 3:22 PM, Uwe said:

TWI can't operate the service between Ottawa/Carleton Place and Toronto/Mississauga with the license based on current wording.  They can apply to remove the restriction or apply for a new license to operate a service.

Anyone can apply to operate a service, they just need to fulfill Public Need and Convenience:.http://www.ohtb.gov.on.ca/eng/forms/public.pdf

That's gonna be a long shot! lol

[tomsbuspage]

14 hours ago, NeOn Bus Rider said:

Well, the license states they can't operate from Toronto/Mississauga to Ottawa and wherever Kanata Town Centre is located. They can operate in Durham Region like Oshawa to Gatineau, QC. Of course, Public Vehicles Act applies and they would have apply to operate and gain public support.

That's interesting, as Greyhound no longer serve the Kanata Town Centre on Katimavik Road anymore, moving their Kanata stop to Terry Fox Transitway Station and Kanata Centrum.

[Shaun]

Service keeps getting better and better. Go Greyhound!

[JCWhite]

Old topic here, hoping there are some people who still follow it. 

Has anyone heard any updates in regards to this? I've looked through the MTO website, and can find lots of info on the discussion, and public meetings and drop in sessions. However, I can not find any info on timeline for this, or if they have announced anything towards a decision.

[roeco]

It was announced that Ontario govt is giving 40 mill for rural bus service. A partnership has blossomed between Ontario Northland and Kasper Transportation to add more services to areas not serviced by Bus. Fort Frances and better service to hearst are a few.

[Megabus Rider]

It seems Deregulation is coming to reality under the Ford Government!

Schedule 16
Ontario Highway Transport Board REPEAL ACT, 2020

The Schedule enacts the Ontario Highway Transport Board Repeal Act, 2020, which dissolves the Ontario Highway Transport Board and repeals the Ontario Highway Transport Board Act. It authorizes the Minister of Transportation to make transitional regulations to phase out the Act’s application before it is repealed.

https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-42/session-1/bill-213

It's currently going through second reading!

[MCIBUS]

So does mean(once the act is changed & implemented)that Megabus can run between Ottawa & Toronto competing against Greyhound?

[Megabus Rider]

8 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

So does mean(once the act is changed & implemented)that Megabus can run between Ottawa & Toronto competing against Greyhound?

It seems they can. While it does not mention the process of deregulation, if it will be exactly like the US or the Government will control on how many companies can do the same route, it does pave the way for Flixbus and Ourbus to operate in Ontario.

I noted this language:

(b)  prescribing requirements, qualifications and standards for owners, lessees and operators of passenger transportation vehicles and for persons who accept, facilitate, broker requests for, advertise or offer transportation in passenger transportation vehicles;

Since Flixbus and Ourbus function as brokers and facillitate runs, the Public Vehicles Act prohibits companies like Flixbus and Ourbus from operating, with the Act being repealed, that allows Flixbus and Ourbus to legally operate in Ontario. However, they may face prohibition in Quebec since Quebec has similar regulation like Ontario.

[Megabus Rider]

The OMCA has been in consultation with the Government about the deregulation.

Some Highlights: it's expected for the Bill to pass by Christmas, the new rules will be implemented by July 1, 2021 and the goal of repealing the Ontario Highway Transport Board Act is to eliminated the Ontario Highway Transport Board completely.

I am thinking they will adapt the same system as New York State, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Ohio and other states that grant Operating Authority to do Intrastate runs, meaning the MTO will grant 'Operating Authority for those who wish to do runs within the province under a new Act and the HTA.

https://www.omca.com/news-publications/news/economic-de-regulation-update/

[sdgta2008]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:57 PM, Megabus Rider said:

The OMCA has been in consultation with the Government about the deregulation.

Some Highlights: it's expected for the Bill to pass by Christmas, the new rules will be implemented by July 1, 2021 and the goal of repealing the Ontario Highway Transport Board Act is to eliminated the Ontario Highway Transport Board completely.

I am thinking they will adapt the same system as New York State, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Ohio and other states that grant Operating Authority to do Intrastate runs, meaning the MTO will grant 'Operating Authority for those who wish to do runs within the province under a new Act and the HTA.

https://www.omca.com/news-publications/news/economic-de-regulation-update/

This is excellent news for areas that are under served where Greyhound is the law of the land 

[MCIBUS]

Me thinks this is the last nail in Greyhounds coffin? I could be wrong but I suspect Greyhound will likely pull out of Canada, rather competing with carriers and possibly loosing even more money by lowering prices.