FlyerD901

Future TTC Bus Orders

195 posts in this topic

Just now, Xtrazsteve said:

Maybe next board meeting which is delayed till July 11.

No, at the next TTC Budget committee meeting, which is next week.  Oh hang on, it's cancelled - http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Committee_meetings/Budget/2016/index.jsp

Byfield clearly said at the last TTC board meeting that it would be presented to the budget committee on June 16th.  I wonder what's happened ... seems like a long delay until July 11.

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I heard through the grapevine there was a Flyer XD40 at Hillcrest last Friday. The bus didn't have stainless steel frame.

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 2:31 PM, FlyerD901 said:

I heard through the grapevine there was a Flyer XD40 at Hillcrest last Friday. The bus didn't have stainless steel frame.

Pretty sad, eh? Nova is again to chose for the future orders. Oh well....

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What exactly is wrong with NovaBus? It would make sense for the TTC to go with something familiar anyways, and I'll be honest, the Xcelsior just looks like a cheapened out Invero to me, and no one liked the Inveros...

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20 minutes ago, HB_1024 said:

What exactly is wrong with NovaBus? It would make sense for the TTC to go with something familiar anyways, and I'll be honest, the Xcelsior just looks like a cheapened out Invero to me, and no one liked the Inveros...

Some people dislike the rear facing seats at the back. The XD40's do have a better seating layout than the NovaBuses.

Meanwhile there are some NFI fans here that are bias and and some that would like to see more variety. 

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7 hours ago, Sutharsan said:

Pretty sad, eh? Nova is again to chose for the future orders. Oh well....

Well, the bus for another TA, so it just passing through. Its not like they spec'd it out for TTC just to deliver it to another TA

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10 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Some people dislike the rear facing seats at the back.

Perimeter seating is an option as well for the Novas at the back, but TTC decided against it.

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23 hours ago, HB_1024 said:

What exactly is wrong with NovaBus? It would make sense for the TTC to go with something familiar anyways, and I'll be honest, the Xcelsior just looks like a cheapened out Invero to me, and no one liked the Inveros...

Nothing is wrong with NovaBus. It is just that as long as New Flyer is non-compliant to TTC's requirements NovaBus is the only company that the TTC can order from, which does not give the TTC the ability to get better pricing since NovaBus has no competition for the contract.

18 hours ago, FlyerD901 said:

Well, the bus for another TA, so it just passing through. Its not like they spec'd it out for TTC just to deliver it to another TA

It was a demo bus.

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It may have had nothing to do with the bus itself. Maybe it was an option the flyer happened to have. 

(Clever devices for example.... Or maybe it was something to do with Allison-if so equipped. Hell, it could have been the tires for all we know. Just because it happened to be a flyer doesn't necessarily mean squat)

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9 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

It may have had nothing to do with the bus itself. Maybe it was an option the flyer happened to have. 

(Clever devices for example.... Or maybe it was something to do with Allison-if so equipped. Hell, it could have been the tires for all we know. Just because it happened to be a flyer doesn't necessarily mean squat)

Just a show bus. We get them a lot here too. They just show it off to see if theres interests.

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1 hour ago, TTC 9701 said:

Just a show bus. We get them a lot here too. They just show it off to see if theres interests.

Not exactly. And where's "here"?

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4 hours ago, TTC 9701 said:

Just a show bus. We get them a lot here too. They just show it off to see if theres interests.

I don't think you understand what he was talking about.

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On 6/30/2016 at 11:39 PM, wil9402 said:

Nothing is wrong with NovaBus. It is just that as long as New Flyer is non-compliant to TTC's requirements NovaBus is the only company that the TTC can order from, which does not give the TTC the ability to get better pricing since NovaBus has no competition for the contract.

And transit enthusiasts always want what they can't have. If TTC had ordered 300 buses from New Flyer, these same people would want Novas.

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Late to the party here, but drivers at least hate Nova LFSes for several reasons. The driver's seat is twice as far from the front wheels compared to every other bus, so every bump in the road is felt twice as hard. The compartment is forward of the doors so you have to crane your neck to check fares. Getting into and out of the seat is a pain because the farebox is about parallel with your mid-thigh, I personally smack my knee right in the ligament more often than not. And the steering wheel is way lower than other buses, so you can't really adjust the ergonomics that much, even the short drivers run with it fully telescoped. Oh, I've heard other drivers complain you can't lean the seat back as far as on other buses, but I sit upright so can't confirm that.

Points to them for better accessibility for people using mobility aids, and they turn tighter, but that's about the only good thing I can say about that front end design.

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All I got to say is good luck staring at the presto reader all day long when everyone is using it. Maybe hearing it beep is good enough.

For Quebec agencies, the only thing they get are Nova LFSes. They don't have anything to compare with.

The back door is still really slow and always slamming into those who stand beside them. Yet people still haven't figure it out yet. I mean it's already a year that Arrow had them and 2 years for the artics.

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The TTC really should consult with operators before getting new buses and get some operator input, this is another reason why there's a low morale at TTC. No one expects anything to be perfect, but I'm sure some driver input could reduce some of the problems and complaints. People should book off to make a statement, get JHSC involved and the union in some joint effort to address some of these concerns before another million Novas start coming in. 

They bulldozed the M/C handle on us in the TR, which is not good for your wrist, just poor ergonomics. The M/C handle on the T1s and Hawkers are so much better, the T1s being the best for me.

Apparently the new streetcars have the M/C handle on the left hand side the same left hand is also needed to operate the doors. I haven't been in the operators compartment, so I have yet to see that. But I've heard complaints about them as well.

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For TA's with multiple bus types in their fleet, most drivers complain about the bad design of the Nova Bus. Not only that but the complaints are similar across the board, and customers are complaining about various components inside the bus as well.

As i've said in the past, the bus is just badly designed from head to toe and I really don't know how Volvo has gotten away with selling the same bus design for 20+ years without a major redesign (asides from the engine adjustment).

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1 hour ago, lip said:

For TA's with multiple bus types in their fleet, most drivers complain about the bad design of the Nova Bus. Not only that but the complaints are similar across the board, and customers are complaining about various components inside the bus as well.

As i've said in the past, the bus is just badly designed from head to toe and I really don't know how Volvo has gotten away with selling the same bus design for 20+ years without a major redesign (asides from the engine adjustment).

Simply, they meet most of the design requirements and specs plus offering a lower price than NFI (the only competitor here). The also got all the TAs in Quebec to sell their buses.

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looks like TTC went from an REOI to a RFI. 

Request for Information - Future Bus Procurement of TTC Buses

"The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) is seeking a Request For Information (RFI) in order to identify and obtain information from bus manufacturers interested in participating with future bus purchases. The TTC currently operates and maintains a fleet of approximately 2,000 buses to support the movement of its customers across the Greater Toronto Area. A move to steady state procurement has been implemented and the TTC plans on purchasing approximately 110 buses annually"

The first post of this thread had the number of buses at 120 annually. So it looks as if TTC revised what they are looking for. This one closes on October 28th 2016, which is next week Friday

Document Request List 

This is just a Request For information (RFI)

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On 8/8/2016 at 4:18 PM, shivers said:

Late to the party here, but drivers at least hate Nova LFSes for several reasons. The driver's seat is twice as far from the front wheels compared to every other bus, so every bump in the road is felt twice as hard. The compartment is forward of the doors so you have to crane your neck to check fares. Getting into and out of the seat is a pain because the farebox is about parallel with your mid-thigh, I personally smack my knee right in the ligament more often than not. And the steering wheel is way lower than other buses, so you can't really adjust the ergonomics that much, even the short drivers run with it fully telescoped. Oh, I've heard other drivers complain you can't lean the seat back as far as on other buses, but I sit upright so can't confirm that.

Points to them for better accessibility for people using mobility aids, and they turn tighter, but that's about the only good thing I can say about that front end design.

also the location of the mirrors.  I can barely reach the mirrors.  In winter i have to wipe the close side mirrors.  thank goodness we don't have the Nova at Eglinton.

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31 minutes ago, YRTScam said:

The TTC needs to stop ordering new buses so that the TTC will save money. Ordering a bunch of new buses are a waste of money.

Wow, such a basic lack of knowledge in your first post. 

Not too sure how not buying new busses = saving money when you'll have to spend even more on keeping the old stuff running, and the argument about a different budget doesn't fly as there is only one taxpayer who's funding it all

Equipment wears out, it needs to be replaced, it one of those facts of life.

Rebuilds can only last so long, especially now that they are no longer built like a Jimmy. 

At a certain point the bus will no longer be road worthy/safe to operate, then what?

Buying used only helps for a while, look at Saskatoon/Regina...

Old equipment is also environmentally un-friendly, the new units are much, much better

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Why even bother responding to a tool like that?

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1 hour ago, Bus_Medic said:

Why even bother responding to a tool like that?

Well, figured we'd try a quasi-civilized response, maybe see if that would be of any value....

Yeah, yeah, I know, not grumpy enough :P

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