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Future TTC Bus Orders

FlyerD901

By FlyerD901
in Greater Toronto Area

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  • 7 months later...
FabianColeyLOVESBUSES

FabianColeyLOVESBUSES

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I have been told that the TTC  hybrid artic order is going to be the same as the artics we have now. TTC is going to get Nova hybrid artics. I have been told that 60 buses are supposed to be ordered with 30 units going to Mount Dennis. I have been told TTC might go ahead with the 60 hybrid artics. i am not sure when they be delivered. I also dont know if TTC will change their mind or not on ordering the hybrid artics.

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7749

7749

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4 hours ago, FabianColeyLOVESBUSES said:

I have been told that the TTC  hybrid artic order is going to be the same as the artics we have now. TTC is going to get Nova hybrid artics. I have been told that 60 buses are supposed to be ordered with 30 units going to Mount Dennis. I have been told TTC might go ahead with the 60 hybrid artics. i am not sure when they be delivered. I also dont know if TTC will change their mind or not on ordering the hybrid artics.

Interesting, I have heard the same as well (from a source I will not mention), about the hybrid artic order in 2022, with the same number of buses, 60. I don't think they've decided on which bus yet. There is also supposed to be a order of 80 electric buses for 2022 as well, that's all I'll say for now.

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Young

Young

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On 3/24/2021 at 5:12 PM, FabianColeyLOVESBUSES said:

I have been told that the TTC  hybrid artic order is going to be the same as the artics we have now. TTC is going to get Nova hybrid artics. I have been told that 60 buses are supposed to be ordered with 30 units going to Mount Dennis. I have been told TTC might go ahead with the 60 hybrid artics. i am not sure when they be delivered. I also dont know if TTC will change their mind or not on ordering the hybrid artics.

I wonder what they’re going to number the buses

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MRD10

MRD10

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36 minutes ago, Young said:

I wonder what they’re going to number the buses

There's a few possibilities. 

The hybrids and electrics have been following the 3xxx series. So the first order will be numbered 38xx.
But they could choose to number the artic's closer to the current fleet, so in that case it would be 93xx.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Xtrazsteve

Xtrazsteve

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The report has indicated that NFI are the best of the three. Probably cause they and NovaBUS have been the more experienced builders. It also mention that Nova is coming with a new battery powered bus. So those LFSe+ is also a good contender plus TTC likes the Novas better. They also want up to 2 contractors, so maybe NFI and Nova?

Only NFI and Nova have stainless steel frame.
NFI is the only satisfactory model between the current 3.
NFI has the less energy consumption variations between winter and summer. BYDs are the worst in winter but best in summer, variation is huge.
NFI has the best MDBF, Proterra is the worst. The BYD fleet is still too early to tell (since they arrived late) but is trending much better than Proterra.
Proterra is 42.5 ft long, which doesn't fit well in 4 of the 8 garages. So that's a big no-no.
BYD needs a special charger plug.
BYD has the most flaws on arrival.
BYD and Proterra staffs can't come to Canada to look at the issues cause of COVID-19 restrictions. 
 

Based on that, I say Proterra is out. BYDs are terrible to scheduling while NFIs can keep the same schedule all year long.

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Xtrazsteve

Xtrazsteve

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9 minutes ago, FabianColeyLOVESBUSES said:

I have a feeling that TTC could get some Nova electric buses. TTC has  a good relationship  with Nova bus for the past few years. Plus TTC is inviting Nova bus for the electric program.  It be interesting having the full electric Nova buses in TTC.

The Nova LFSe+ would have similar components to the HEV, something TTC is familiar with.

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lip

lip

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8 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The Nova LFSe+ would have similar components to the HEV, something TTC is familiar with.

Honestly hope the TTC doesnt even consider the LFSe+.

Does anyone know if they would suffer from the same internal heat/air flow issues as the diesel, and to a lesser extent hybrid LFS buses? I've never been on buses that literally feel like an internal sauna until Novas started to arrive. The other day I was on an LFS Artic and literally the entire rear half of the bus was so hot one couldnt sit there for greater than 5 mins before having to move up to the front half. I wont even get started on the entire rear seat row which regularly feels like a sauna on a regular basis.

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MK78

MK78

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6 hours ago, lip said:

Honestly hope the TTC doesnt even consider the LFSe+.

Does anyone know if they would suffer from the same internal heat/air flow issues as the diesel, and to a lesser extent hybrid LFS buses? I've never been on buses that literally feel like an internal sauna until Novas started to arrive. The other day I was on an LFS Artic and literally the entire rear half of the bus was so hot one couldnt sit there for greater than 5 mins before having to move up to the front half. I wont even get started on the entire rear seat row which regularly feels like a sauna on a regular basis.

That is also my biggest peeve with the Nova LFS. The vents don't extend all the way to the back, at least on the 40ft models, plus the heat from the engine doesnt help either. Also the window doesn't open for the last two rows of seats.

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T3G

T3G

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IIRC Nova neck refers to having to turn 90 degrees to face passengers coming in. The new windows were because of visibility issues with the pillar in front of the window on the old Novas.

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ZümmyZüm

ZümmyZüm

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Correct, it’s not the left side that’s a factor for drivers, infact you hardly need to do a “blind spot” check in a nova with the way mirrors are positioned on the left, the nova neck factor also isn’t as prevalent anymore since most fare payment is presto based and you don’t tend to turn your head as much to the right to look at fare media 

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lip

lip

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4 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Correct, it’s not the left side that’s a factor for drivers, infact you hardly need to do a “blind spot” check in a nova with the way mirrors are positioned on the left, the nova neck factor also isn’t as prevalent anymore since most fare payment is presto based and you don’t tend to turn your head as much to the right to look at fare media 

Doesnt mean the problem isnt gone, the drivers still have to look at the passengers who are boarding the vehicle. But you make a point, some dont even bother turning their neck and i've noticed it quite a bit.

I dont know how Nova has gotten away with the design flaws in their products for such a long time. Well actually I do, it's because of Volvo's backing. Meanwhile, other manufacturers (New Flyer, Proterra to name a couple) have all changed their bus design in various ways over the years. The only notable change Nova has made was to finally rearrange the rear engine compartment, and change the driver side windows. And just look how many years it took them to clue into changing those 2 things. Whatever "modifications" they've made to "new and improved" airflow throughout the LFS clearly dont work.

Nova's complacency will eventually catch up. To have the same product for 25+ years without change is pretty ridiculous, and we've in an age where new players are revving up to compete and take market share. At the moment it's fleet commonality and market maturation that's holding them back, but once that's out the window i'd love to see Nova not have a blank cheque chance at winning bids.

Until we get to that day, Nova needs to fix the damn airflow/overheating issues in their buses. Im not interested in baking myself on an almost daily basis.

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ZümmyZüm

ZümmyZüm

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I get the frustrations but as a driver of novas myself, I’ll say they will never go away like Daimler/ Orion. Nova neck is still a thing but I barely feel it anymore compared to the days of paper bus passes 

 

as for design flaws, I’m not sure what you’re getting at, from a drivers standpoint they’re very ergonomic, they maximize capacity loads compared to other models and they’re a solid build with a design that’s easy to maintain. The T mounted engines worked for a long long time and well, when they switched to the conventional engine placement they put a lot of work into maximizing the space inside the bus ( I can’t account for mechanical, I know nothing in that department ). The only “flaw” I’d give nova is that compared to a D60LFR or a xcelsior they are behind in ride quality due to being so low and the wheel base being closer.. yet I’m sure that can be adjusted 

 

btw if you’re a driver of nova and new Flyer products.. you’d understand that in terms of blind spots and pillars on the left, it’s new Flyer that needed that change. Not nova, make a left turn in a new Flyer and you’ll see how many “oh s*it” moments where a pedestrian falls in the blind spot 

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