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General Subway/RT Discussion

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On 5/18/2019 at 10:49 PM, meltingtomato said:

It would be a bit odd, no? Especially as it's halfway through the board period.

I know this is a month late, but I thought so at first as well. On Google Maps, it still shows all the buses at Royal York as stopping outside the station.

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5 hours ago, blue.bird.fan said:

I know this is a month late, but I thought so at first as well. On Google Maps, it still shows all the buses at Royal York as stopping outside the station.

Yes, change will come with the August board.

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Hello. With your permission, I will ask you some questions

1. Who manufactured work cars ##RT-86, RT-88, RT-89?
2. What is the purpose and propulsion of work cars ##RT-86, RT-88, 
RT-89, RT-90, RT-91?

About these cars CPTDB Wiki and Transit Toronto don't know anything. Maybe some information you will know? Thanks.

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2 hours ago, andreymrklv said:

Hello. With your permission, I will ask you some questions

1. Who manufactured work cars ##RT-86, RT-88, RT-89?
2. What is the purpose and propulsion of work cars ##RT-86, RT-88, 
RT-89, RT-90, RT-91?

About these cars CPTDB Wiki and Transit Toronto don't know anything. Maybe some information you will know? Thanks.

Info on RT-89 and its manufacturer can be found here: https://arvaindustries.com/products/track-vacuum-car/

 

RT-88 (and RT-87) is a single-ended, diesel and electrically powered work cars with a (I think) 15,000lb capacity crane mounted on the B-end. Both were built by Arva.

 

I have not seen any info for -86, -90 and -91.


Edit: doing a bit more research....


RT-86 is another, older diesel and electrically powered single-cabbed flat car. It is configured for ATC installation duties, and was built by Arva.

 

RT-90 and -91 are former T1 subway cars that have been configured as track analysis cars.


Dan

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Thank you! I wonder if something was retired among work cars in recent years? The information on the sites that I mentioned in my previous post has not been updated for several years.

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12 hours ago, andreymrklv said:

Thank you! I wonder if something was retired among work cars in recent years? The information on the sites that I mentioned in my previous post has not been updated for several years.

Lots of cars have been retired, but it's much harder to find that information out than what's come in. Those 5 cars that you have asked specifically about, however, all appear to be net additions to the fleet.

 

Dan

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54 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I hadn't realised they were retiring T1 cars into work cars already. Is it just the two?

Yes, 5184 & 5185 (:2)

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I hadn't realised they were retiring T1 cars into work cars already. Is it just the two?

I believe the plan is 6 over the next couple of years 

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I hadn't realised they were retiring T1 cars into work cars already. Is it just the two?

 

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On the Scarbourough RT (aka Line 3):

  • Is there the same default cruising speed between stations far enough apart to allow that (e.g. both sides of Lawrence East), or is there a unique speed profile for every part of the line?
  • Notwithstanding any answer above ^_^ has the speed of the RT dropped over the years?

It's hard to accurately judge the speed of a rail vehicle from inside, but I think the RT had a greater impression of speed years ago than it does now.

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45 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

On the Scarbourough RT (aka Line 3):

  • Is there the same default cruising speed between stations far enough apart to allow that (e.g. both sides of Lawrence East), or is there a unique speed profile for every part of the line?
  • Notwithstanding any answer above ^_^ has the speed of the RT dropped over the years?

It's hard to accurately judge the speed of a rail vehicle from inside, but I think the RT had a greater impression of speed years ago than it does now.

Why don't you use a GPS app to test the speed from your phone?

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3 hours ago, Ed T. said:

On the Scarbourough RT (aka Line 3):

  • Is there the same default cruising speed between stations far enough apart to allow that (e.g. both sides of Lawrence East), or is there a unique speed profile for every part of the line?
  • Notwithstanding any answer above ^_^ has the speed of the RT dropped over the years?

It's hard to accurately judge the speed of a rail vehicle from inside, but I think the RT had a greater impression of speed years ago than it does now.

Its max speed as of now is 60km/h. It used to do 80km/h between some stops quite a few years back

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On 6/26/2019 at 8:14 PM, TechnicaProductions said:

Its max speed as of now is 60km/h. It used to do 80km/h between some stops quite a few years back

Yup, I remember this long time ago, when you used to peek thru the cab and see the digital speedometer.

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On 6/22/2019 at 10:08 AM, andreymrklv said:

@smallspyTell me, please, does RT-3 overhead maintenance car work now? Or is it already written off? 

P.S. This car was manufactured by Toronto Transportation Commission in 1922.

I suspect that RT-3 has been gone for quite some time.

 

I have a document from 2009 showing a listing of cars to be removed from the property, and it isn't listed on there which makes me think that it was gone by then.

 

On 6/26/2019 at 8:14 PM, TechnicaProductions said:

Its max speed as of now is 60km/h. It used to do 80km/h between some stops quite a few years back

The TTC has gradually slowed down the top and operating speeds of the SRT in order to try and preserve the condition of the equipment for as long as it possibly can. (There were also additional speed restrictions between Lawrence East and Kennedy stations in order to try and reduce noise through the residential neighbourhoods, but the top speed has been brought down in line with those sections now.) Despite the rebuilding of the equipment, with no foreseeable prospect of an end date on the horizon for the service, I suspect that the lowered operating speeds will continue to be in effect until the service is finally put out of its misery.


Dan

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1 hour ago, Cityflyer said:

And to think the Provincial government wants to build the Ontario Line using this technology again. lol

The the Technology is proven, just not outdoors in snowy conditions. Look at Vancouver, they have had lots of success 

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On June 26, 2019 at 8:14 PM, TechnicaProductions said:

Its max speed as of now is 60km/h. It used to do 80km/h between some stops quite a few years back

6 hours ago, MK78 said:

Yup, I remember this long time ago, when you used to peek thru the cab and see the digital speedometer.

And even longer ago than a long time ago, back in the prehistoric days, it was an analogue speedometer with two dial pointers.  The outside one would swing to point at the maximum authorized speed given by the SELTRAC system and the inner pointer showed train speed.

One of the other things the TTC did a few years ago now was run a series of experiments with the acceleration and braking rates and they tested a good number of high/high low/high low/low type combinations before settling on lowering the rates as well as the top speed to try and make it as easy on the equipment as possible.

The line actually opened before the SELTRAC was fully operational so it was being driven manually by line of sight and some of the operators would crank those little two car trains up on the northbound run after getting down the ramp exiting Kennedy station and again out of Lawrence East and go screaming up the northbound track.  I don't think the Scarborough RT ever moved as fast as that since the signalling/ATO system went live.

1 hour ago, Cityflyer said:

And to think the Provincial government wants to build the Ontario Line using this technology again. lol

No kidding.  I'm saying this having absolutely no proof but it was long rumoured that Bombardier was aggressively but quietly pushing a proposal for a contract for the Eglinton LRT that would have seen it be an ICTS line.  The ship's sailed on that but the Downtown Relief Line / Ontario Line's still up for grabs so I wouldn't be surprised if they're pushing the same thing again for that one.

7 minutes ago, Shaun said:

The the Technology is proven, just not outdoors in snowy conditions. Look at Vancouver, they have had lots of success 

Well, it is proven in outdoor snowy conditions, and it's now known that those are a severe system limitation.  Even if the new line is mostly underground, anything that's exposed to the elements like bridges over the Don River, any open cut extensions at the outer ends, the yards, those'll be a problem.  Also, there's the issue of loading gauge.  ICTS cars, even the new versions, are small.  A six car train of 75' subway cars that are just over 10 feet wide will gobble up and carry far more people than an ICTS train, even if you strung together enough cars to make it the same length as a regular subway train.  I honestly think a full size subway train with ATO like what's on the Yonge line with the ATO being rolled out is the way to go for the next line.  Not a rehash of ICTS.

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The only other medium capacity system I can think of for the Ontario Line is Ottawa's confederation line with their super long Alstom trains. If you were to build the Ontario Line in its own right of way without ever intersecting traffic at grade, that system can be comparable to ICTS lines running Mark IIIs. However, both are still LRT width so they are no wider than the Flexities.

Do you guys think the confederation line technology will be better or worse than a brand new ICTS technology for the Ontario Line?

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1 hour ago, Cityflyer said:

Do you guys think the confederation line technology will be better or worse than a brand new ICTS technology for the Ontario Line?

Frankly speaking, the Confederation Line is basically like the underground section of the Eglinton line, only longer and with higher capacity since it is the backbone of their transit network, comparable to our Yonge and Bloor lines.

And, just in case you weren't aware, the ITCS technology is now known as Bombardier Innovia Metro, and the Mark III trains are even going to Saudi Arabia - albeit using conventional electric motors instead of LIM.

Maybe we could look to Japan for inspiration; I know they got a couple of LIM lines operating in Osaka, Tokyo, Fukuoka, Kobe, Yokohama, and Sendai. They all have similar objectives: smaller trains, smaller tunnels.

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Thanks for the information about the RT's operating speeds.

Does the LIM have any particular advantages over conventional traction motors? I'd guess that, since gearing isn't a concept here, that acceleration has an upper bound, but top speed won't be limited by the motor spinning too fast.

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