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Réseau de transport de Longueuil


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On 11/6/2022 at 12:03 PM, RTL_45 said:

However, I think they should have just put the new (non-temporary) signs up for the 59 stops already, instead of warning people of a change that has already happened (destination from TCV to Panama, though electronic signs also still say TCV).

Just confirmed that they did just what I suggested for the 3/59 combined bus stop flags, but not the 59-only ones.

On another note, I've noticed that there are blank bus stop flags in various locations, especially on Kimber heading towards Gaetan-Boucher. I looked on Wayback Machine and could not find an STRSM/RTL route on that street since at least 2000. Was this part of an older routing of the 50 or 59?

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  • 2 weeks later...

As of November 21 2022, RTL has introduced route 462, using a trajectory similar to route 461, but extended to Maisonneuve-Rosemont hospital:

https://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/fr-CA/actualites/avis-a-la-clientele/2022/navette-sante-462/

I also saw a desk with an empty glass display case on top and the RTL logo at Terminus Longueuil in front of the metro entrance. I guess we'll know what that's all about in the coming days.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/13/2022 at 11:09 AM, RTL_45 said:

On another note, I've noticed that there are blank bus stop flags in various locations, especially on Kimber heading towards Gaetan-Boucher. I looked on Wayback Machine and could not find an STRSM/RTL route on that street since at least 2000. Was this part of an older routing of the 50 or 59?

Those are school extra stops.

On 11/8/2022 at 6:18 PM, RTL_45 said:

And for comparison purposes, here is the schedule for the first and only STRSM night service from January 1 2000: http://web.archive.org/web/20000607133726/http://www.strsm.qc.ca/chroniques/99-12.html

That's a very good find as I wasn't aware of this precedent. The so-called "turn of the millenium" and celebrating Y2K was a big deal at the time. Wasn't it also on 31 December 1999 that the metro exceptionally ran all night? The fact that the RTL has not attempted to offer overnight service since then is telling. There have been exceptions of course. The famous U2 concerts at Blue Bonnets forced the RTL to send special 45 and 90 departures to TCV to meet the last metro at Bonaventure (I remember seeing them cross the old Champlain Bridge beyond 2 am as I was on my way home). The Amazon shuttle for the fulfilment centre near YHU airport (internally numbered 209) ran 24 hours a day until their parking lot was expanded. Ultimately, the Amazon shuttles "209" and "210" (the latter to Metro Longueuil) was replaced by the 428.

On 11/22/2022 at 12:08 AM, RTL_45 said:

As of November 21 2022, RTL has introduced route 462, using a trajectory similar to route 461, but extended to Maisonneuve-Rosemont hospital:

https://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/fr-CA/actualites/avis-a-la-clientele/2022/navette-sante-462/

I also saw a desk with an empty glass display case on top and the RTL logo at Terminus Longueuil in front of the metro entrance. I guess we'll know what that's all about in the coming days.

The 462 has since been extended. See:

https://rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/fr-CA/actualites/avis-a-la-clientele/2022/circuit-bonifie-navette-sante-462/

As for the desk, there was a job recruitment campaign recently to address a staff shortfall.

On 11/6/2022 at 12:03 PM, RTL_45 said:

 (destination from TCV to Panama, though electronic signs also still say TCV).

That is just operator sloppiness and supervisors turning a blind eye to proper route sign up. There is indeed a 59 Terminus Panama sign. Very few operators seem to care.

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On 12/15/2022 at 1:27 PM, SMS said:

The fact that the RTL has not attempted to offer overnight service since then is telling.

It would be exceptional for a suburban transit system. Having seen how dead Taschereau can be at 0400, I do wonder how popular it would be. Then again, in that case we had to use a taxi to return from the hospital to home, something we could have done with the 54 and 5 (354 and 305?).

I wonder if the RTL will retire its artics once the REM is operational?

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48 minutes ago, RTL_45 said:

It would be exceptional for a suburban transit system. Having seen how dead Taschereau can be at 0400, I do wonder how popular it would be. Then again, in that case we had to use a taxi to return from the hospital to home […]

The initial night network would have to be designed very carefully. I would imagine, however, that the REM stations, Longueuil métro station, the two hospitals, any workplaces with overnight shift times, and places with a high concentration with bars/pubs/etc. would be the first destinations to be served.

A night network along the métro and the REM would be extra interesting, I think, over the long term, those could potentially generate trips that currently aren't possible but should be desirable.

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On 11/6/2022 at 1:49 AM, downbeat said:

REM%202022%20tableau%20avis%20client.png

[...] What do you guys think?

The fact that the base is paper means that it is non-reflective at night. I have memorized most bus stop locations so it isn't really a problem for me. I do feel bad for new drivers though who potentially could be missing the bus stops due to the lack of visibility. The frame of these stops are somewhat reflective, but nothing compared to the metal (possibly aluminum?) of standard bus stops.

The 3/59 stops on Montgomery were alluded to in the discussion above. There is no real change to these routes as it stands. Only the pictograms will have changed, so they could put the new flags up immediately. This isn't the case everywhere obviously.

3 hours ago, RTL_45 said:

It would be exceptional for a suburban transit system.

I wonder if the RTL will retire its artics once the REM is operational?

MiWay, which has a comparable number of buses to RTL, has certain routes running 24 hours a day, or very close to it. Then again, there are easily 300k more persons living in Mississauga than the agglomeration of Longueuil. Furthermore, Mississauga has important trip generators such as business parks and YYZ airport.

STLaval can boast of their overnight route 2 since the metro opened there in 2007. It is shameful that no such parallel service exists for the yellow line.

Artics... rumour (I cannot stress this word enough) is that the expansion joints of the current Bonaventure Expressway and old Champlain Bridge have taken their toll on these buses and they will be retired once the 45 is abolished. Another rumour I've heard is that these buses could be used on the 461 (although I hardly doubt the actual ridership justifies these vehicles). I personally believe that 410 Express Roland-Therrien would be an excellent contender for these vehicles but nobody seems to want to listen to good sense. Bottom line, the artics are on borrowed time and I would not bet that these vehicles will live to see their 16th birthday.

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2 hours ago, SMS said:

Artics... rumour (I cannot stress this word enough) is that the expansion joints of the current Bonaventure Expressway and old Champlain Bridge have taken their toll on these buses and they will be retired once the 45 is abolished. Another rumour I've heard is that these buses could be used on the 461 (although I hardly doubt the actual ridership justifies these vehicles). I personally believe that 410 Express Roland-Therrien would be an excellent contender for these vehicles but nobody seems to want to listen to good sense. Bottom line, the artics are on borrowed time and I would not bet that these vehicles will live to see their 16th birthday.

Considering the population density there, personally I see no point keeping articulated buses. They're just extra demanding wrt maintenance (for so few oddballs in a whole sea of 40 ft Novas), and it's always better to offer a more frequent service with 40 footers instead if the goal is to attract riders... up to a certain point. I don't think the 410 is that crowded and frequent to justify artics as it stands. In addition, articulated buses in general don't last as long as equivalent 40 footer buses, so 16 years is a bit of stretch for them. For instance, the stm is having great difficulties keeping their artics on the road at the moment.

Whenever I think of articulated buses, I keep looking at the 45 Papineau... every half hourly off-peak with artics (although this will change in January - but it will for sure not regain its former frequency). I'm pretty sure the service reduction from introducing artics have driven riders away, and then it just becomes a vicious circle.

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On 12/20/2022 at 5:51 PM, downbeat said:

The initial night network would have to be designed very carefully. I would imagine, however, that the REM stations, Longueuil métro station, the two hospitals, any workplaces with overnight shift times, and places with a high concentration with bars/pubs/etc. would be the first destinations to be served.

A night network along the métro and the REM would be extra interesting, I think, over the long term, those could potentially generate trips that currently aren't possible but should be desirable.

After some consideration, maybe a good initiative would be to follow the RTC Quebec example and offer a minimum of service on a Friday and Saturday night. Even one sole tripper to address a bar rush could address demand that never was properly addressed. Services crossing the river could potentially offer 30-60 minute service. I don't think it is a big ask to have 3 buses cross the Jacques-Cartier Bridge after the last yellow line train. Example, if the last metro to Longueuil leaves Berri at 130 am, I don't think it is unreasonable to have buses leave (say) Papineau at 230 am, 330 am, and 430 am. First train leaves at 530 am. Such trips could be created from late relief crews or early morning starts. If ridership trends increase, the service can follow as well. The soon to be abolished 45 could have an overnight successor. I don't think that a 30-45 min headway when the REM is closed would be wholly unreasonable.

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59 minutes ago, SMS said:

After some consideration, maybe a good initiative would be to follow the RTC Quebec example and offer a minimum of service on a Friday and Saturday night. […] I don't think it is a big ask to have 3 buses cross the Jacques-Cartier Bridge after the last yellow line train. Example, if the last metro to Longueuil leaves Berri at 130 am, I don't think it is unreasonable to have buses leave (say) Papineau at 230 am, 330 am, and 430 am. First train leaves at 530 am. […] I don't think that a 30-45 min headway when the REM is closed would be wholly unreasonable.

Agree 100%!

You have to start somewhere and build up from there. Even STM, for a long time, had some night bus routes that only ran Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights — by the clock/calendar, that would be very early Friday, Saturday and Sunday — before all were upgraded to 7-night service sometime in the last few years.

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On 12/20/2022 at 8:59 PM, SMS said:

STLaval can boast of their overnight route 2 since the metro opened there in 2007. It is shameful that no such parallel service exists for the yellow line.

The STL also offers a 0245 departure from Metro Cartier for the 73 Fabreville on weekdays, and 0150 and 0250 on Saturday night. And I thought the RTL would have been first, but I guess not. As it stands, it seems the latest RTL run is the departure of route 81 from Terminus Longueuil at 0150, looping around western Boucherville and finishing its run at 0235.

Whenever I looked at the lines for the 76/410/417 at Terminus Longueuil they did not seem as long as the line for the 1558 departure of the 45 at TCV for example. In fact a 410/417 I saw leaving Terminus Longueuil just before 1800 last Tuesday appeared to be "just right" with no standees! I'm actually more concerned about the 42/60. All I saw at 1500/1600 last Monday were crushloads. Let's see how the 160 can help address that.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good day everyone, it is the first time I write in this forum.

Yesterday I saw a bus with fleet number 221XX of RTL with the LED display turned on inside the bus compartment. I saw the display when I was on the sidewalk and the bus passed me quite fast. Therefore, I could not see clearly whether the LED display was showing next stop or other thing. I am a bit surprised since the LED displays of the 221XX series were always off/black but the one I saw yesterday was on and showing white background.

Does anyone know when the next stop announcement system will be installed and commissioned?

Does the LED display display multiple colours?

In winter night, it is always difficult to know when I should get off the bus since the window is usually covered by dust and snow. I really hope that the management can speed up the progress of this project.

Initially, they said in the press below that they planned to do it in 2020. How much longer do we have to wait?

https://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/en-CA/news/press-release/2019/stay-informed-with-chrono/?w=y

 

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Does anyone know what is name of the device below the chrono touch screen next to the steering wheel?

What are the uses of this device?

(photo from RTL facebook)

Untitled.thumb.png.21756be1b5988f54a94b4e34eff0e02d.png

Sorry for making 3 replies within short period of time but I think it would be better to ask questions of different themes separately.

Why do the destination signs of the RTL buses display the route name instead of the names of the streets on which the route runs and the destination?

For example, route 410 runs between Terminus Longueuil and Secteur B via Boulevard Roland-Therrien. I think it would be better to display "Roland-Therrien/Secteur B" when the bus is going to Secteur B or "Roland-Therrien/Terminus Longueuil" when the bus is going to Terminus Longueuil.

The current practice is displaying "Roland Therrien/Secteur B/Terminus Longueuil" whichever direction the bus is going.

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20 hours ago, Mueller said:

Yesterday I saw a bus with fleet number 221XX of RTL with the LED display turned on inside the bus compartment. I saw the display when I was on the sidewalk and the bus passed me quite fast. Therefore, I could not see clearly whether the LED display was showing next stop or other thing. I am a bit surprised since the LED displays of the 221XX series were always off/black but the one I saw yesterday was on and showing white background.

20220906_103417.thumb.jpg.18845d3808898a73f30886231980782a.jpg

This is the display you're talking about. I haven't seen them show anything other than this. Trying to implement such a system as they proposed would be too perilous at this time as not even all 221xx have these displays (22101 has a bilingual "stop requested / arret demande" sign instead). As it stands the OPUS reader replacement program is progressing slow enough (I only saw one in use once, on October 31, on 22102 - I've yet to see them on 213xx/215xx/217xx/218xx and even other 22xxx I've taken). I'd think this is even farther down in the queue.

20 hours ago, Mueller said:

Why do the destination signs of the RTL buses display the route name instead of the names of the streets on which the route runs and the destination?

For example, route 410 runs between Terminus Longueuil and Secteur B via Boulevard Roland-Therrien. I think it would be better to display "Roland-Therrien/Secteur B" when the bus is going to Secteur B or "Roland-Therrien/Terminus Longueuil" when the bus is going to Terminus Longueuil.

I think some of the signs are set up that way, but I think it was more common with roll signs and the early Balios signs on the Nova Classics (for example, I remember "TCV / Nazareth" on Classics). Most RTL routes don't have a long list of signed destinations so there is probably not much benefit to doing so. As it stands there are enough buses signing incorrect destinations (34 and 59 to TCV) so I'd suspect this would not go over well either.

Personally I'm just glad that the faint Balios signs on the 9-6xx to 204xx are a thing of the past.

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9 hours ago, RTL_45 said:

20220906_103417.thumb.jpg.18845d3808898a73f30886231980782a.jpg

This is the display you're talking about. I haven't seen them show anything other than this. Trying to implement such a system as they proposed would be too perilous at this time as not even all 221xx have these displays (22101 has a bilingual "stop requested / arret demande" sign instead). As it stands the OPUS reader replacement program is progressing slow enough (I only saw one in use once, on October 31, on 22102 - I've yet to see them on 213xx/215xx/217xx/218xx and even other 22xxx I've taken). I'd think this is even farther down in the queue.

Thank you for your sharing. I am a bit surprised that 22101 is different from other 221XX's that 22101 is not fitted with the next stop display screen.

 

For the new OPUS reader, I saw at least one on 209XX. And maybe one on 207XX, not very sure. But I wonder if RTL should install new OPUS readers on the 207XX's coz they may soon be retired.

 

A new feature of the new OPUS reader is that when a passenger taps the OPUS card containing a valid ticket/fare on the reader, the chrono touch screen next to the steering wheel will display a green horizontal bar. Otherwise, a red horizontal bar will be displayed. A good feature for the driver to know if the passengers have valid tickets.

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On 12/25/2022 at 12:06 PM, RTL_45 said:

Whenever I looked at the lines for the 76/410/417 at Terminus Longueuil they did not seem as long as the line for the 1558 departure of the 45 at TCV for example. In fact a 410/417 I saw leaving Terminus Longueuil just before 1800 last Tuesday appeared to be "just right" with no standees!

I'm not going to comment on something that can change from day to day.

On 12/25/2022 at 12:06 PM, RTL_45 said:

I'm actually more concerned about the 42/60. All I saw at 1500/1600 last Monday were crushloads. Let's see how the 160 can help address that.

I've done some research with what the RTL hopes to achieve with a planned REM booking (board period) on weekdays. When the REM opens, the Milan/Gaétan-Boucher corridor will see the service beefed up. I believe that currently, the 42 and 60 on the current shared corridor between Broadway in Brossard and Cousineau in St-Hubert have a blended 10 min average service in the peak direction. This will be halved to 5 min service when the REM opens in the peak direction, with the 42 every 10 mins and the 60 and 160 every 20 mins apiece. I believe that midday, the service will be every 15 mins as a combined average (half hourly for 42, hourly for 60 and 160 apiece). The Milan and Gaétan-Boucher corridor will offer the most frequent service operating out of Garage St-Hubert.

The RTL is struggling to address actual demand due to woefully inadequate schedules and a lack of drivers. Certain trips have been doubled but there is not much more that we can do. The ARTM budget has effectively tied our hands.

On 1/7/2023 at 2:44 PM, Mueller said:

Does anyone know when the next stop announcement system will be installed and commissioned? (...) Initially, they said in the press below that they planned to do it in 2020. How much longer do we have to wait? https://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/en-CA/news/press-release/2019/stay-informed-with-chrono/?w=y

 

You're right to be impatient and peeved. No news have been given to drivers. I would happily say so in this forum if there were news. I guess management has their priorities elsewhere. For instance, we lack electricians in this company. This is why many buses are going about with broken fare boxes and/or OPUS card readers. Until this issue is resolved, I cannot see the company accelerating the next stop screens or announcement system. You can see how much the pandemic has screwed things over.

On 1/7/2023 at 3:07 PM, Mueller said:

Does anyone know what is name of the device below the chrono touch screen next to the steering wheel?

What are the uses of this device?

The manufacturer is ACS and this controls the farebox and destination sign. These are being phased out in favour of the new reader via the Chrono screen. I will answer more questions later.

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On 1/7/2023 at 3:07 PM, Mueller said:

Why do the destination signs of the RTL buses display the route name instead of the names of the streets on which the route runs and the destination?

For example, route 410 runs between Terminus Longueuil and Secteur B via Boulevard Roland-Therrien. I think it would be better to display "Roland-Therrien/Secteur B" when the bus is going to Secteur B or "Roland-Therrien/Terminus Longueuil" when the bus is going to Terminus Longueuil.

The current practice is displaying "Roland Therrien/Secteur B/Terminus Longueuil" whichever direction the bus is going.

I don't think that route names have as much importance on the South Shore as they do on the island. It is important to make that distinction because the route numbers at the RTL have more importance than their purported names. In Montreal, the route name practically goes back to the tramways. 55 St-Laurent is the direct successor of a streetcar operating with the same number. The south shore has a shorter and more recent history of course. The RTL (formerly STRSM) is formed by the fusion or merger of two companies, Chambly Transport and Metropolitain Sud. I am unaware if there was any route number duplication, but this certainly would have not been allowed after 1974. To use an example of today, if someone were to inquire about a "Taschereau" bus, I would retort "which one?" Currently, there are three services (4, 54, 77), all with different destinations at either end, or at least the routing it takes to get to the terminal. It is just commonly known that the Grande-Allée bus is the 21, and that the Curé-Poirier bus is the 71. Furthermore, nobody refers to the 44 as the Sect. M-N-O bus, for instance. Even the RTL twitter feed never seems to mention route names. The only route name that seems to have caught on is the Express Chevrier 90 due to the AMT's aggressive marketing campaign. Therefore, in my opinion, route names are largely irrelevant at the RTL.

Here is an example of the last generation of roll sign which made it on late generation New Looks as well as GM and MCI Classics:

https://www.rollsigngallery.com/011-Quebec/Longueuil/page011-Longueuil.html

With rollsigns, the destinations forced the driver to change the sign at the end of the route. Few of the operators cared enough to do so. Some operators just ran it blank, only displaying the route number. Note that the rollsign rarely ever displayed a street name. Most of these were bus terminals, metro stations, or municipalities, some dating back to the hors-territoire era before the CITs were formed. This helps prove my argument.

Here are examples of a rollsign equipped bus properly signed up:

http://www.busfanplace.com/view.php?pict=sr9-031b.jpg

http://www.busfanplace.com/view.php?pict=sr9-053.jpg

Originally when the destination signs became electronic (red LED Hector Balios) following the rollsigns, the driver had to manually punch in between Dest A and Dest B. Let us say for sake of argument that A was the major terminal such as Terminus Longueuil or auto parc Panama, and B was the bout de ligne. However, driver laziness also kicked in, forcing management to act. A decision was made well over 12 years ago that instead of requiring the driver to keep changing the sign every trip, all destinations would be displayed. If the trip did not return to terminal, a code could be punched to indicate Fin de parcours (most likely bus deadheading to garage or some other point).

Here are examples of a Hector Balios equipped bus properly signed up:

http://www.busfanplace.com/view.php?pict=sr9-407a.jpg

http://www.busfanplace.com/view.php?pict=sr9-418.jpg

There does not appear to be any desire to improve the destination sign programming, let alone correct the panoply of mistakes and omissions that already exist. There is definitely room for improvement.

Having directional destination signs to change with GPS could be possible but we do not use a CAD/AVL system as is currently available elsewhere. OC Transpo does, but beware as this is not 100% effective.

On 1/8/2023 at 12:25 PM, RTL_45 said:

I think some of the signs are set up that way, but I think it was more common with roll signs and the early Balios signs on the Nova Classics (for example, I remember "TCV / Nazareth" on Classics).

Nazareth AFAIK was never programmed into any destination sign. I admit that Cité Multimédia would have been a useful exposure (at least in AM rush), but it never caught on.

On 1/8/2023 at 10:38 PM, Mueller said:

For the new OPUS reader, I saw at least one on 209XX. And maybe one on 207XX, not very sure. But I wonder if RTL should install new OPUS readers on the 207XX's coz they may soon be retired.

Logically, you would think they would start with the newest buses and work their way backwards. But this would imply intelligence at the highest levels.

On 1/8/2023 at 10:38 PM, Mueller said:

A new feature of the new OPUS reader is that when a passenger taps the OPUS card containing a valid ticket/fare on the reader, the chrono touch screen next to the steering wheel will display a green horizontal bar. Otherwise, a red horizontal bar will be displayed. A good feature for the driver to know if the passengers have valid tickets.

Sadly, fare evasion will continue regardless of whatever technologies or conveniences are thrown the way of the passenger.

On 1/12/2023 at 9:22 PM, Mueller said:

Today, the device below the chrono touch screen (inside the red circle in the picture below) of 20838 disappeared. Does anyone know the reason for removing that device?

As mentioned above, and just to clear it up, the original device has been rendered obsolete and redundant once the new fare reader is installed.

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2 hours ago, SMS said:

The manufacturer is ACS and this controls the farebox and destination sign. These are being phased out in favour of the new reader via the Chrono screen. I will answer more questions later.

@SMS Your detailed response is much appreciated.

At this moment I have just two follow up questions. I have to spend some time to read your response. The information about roll sign is very interesting.

After installing the new OPUS reader and removing the old device from ACS, how does the operator control the destination sign? Does he/she have to manually input the route number at the destination sign console? I mean this one:

Untitled.thumb.png.b8b1f6b858147d19b9f2f0092e2bcd36.png

 

I guess the Chrono screen will automatically set the destination sign, right?

And, before each trip, does the operator have to manually select any route number at the Chrono screen?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

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On 1/18/2023 at 2:37 PM, SMS said:

[...] Therefore, in my opinion, route names are largely irrelevant at the RTL.
[...]
There does not appear to be any desire to improve the destination sign programming, let alone correct the panoply of mistakes and omissions that already exist. There is definitely room for improvement.

That explains why they are able to get away with "75 McGill" on the large departure boards at Terminus Longueuil. In this case it does cross a McGill street, but it's a very insignificant part of the route. At first when I saw that I wondered if it actually went to McGill Metro!

On 1/18/2023 at 2:37 PM, SMS said:

But this would imply intelligence at the highest levels.

Interestingly your rollsign link indicates that the STRSM was renamed STL then renamed again shortly after due to confusion with the STLaval. So it is not a new problem.

Edited by RTL_45
Retracted my statement based on evidence below.
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On 1/18/2023 at 2:37 PM, SMS said:

I don't think that route names have as much importance on the South Shore as they do on the island. It is important to make that distinction because the route numbers at the RTL have more importance than their purported names. In Montreal, the route name practically goes back to the tramways. 55 St-Laurent is the direct successor of a streetcar operating with the same number. The south shore has a shorter and more recent history of course. The RTL (formerly STRSM) is formed by the fusion or merger of two companies, Chambly Transport and Metropolitain Sud. I am unaware if there was any route number duplication, but this certainly would have not been allowed after 1974. To use an example of today, if someone were to inquire about a "Taschereau" bus, I would retort "which one?" Currently, there are three services (4, 54, 77), all with different destinations at either end, or at least the routing it takes to get to the terminal. It is just commonly known that the Grande-Allée bus is the 21, and that the Curé-Poirier bus is the 71. Furthermore, nobody refers to the 44 as the Sect. M-N-O bus, for instance. Even the RTL twitter feed never seems to mention route names. The only route name that seems to have caught on is the Express Chevrier 90 due to the AMT's aggressive marketing campaign. Therefore, in my opinion, route names are largely irrelevant at the RTL.

Plus inheriting 7 routes from STCUM at the start of 1986; those routes were slightly modified and renamed.

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On 1/18/2023 at 5:42 PM, RTL_45 said:

Interestingly your rollsign link indicates that the STRSM was renamed STL then renamed again shortly after due to confusion with the STLaval. So it is not a new problem.

Over the 10 propreties that are "Société de transport" in the province, 7 operates with their proper name, three however have different legal and public facing name

Réseau de Transport de la Capitale (RTC) is actually Société de transport de Québec, it is what it is written on the registration certificate
Réseau de Transport de Longueuil (RTL) is actually Société de transport de Longueuil
exo is actually Réseau de Transport Métropolitain

 

image.thumb.png.ee9b2287142c5da72ac2a6dea54f46f4.png

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On 1/18/2023 at 3:17 PM, Mueller said:

After installing the new OPUS reader and removing the old device from ACS, how does the operator control the destination sign? Does he/she have to manually input the route number at the destination sign console? I mean this one:

Untitled.thumb.png.b8b1f6b858147d19b9f2f0092e2bcd36.png

 

Today I got to drive 20903 on the 13 (I am exceptionally on spare board this week) with the new reader. This is how it works. All drivers are required to log in to the Chrono system* using their badge number (matricule) and their run number (numéro de voiture), the latter which is never displayed on buses. For the destination sign there is an auto and a manual mode. Unfortunately it isn't a perfect system quite yet. If I leave it in auto leaving the garage, it will display code 2000 for En Transit, for the deadhead from gash to parc. Fine, no problem. It becomes a problem when the time comes to get to the platform and the bus is still signed up as ET. OK, one hiccup, no big deal. I manually punch in the route 13 on the Chrono screen. Later on route, I try switching it to auto. When I get to Terminus Longueuil (between 2 trips of 13), the bus signs back out to ET. At this point, this becomes not only inefficient but frustrating. The way I like to look at our desto signs, just set it and forget it. Given the inconvenience, I just keep the sign on manual mode as I like to be in control and clearly the computer just doesn't get it.

Having said all of this, an operator can manually override everything by punching in the route number on the ODK. However for the purposes of transfers, this is best controlled by the Chrono unit. Example: you are on chemin de Chambly and you have bought 6 tickets. The first bus you take is the 8 direction mtro. You get off at the grocery store to run an errand. You return to the bus stop to take a metro bound bus and resume your trip. If you get on a 28 or 88, it will be accepted as a transfer. If you get on another 8, it will eat another ticket, as our rules stipulate that you cannot hop on or off using the same ticket - you must take the most direct route possible. Now, if the driver did not set up the proper route on the Chrono console, some passengers may be negatively impacted... see where this is going?

* If Chrono is offline, nothing can be done. We lose seeing the actual time, whether we are ahead or behind schedule, and I suppose the vehicle will not be able to track. Fortunately, this is a rare occurence but it used to happen more often in the past.

 

On 1/18/2023 at 5:42 PM, RTL_45 said:

That explains why they are able to get away with "75 McGill" on the large departure boards at Terminus Longueuil. In this case it does cross a McGill street, but it's a very insignificant part of the route. At first when I saw that I wondered if it actually went to McGill Metro!

Interestingly your rollsign link indicates that the STRSM was renamed STL then renamed again shortly after due to confusion with the STLaval. So it is not a new problem.

McGill is not the greatest destination to use when they could very precisely indicate which intersection is the true end of the line. In this case Chatham/Maréchal would be accurate.

McGill was on the 9-005 rollsign (not pictured on the rollsign gallery website) as McGill, Youville - which referenced the routes that served Bonaventure and Old Montreal via the Victoria Bridge. The route that currently does this (and will continue to do this even once the REM opens) is the 55, but the predecessor routes are 5 and 12.

éclair14 has already referenced that RTL is merely a marketing name. Strictly speaking, the RTL is the Société de transport de Longueuil.

15 hours ago, Mark Walton said:

Plus inheriting 7 routes from STCUM at the start of 1986; those routes were slightly modified and renamed.

Mark is right to reference the routes inherited from Montreal. None exist in their original form. We can discuss this more later.

 

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14 hours ago, SMS said:

Today I got to drive 20903 on the 13 (I am exceptionally on spare board this week) with the new reader. This is how it works. All drivers are required to log in to the Chrono system* using their badge number (matricule) and their run number (numéro de voiture), the latter which is never displayed on buses. For the destination sign there is an auto and a manual mode. Unfortunately it isn't a perfect system quite yet. If I leave it in auto leaving the garage, it will display code 2000 for En Transit, for the deadhead from gash to parc. Fine, no problem. It becomes a problem when the time comes to get to the platform and the bus is still signed up as ET. OK, one hiccup, no big deal. I manually punch in the route 13 on the Chrono screen. Later on route, I try switching it to auto. When I get to Terminus Longueuil (between 2 trips of 13), the bus signs back out to ET. At this point, this becomes not only inefficient but frustrating. The way I like to look at our desto signs, just set it and forget it. Given the inconvenience, I just keep the sign on manual mode as I like to be in control and clearly the computer just doesn't get it.

@SMSThank you for your sharing. Very informative indeed!

I guess for the destination sign you switch the auto mode and manual mode by touching a certain button on the Chrono screen, right?

For the problem of showing En Transit between two trips, I realized today that it could be even more problematic than what you described.

For the 417, the bus starts the trip from Terminus Longueuil towards secteur M of Vieux Longueuil, stays at the stop Boulevard Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux until the scheduled time of departure if the bus arrives that stop too early, and then continues the trip back to Terminus Longueuil. So the whole trip is divided into two trips, one is from Terminus Longueuil to Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux, another one is from Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux to Terminus Longueuil.

The problem is, when the bus arrives the stop Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux earlier than the scheduled time of departure, the destination sign will change to En Transit automatically while the bus is waiting at that stop. So, people would not know that the bus which is staying at the bus stop is operating the 417. They may wonder why a bus which is EN Transit would stay at that particular bus stop. Right at the scheduled time of departure, the destination sign changes back to 417.

I guess this problem could be fixed easily by those IT guys.

 

By the way, if the 417 arrives the bus stop Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux too early, quite many of the operators leave the bus stop earlier than the scheduled time of departure. Does there exist a rule stating that the operator must wait until the scheduled time of departure?

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On 1/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, SMS said:

Mark is right to reference the routes inherited from Montreal. None exist in their original form. We can discuss this more later.

 

I decided to dig up some scans from my personal archive. Attached are screenshots of the CTCUM 1971 system map featuring the Longueuil routes. I was too lazy to type out the itinerary for each route. Feel free to compare with the actual RTL routes in the sector that have replaced them. Also, on the reverse of the map is the list of route names. The RTL currently has no route 70 (replaced by 170) or 72 (replaced by 77/177). I emphasize currently because the STRSM briefly ran these routes after 1986 before abolishing them in their own right (I don't know when precisely). The actual RTL 76 (Roland-Therrien local weekday bus) has practically nothing to do with CTCUM 76 Lemoyne. I wish they would have given it another number but I digress. I've also uploaded some STRSM bus schedules from 1988 and 1989. As you can see, no route name is attached to 72 or 75 after the STCUM gave these routes up to the STRSM. So as you can see, the emphasis on route number over names on the South Shore go back for decades.

Having said that, certain old habits die hard. The RTL 71 towards the end of the line still faithfully makes the turn from Lafayette to Ste-Foy (now Coteau Rouge) to LaSalle to get to Curé-Poirier just like when Montreal used to do the route. I asked why it wouldn't emulate the 16 (via Front) or just go down on Lafayette to Manseau to get to Curé-Poirier. It seems the passengers are used to it the way it is, and therefore there is no need to change what works.

 

1971 CTCUM Longueuil.jpg

1971 CTCUM partial route list.jpg

Longueuil_Ligne_72_STRSM_22_aout_1988[1].JPG

Longueuil_Ligne_72_STRSM_22_aout_1988_verso[1].JPG

Longueuil_Ligne_75_STRSM_1_mars_1989[1].JPG

Longueuil_Ligne_75_STRSM_1_mars_1989_verso[1].JPG

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On 1/21/2023 at 12:24 AM, Mueller said:

The problem is, when the bus arrives the stop Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux earlier than the scheduled time of departure, the destination sign will change to En Transit automatically while the bus is waiting at that stop. So, people would not know that the bus which is staying at the bus stop is operating the 417. They may wonder why a bus which is EN Transit would stay at that particular bus stop. Right at the scheduled time of departure, the destination sign changes back to 417.

I haven't driven these routes in a very long time so I cannot really comment. I do agree that this is a design flaw that needs to be corrected. I don't want to be dependent on time for my sign to change, which is why I would favour manual mode.

On 1/21/2023 at 12:24 AM, Mueller said:

By the way, if the 417 arrives the bus stop Roland-Therrien/Des Ormeaux too early, quite many of the operators leave the bus stop earlier than the scheduled time of departure. Does there exist a rule stating that the operator must wait until the scheduled time of departure?

In the morning rush, some trips of 76/410/417 leaving Garage Longueuil will deadhead to Roland-Therrien/des Ormeaux and this is made evident in the schedule: https://www.rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/CMS/Media/7773_189_fr-CA_0_horaire_76_410_417_20220822.pdf

Buses are obliged to complete the end of route loop either when starting the route in AM rush or when finishing the route in PM rush (Fin de parcours run). The Roland-Therrien routes are some of many routes where this practice is in effect.

We were told in training that we are considered to be on time -1 (1 min early) + 3 (3 min late). I am not making this up, please refer to:

https://rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/en-CA/customer-service/f-a-q/

https://rtl-longueuil.qc.ca/en-CA/rtl/standards-and-regulations/?NavID=70&CultureCode=fr-CA

Strictly speaking, departures are to be done on time, but there is such little discipline nowadays (IMHO) that operators will jump the end of the route a little early to make up time further down the line. Running times in general have become unrealistic, we have been dealing with shorter layovers with the 2014 "optimization measures" (liberal austerity), and there are many obstacles in our way (school zones, lower speed limits, pedestrian activated crosswalks, radar traps, zero signal priority) that seem to work against us. Passengers are recommended to be at their bus stops 5 mins before departure. With the high level of service on Roland-Therrien, the next bus is never too far away, so I would not blame the driver for running a little hot if his gains are negated a few blocks down the road. I would not do this on a route where service is next hourly - and I am also the next bus on the line.

There is also the question of space available for layover at this intersection. Perhaps the operator wants to liberate space for other drivers and does not want to miss a green light opportunity.

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