General Subway/RT Discussion

[Byfold]

15 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

...nobody?

Reverse key. 

[Wayside Observer]

11 hours ago, Byfold said:

Reverse key. 

We have a winner!  Do you want to go for the extra points by identifying which equipment it was for?

[Byfold]

2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

We have a winner!  Do you want to go for the extra points by identifying which equipment it was for?

G Car I would assume.  The ones for hawkers were much smaller as I have a couple of them. 

[Wayside Observer]

37 minutes ago, Byfold said:

G Car I would assume.  The ones for hawkers were much smaller as I have a couple of them. 

Correct once again!  It’s a reverser key for the British Thompson-Houston master controller on the G cars.

Oddly, I’ve seen these and seen the H car ones, but I never actually saw one for the GE controllers on the Montreallers out of the control stand.  I don’t know if it was the same or different given how BTH was the actual General Electric entity in England (not to be confused with the General Electric Company that used the stylized GEC marking which was a completely different and unrelated company but registered that name there first).

[Cityflyer]

Seems they have added back the 5th station in the Line 1 extension to RHC.

Keith Irish on Twitter: "I'm plsed to share news the provincial govt has added a Royal Orchard station to its Yonge North Subway Extension project. This is good news for #Thornhill. However, this area will likely be designated a “Transit Oriented Community” and we must brace for the impact that'll have. https://t.co/PLzHk9iGGK" / Twitter

[MK78]

Any idea why the TTC would be doing "mainline storage" of trains on LIne 2 during overnight where there isn't any snow in the forecast? Is it because of temperatures that will be into the -20s, are they worried of some Greenwood yard switch issues for the morning rollout?

[smallspy]

11 hours ago, MK78 said:

Is it because of temperatures that will be into the -20s, are they worried of some Greenwood yard switch issues for the morning rollout?

Yes.

 

Dan

[Toro]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:24 PM, MK78 said:

Any idea why the TTC would be doing "mainline storage" of trains on LIne 2 during overnight where there isn't any snow in the forecast? Is it because of temperatures that will be into the -20s, are they worried of some Greenwood yard switch issues for the morning rollout?

Is this in the storage tracks or in the subway stns?

[MK78]

12 hours ago, Toro said:

Is this in the storage tracks or in the subway stns?

Its in the underground sections, in stations. They leave trains parked in the stations at end of service instead of running into the yard, then operators pick the trains up from the stations next morning instead of in the yard. I was aware of them doing it during snow events obviously, but never heard it happening due to simply extreme -20C or below temps. Not sure what the threshold the TTC has for that.

[MK78]

Listening on the TTC radio, and I've just heard dispatch advise operators on Line 2 to reduce speeds to 30km/h in the open cuts, and 40km/h on the Scarborough RT due "High Wind Protocol".

I have a hard time figuring out why. It's not like the winds are gonna tip the train over. What are they worried about?

[T3G]

20 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Listening on the TTC radio, and I've just heard dispatch advise operators on Line 2 to reduce speeds to 30km/h in the open cuts, and 40km/h on the Scarborough RT due "High Wind Protocol".

I have a hard time figuring out why. It's not like the winds are gonna tip the train over. What are they worried about?

Flying debris, maybe?

[MK78]

2 hours ago, T3G said:

Flying debris, maybe?

I dunno but i just came back on the BD in the Vicpark/Warden open cut and the train was going 60km/h according to GPS speed on the phone...

[GTAmissions1]

4 hours ago, MK78 said:

Listening on the TTC radio, and I've just heard dispatch advise operators on Line 2 to reduce speeds to 30km/h in the open cuts, and 40km/h on the Scarborough RT due "High Wind Protocol".

I have a hard time figuring out why. It's not like the winds are gonna tip the train over. What are they worried about?

In case of flying debris or something falls on the tracks in the open sections. 

[raptorjays]

Do you think there’s a chance that the service level on line 2 won’t be back to normal until at least fall?

I thought the subway service will be the first one to go back to normal and I was kinda expecting the service level won’t increase in January.. However, I didn’t expect it will still be kept reduced for March changes. 

and I am not sure it will come back to normal anytime soon because Line 2 always had a reduced service during the summer. 

I do commute from the west end, and the train is basically getting filled after passing Dundas West or Lansdowne.. The way back is way worse as it turns into Tokyo at St. George. 
I suspect eastern portion (East of Bloor/Yonge) will be even worse since I do see some people had to skip a train or two to get on. 
 

4-5 minute headway during the Am/Pm rush is getting ridiculous day by day as more people are heading back to the office. 

[Mike]

Will completion of ATC and signalling upgrades on Yonge line fix the issues with northbound trains getting into a traffic jam as they approach Finch station ( with the backup sometime later starting between York Mills and Sheppard)?

[Wayside Observer]

5 hours ago, Mike said:

Will completion of ATC and signalling upgrades on Yonge line fix the issues with northbound trains getting into a traffic jam as they approach Finch station ( with the backup sometime later starting between York Mills and Sheppard)?

Not really.  Trains can't move over the crossover and the switches can't throw faster than they do now plus it won't do anything to change loading and unloading passengers from trains or how fast one crew can get out and another get on.  If anything, given the list of stuff that it can't change, the ATC and moving block signalling could actually make the traffic jam worse because it'll be able to pack more trains in tighter below Finch station than the existing fixed block signalling can.

[smallspy]

12 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Not really.  Trains can't move over the crossover and the switches can't throw faster than they do now plus it won't do anything to change loading and unloading passengers from trains or how fast one crew can get out and another get on.  If anything, given the list of stuff that it can't change, the ATC and moving block signalling could actually make the traffic jam worse because it'll be able to pack more trains in tighter below Finch station than the existing fixed block signalling can.

Sooooo......

 

While the switches can't physically throw any faster - or the trains travel any faster over them - one of the advantages of the new signal system is a reduction in the amount of time that the interlocking can be deemed "safe" after a train travels over it, as well as a reduction in the lockout time that the signal system enforces that prevents the switches from being thrown.

 

That said, yes, it may actually cause more of a log jam entering the station because of the reasons you noted. It does seem like the delays heading into VMC are not nearly as bad as they were heading into Downsview when it was a terminal though, so there does seem to be some improvement in throughput.

 

Dan

[Mike]

What about the following scenario (if all pieces were built):

A northbound train arrives at Finch unloads, proceeds north into a tail track, crosses to southbound direction and then loads at the south bound platform.

Would this solve or at least alleviate the problem?  If it does, perhaps the TTC should build this while they are building the subway extension so that at least for the duration of construction passenger’s commutes are improved.

 

[smallspy]

22 hours ago, Mike said:

What about the following scenario (if all pieces were built):

A northbound train arrives at Finch unloads, proceeds north into a tail track, crosses to southbound direction and then loads at the south bound platform.

Would this solve or at least alleviate the problem?  If it does, perhaps the TTC should build this while they are building the subway extension so that at least for the duration of construction passenger’s commutes are improved.

In the tail track's current configuration - no. The tail tracks beyond Finch are simply too short, and the trains would have to operate too slowly entering them.

 

But one of the ideas that the TTC had many years ago to shorten headways on the YUS was to lengthen the tailtracks beyond Finch almost to Cummer. This would allow for two things - one is lengthing the existing pocket track to allow trains to enter at higher speed. The other was to build a second pocket track beyond the first - this way trains would alternate between the pockets, and increase the flow of trains turning back - and thus decreasing headways.

 

Dan

[Xtrazsteve]

If the operator needs to relief themselves and they are held up in a queue, eventually they'll still need to hold up the line.

Unless they build a second platform with a shuffling crew bring trains to the other side while the operators take their mini break if necessary.

So they should have something like this ( X is crossover )

================================================================= TAIL TRACK 1
            X             [ FINCH PLATFORM ]            X           [ STAFF PLATFORM ]      X  ============= TAIL TRACK 2
================================================================= TAIL TRACK 3

So there is 5 additional train storage. Seems a bit overkill but I think TTC really needs it to make things work.

[Mike]

Perhaps this could be done when they begin work on the North Yonge extension.  Something has to be done for sure - it is not normal when the trip southbound from Finch to Queen takes 28 min (am rush), while the trip north in pm rush is at least 35 minutes and sometimes closer to 45 min. This is prepandemic, haven’t been on the subway since Mar 2020, but suspect it didn’t improve.

[81-717]

Is there any MDBF data for each type of subway car at various stages in their lifespan? I remember seeing a report from a couple years ago that the TR figure was around 500,000 km vs around 370,000 km for the T1. Considering that the T1s are in their twilight years, it's not that surprising that their current MDBF is lower than the TR, but from what I understand the T1s have been more reliable overall since they never had as many issues as the TRs when they were new. The H4s also never had any major problems, so were the H4s overall more reliable than the TRs (at least during their first 10 years of service)? Would be especially interesting to know the H6 MDBF data given their poor reliability record.

[smallspy]

For a while there, the TTC was publishing monthly MTBF data in the CEO's reports.

 

Other than that, historically, no, there's never been any data released - at least not that I have been able to dig up.

 

Dan

[Shemar]

5681-5686 has that weird door chime.

 

 

[Shaun]

Is there a slow order at Eglinton causing trains to be backed up to York Mills? (southbound).

Took me an hour to get from finch to Union yesterday around 10am