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General Subway/RT Discussion


FlyerD901

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38 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

It may have been out for overhaul work at one of Bombardier's plants in New York state.

Meaning it had better self isolate for the next 14 days.

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Curiosity got the bettter of me. Does anyone know what a "Blind Trip" is?

On the TTC Subway radio they will sometimes say, "Tail track 1 at Kennedy is occupied, watch your lights and blind trips".

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2 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Curiosity got the bettter of me. Does anyone know what a "Blind Trip" is?

On the TTC Subway radio they will sometimes say, "Tail track 1 at Kennedy is occupied, watch your lights and blind trips".

Basically a trip arm at terminus stations that activate when a train is in the tail tracks. They don't have signals attached to them and are speed based. They ensure trains don't enter a terminus station too quickly and risk overrunning the platform and colliding into a train in the tail tracks.  

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5 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

Basically a trip arm at terminus stations that activate when a train is in the tail tracks. They don't have signals attached to them and are speed based. They ensure trains don't enter a terminus station too quickly and risk overrunning the platform and colliding into a train in the tail tracks.  

They should have had those installed in Chicago, which would have prevented the O'Hare derailment.

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2 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

RFI for new subway cars

T1 replacement. Looks like they're getting the ball rolling

I think they will probably order more Toronto Rocket trains to replace the T1s on Line 2. To ensure a consistent fleet between all three subway lines. In case if one is short, they can swap between if required. Or most likely push the trains on Line 1 to Line 2 if going with a different supplier. Depending on what is brought in those proposals. 

Subway technology has changed over the last 10 years. Drawing from New York and the R211 which their design included Wi-Fi plus USB charging currently in the design and testing phase. Though the R179 trains made by Bombardier have had reliability and manufacturing defects. Toronto Rocket trains also had issues too during the first few months, but it is new technology and hard to iron out the bugs until the final users actually use the new system. 

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Does anyone know what 506 is in the TTC’s long list of codes? Ie: 99 for line controllers, 12 for the Fire Department and 128 for Rick Leary?
 

just asking because I heard it at Bloor-Yonge and Queen’s Park yesterday for a 506 needed at Kennedy 

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506 are Janitors. You used to hear it all the time over the station & subway PA, "506 kennedy, call control" etc, before the janitors were issued new Tetra radios, they would have to call from the station phones. Now Janitors have their own (very chatty) channel on the Tetra system, talkgroup 101117 if anyone monitors the system.

99 (usually shortened over the radio from 199 or 299) are line mechanics for the various lines, 199 being line mechanics on YUS, 299 is line mechanics on BD. I'm not sure if sheppard has its own or if they share someone from the YUS based out of sheppard, RT has their own line mechanic as well, but they rarely ever call it out 399, usually just 99 especially that the RT is still on the old legacy radio channel, has not migrated to Tetra and who knows if it ever will.

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10 hours ago, nfitz said:

Have they done an RFI for subway cars before? I guess there is no rush, to do an RFQ or an RFP.

I wish they'd issue the RFP, or simply contract the extra streetcars though.

I don't recall an RFI - I may have just missed it - but they did some sort of open bidding process for the subway order that resulted in the TRs.

 

On 8/8/2020 at 11:16 AM, GTAmissions1 said:

Subway technology has changed over the last 10 years. Drawing from New York and the R211 which their design included Wi-Fi plus USB charging currently in the design and testing phase. Though the R179 trains made by Bombardier have had reliability and manufacturing defects. Toronto Rocket trains also had issues too during the first few months, but it is new technology and hard to iron out the bugs until the final users actually use the new system. 

Subway technology has absolutely not changed in the almost 15 years since the TRs were ordered. The same invertor, motor and control systems that were state-of-the-art then are still applicable now. They are slightly smaller and more efficient perhaps, but that's technological evolution, not revolution.Gangway-linked trains may not have been the norm then, but the TTC certainly wasn't breaking new ground with them, either.

 

Things like USB plugs and Wi-Fi and LED lighting are not inherent to subway design, and there's no reason why they couldn't be fitted after the fact. (In fact, I'm still surprised that they didn't spec LED interior lighting to the TRs from the outset, but that's neither here nor there.)

 

Dan

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2 hours ago, smallspy said:

I don't recall an RFI - I may have just missed it - but they did some sort of open bidding process for the subway order that resulted in the TRs.

 

Subway technology has absolutely not changed in the almost 15 years since the TRs were ordered. The same invertor, motor and control systems that were state-of-the-art then are still applicable now. They are slightly smaller and more efficient perhaps, but that's technological evolution, not revolution.Gangway-linked trains may not have been the norm then, but the TTC certainly wasn't breaking new ground with them, either.

 

Things like USB plugs and Wi-Fi and LED lighting are not inherent to subway design, and there's no reason why they couldn't be fitted after the fact. (In fact, I'm still surprised that they didn't spec LED interior lighting to the TRs from the outset, but that's neither here nor there.)

 

Dan

What I'm interested in seeing and it's a bit too early, this is probably going to have to wait for the TTC to release an official spec sheet, is if this order of subway trains is going to be for another round of 6 car TR type trains or if they're going to go for the idea that's been tossed around for a 7 car train with an additional, shorter car in the consist to fill out the full 500 foot platform length to get more carrying capacity.  Granted, that poses it's own set of secondary issues in the way that Bob Hughes used to say "Every solution has a problem", but it's an idea that some people have thrown out there and I am curious if it is under consideration by the TTC.

Wi-fi?  USB chargers?  Even more LED junk?  Don't care.  Not important.

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5 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

What I'm interested in seeing and it's a bit too early, this is probably going to have to wait for the TTC to release an official spec sheet, is if this order of subway trains is going to be for another round of 6 car TR type trains or if they're going to go for the idea that's been tossed around for a 7 car train with an additional, shorter car in the consist to fill out the full 500 foot platform length to get more carrying capacity. 

I'm not sure why the 7th car would be shorter. Instead of six 23-metre cars and a 14-metre car, why not make seven 21.8-metre cars - each with 4 doors.

Or eight 19-metre cars, each with 3 to 4 doors.

Or whatever the vendor proposes?

Minimizing the number of cars saved money and maximized riders when there a cab on each car - but now with only two cabs per train, I don't see the need to maximize each car length. Montreal uses the same length platform, and has nine 17-metre cars. 

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5 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'm not sure why the 7th car would be shorter. Instead of six 23-metre cars and a 14-metre car, why not make seven 21.8-metre cars - each with 4 doors.

Or eight 19-metre cars, each with 3 to 4 doors.

Or whatever the vendor proposes?

Minimizing the number of cars saved money and maximized riders when there a cab on each car - but now with only two cabs per train, I don't see the need to maximize each car length. Montreal uses the same length platform, and has nine 17-metre cars. 

More parts more wheels more of everything.

Having one short car should be cheaper. 

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7 hours ago, Shaun said:

More parts more wheels more of everything.

Having one short car should be cheaper. 

I can see a case why having eight or nine car trains is more expensive.

But how do they save money, making six cars per train one length, and the seventh a different length, compared to just having seven cars the same length .. or at least 5 cars, once you account for the cabs.

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8 hours ago, nfitz said:

I'm not sure why the 7th car would be shorter. Instead of six 23-metre cars and a 14-metre car, why not make seven 21.8-metre cars - each with 4 doors.

Or eight 19-metre cars, each with 3 to 4 doors.

Or whatever the vendor proposes?

Minimizing the number of cars saved money and maximized riders when there a cab on each car - but now with only two cabs per train, I don't see the need to maximize each car length. Montreal uses the same length platform, and has nine 17-metre cars. 

If they change the length of the car, they'll need to have a different setup at the maintenance bay for removing the trucks. That would definitely not work for a mix fleet of old and news. Since they are building a new yard, they could setup Kipling for new trains and Greenwood for old till all the T1s are gone. It would be interesting to see what they come up with for the Ontario Line.

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6 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

If they change the length of the car, they'll need to have a different setup at the maintenance bay for removing the trucks. That would definitely not work for a mix fleet of old and news. Since they are building a new yard, they could setup Kipling for new trains and Greenwood for old till all the T1s are gone. It would be interesting to see what they come up with for the Ontario Line.

Obico will be nothing more than a light running facility. It will not be used to perform heavy maintenance on the subway fleet.

 

Greenwood isn't going anywhere.

 

Dan

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16 hours ago, nfitz said:

Or eight 19-metre cars, each with 3 to 4 doors.

I like this idea.

Eight 57 foot cars in a train, three doors each side of each car, red body paint, yellow stripes, black roofs, windows that open, comfortable seats, incandescent lighting, a row of strap hangers down each side.  Yes, I could definitely go for this!

Shame.  Such a shame.

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18 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

The feedback survey will be posted next month along with focus group conversations that will be using the new Line 2 trains. The target is getting the new train set in by 2026 with the entire fleet running by 2030.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/New_Vehicles/New_Subway_Train/index.jsp

 

Is "try to avoid making the same mistakes that were made on the Toronto Rocket" valid feedback?

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