Future TTC Bus Orders

[Xtrazsteve]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

If they can schedule it properly two routes could share a bus Bay.  

Just no. Not even considerable. The 191 and 192 cannot share the same bus bay. It was like this for years before the artic bus bay at then east end was built and that was a bad setup. TTC actually analysed their rider's behaviour and fixed the problem. Sharing has 2 major problems.

1. The 191 and 192 don't share the same riders and they arrive way too frequent. People going to the airport will never ever take the 191 and Humber College students will never take the 192. On top of that, there is a significant amount of people that only want the 191C while some need the 191D. The other 60% of the riders can take 191C or D but would prefer D as it's faster. There's already 50 people standing around in PM rush almost immediately after a bus leaves. Convert to artic and there would be 70 people. Now you want the 192 there too with people pulling luggage tripping over these 70 people blocking the way?

This isn't the 86/116 busy bay where the 2 routes share a major portion of the route. Half the riders can board either bus. Kennedy and Finch aren't ideal. They are just out of room. Even then, they got the 199C it's own bay and let all the 36's share one artic bay. The 36A/D/F comes more frequent than the 199C but they share more of the same riders. The 199C has more riders that doesn't want the 199A.

2. The 192 is moved to be the closed to the elevator. The artic buy is at the furthest away from the elevator where the 192 used to be around there. There were people pulling luggage across the station back then. They wouldn't want to undo that and make it customer unfriendly again.

If they only implement artics on the 191, they just have to shift bays oppose to creating more overlapping. Even the 44/188 have problems sharing a bay when they both go to the exact same destination. The 188 is the only route out of the 5 express services introduced last year that didn't meet the 1 year target. I wonder why? Is it cause it can't make all it's trips and is always late? Maybe if the 44 wasn't always blocking the bay, it would help.

[dre]

ttc is becoming Société de transport de Montréal 440 new nova buses coming your way toronto  http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2017/September_5/Reports/9_PA_Purchase_440_Low_Floor_Clean_Diesel_Buses.pdf

 

[WoodbineSecondExit]

24 minutes ago, dre said:

ttc is becoming Société de transport de Montréal 440 new nova buses coming your way toronto  http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2017/September_5/Reports/9_PA_Purchase_440_Low_Floor_Clean_Diesel_Buses.pdf

 

Quote

Therefore the influx of new buses in 2018 and 2019 will greatly improve vehicle availability/reliability and maintenance costs, and help in the transition from an 18 year bus life to a 12-15 year bus life.

I thought the city already rejected the idea of reducing cycle life to 15 years?

[dj.surf.lfs]

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2017/September_5/Reports/8_PA__Purchase_60_Low_Floor_Wheel-Trans_Mini_Buses.pdf

[Millennium2002]

This time around, New Flyer passed on all but cost and delivery timelines. That's a bummer.

[lip]

Great stuff just like I feared, more awkwardly designed buses coming are way. 

[Xtrazsteve]

TTC is the new STM. There will be 1000+ novas before the end of this decade now 

[leylandvictory2]

2 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

TTC is the new STM. There will be 1000+ novas before the end of this decade now 

interesting.  Majority of the drivers absolutely hate the Nova.

[lip]

3 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

interesting.  Majority of the drivers absolutely hate the Nova.

That doesnt surprise me at all, and it's not just TTC drivers that hate the Novas. There have been complaints for years about it but yet Nova continues to get away with the design. Large municipalities could easily get together and request a new bus design that would be suitable for their needs but they dont.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

Drivers might hate the new buses but excepting the low roof in some sections as a passenger I prefer them over all of the other previous low floors the TTC has had mostly because of the wide doors at front and back.

[anyfong]

3 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Drivers might hate the new buses but excepting the low roof in some sections as a passenger I prefer them over all of the other previous low floors the TTC has had mostly because of the wide doors at front and back.

All TTC Novas have wide doors front and rear. Which part of the low roof is in the bus, front or rear, perhaps the driver's seat? I never felt the roof was too low.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

The overhead parts over the raised section at the back. I still get my head bumping into it sometimes. The wide doors are waaaay better on the streetcar replacements. The older buses take forever for people to move around and enter/leave when it gets crowded.

[Antarctica]

39 minutes ago, anyfong said:

All TTC Novas have wide doors front and rear. Which part of the low roof is in the bus, front or rear, perhaps the driver's seat? I never felt the roof was too low.

...and no rear window.

8 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

TTC is the new STM. There will be 1000+ novas before the end of this decade now 

Not really. TTC had 1709 GM New Looks built from 1959-1983 and 1188 NovaBUS LFS close to being built too. The LFS are spreading across Toronto just like their ancestors did decades ago.

[Cityflyer]

TTC had 1573 Orion VIIs at one point. They will still need another large order of LFSes to reach the VIIs' (at one point's) max numbers.

[Shaun]

11 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Drivers might hate the new buses but excepting the low roof in some sections as a passenger I prefer them over all of the other previous low floors the TTC has had mostly because of the wide doors at front and back.

What do drivers not like about them?

[yrt1000]

They're a strange design. I think for the drivers, where their seat is located and how far forward they sit relative to the doors, and where the fare box is located means they have to turn their head/neck much more to see fares or give out transfers and that probably causes neck or back pain. As well, the driver area is much smaller than on the VIIs

[Shaun]

The only thing I dislike are the rear doors. I think it's dumb that they open into the passenger compartment. But doors that swing out get stuck in snow banks. Both have their disadvantages.

The fact that they have a short wheel base should make them easier to turn, and have a tighter turn radius. 

[G.A]

2 minutes ago, Shaun said:

The only thing I dislike are the rear doors. I think it's dumb that they open into the passenger compartment. But doors that swing out get stuck in snow banks. Both have their disadvantages.

The fact that they have a short wheel base should make them easier to turn, and have a tighter turn radius. 

They have a great turning radius. I live in a city thats 100% Nova.

[Ed T.]

48 minutes ago, Shaun said:

The only thing I dislike are the rear doors. I think it's dumb that they open into the passenger compartment.

I think that's great. It somewhat dissuades the people who think the rear door area is their personal standy-stall. Typically an Orion VII will have lots of space, maybe empty seats, but there will be two people leaning on the rear door shields, one in front and one in back.

The D40LFs, with the centre pole, were even better at keeping these cud-chewing passengers out of the rear door area.

[lip]

Normally i'd agree with Ed but on a bus where standing space is a premium to find when it's packed, any inch gained is really a benefit so I dont think the rear doors flinging into the passenger area is advantageous. Had they designed the doors like on the XD40 or D40LFs that would have been better.

[Orion V]

I've never seen a wide door (as wide as the TTC LFS) swing out. I've only seen them as sliding inward or plug type like on the AG300 middle door.

[leylandvictory2]

8 hours ago, Shaun said:

What do drivers not like about them?

1) blind spots.  So many especially at the front

2) tail swing is pretty big.  With thr poles so close to the curb it does take much for the bus to take out the pole

3) the panel is too low.  For a guy like me 5 foot 4 can bump into the panel that's pretty bad

4) mirrors are horrible.  The most important one ia so bloody small and placed way at the bottom.  Tall people has a hard time to look at it.  I even had a sore neck the first time i drove it

5) lack of leg room for tall drivers.

6) the dash board ia a joke with all the symbols.  The driver has to look at a chart to see whats wrong with the bus.

7) retarder is pretty bad.  A software update or getting used to it makes the braking smoother

8) suspension is crap too soft.  Cant drive fast on bumpy roads or you send people flying.

9) front door is too big.  You have to crank your neck just to greet passengers.

10) access to safety triangle is pain in the butt.

11) parking brake hard to reach.

 

[Transit geek]

56 minutes ago, leylandvictory2 said:

ffff1) blind spots.  So many especially at the front

2) tail swing is pretty big.  With thr poles so close to the curb it does take much for the bus to take out the pole

3) the panel is too low.  For a guy like me 5 foot 4 can bump into the panel that's pretty bad

4) mirrors are horrible.  The most important one ia so bloody small and placed way at the bottom.  Tall people has a hard time to look at it.  I even had a sore neck the first time i drove it

5) lack of leg room for tall drivers.

6) the dash board ia a joke with all the symbols.  The driver has to look at a chart to see whats wrong with the bus.

7) retarder is pretty bad.  A software update or getting used to it makes the braking smoother

8) suspension is crap too soft.  Cant drive fast on bumpy roads or you send people flying.

9) front door is too big.  You have to crank your neck just to greet passengers.

10) access to safety triangle is pain in the butt.

11) parking brake hard to reach.

 

Well I remember about a year ago I was on a 2016 Nova LFS operated by DRT. The driver, who I knew from regular trips on the route, complained that the new Novas were a far cry from the old ones for two main reasons: one, they accelerate so slowly, and two, the brake pedal had to be pushed all the way down in order to release the air brakes when stopped. I do hope to pay a visit to DRT's garage soon and feel all of this c*** for myself (though it'd be hard since I have no C class licence and have no plans to get one).

But with regards to your points, it's hard to disagree with any of them. I haven't experienced what it's like to sit in the LFS driver's area, but I have to especially point out the cryptic dashboard. The multifunction display under the speedometer isn't mitigating the ergonomic problems, which by the way are the crappiest of any transit bus I've ever seen. I believe some LFS's are equipped with LCD displays centered above the steering column,

, but that doesn't help. Everything is just too hard to read, period. Not to mention the exaggerated amount of overhang from the front end (and hence the blind spots). Nova just wanted to make its product stand out and that's why they designed the bus like that.

[Xtrazsteve]

2 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

1) blind spots.  So many especially at the front

2) tail swing is pretty big.  With thr poles so close to the curb it does take much for the bus to take out the pole

3) the panel is too low.  For a guy like me 5 foot 4 can bump into the panel that's pretty bad

4) mirrors are horrible.  The most important one ia so bloody small and placed way at the bottom.  Tall people has a hard time to look at it.  I even had a sore neck the first time i drove it

5) lack of leg room for tall drivers.

6) the dash board ia a joke with all the symbols.  The driver has to look at a chart to see whats wrong with the bus.

7) retarder is pretty bad.  A software update or getting used to it makes the braking smoother

8) suspension is crap too soft.  Cant drive fast on bumpy roads or you send people flying.

9) front door is too big.  You have to crank your neck just to greet passengers.

10) access to safety triangle is pain in the butt.

11) parking brake hard to reach.

 

6. I remember talking to a op driving an artic for the first time back in 2014. He had no idea why the exclamation light was on. Yeah, I don't know who designed such a thing cause 95% of the human beings on earth won't remember all of them.

9. The door and operator seat is misaligned. Most TAs order the 70/30% doors and would only open the larger one. TTC certainly thought more about strollers than the operators.

[leylandvictory2]

7 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

6. I remember talking to a op driving an artic for the first time back in 2014. He had no idea why the exclamation light was on. Yeah, I don't know who designed such a thing cause 95% of the human beings on earth won't remember all of them.

9. The door and operator seat is misaligned. Most TAs order the 70/30% doors and would only open the larger one. TTC certainly thought more about strollers than the operators.

yea, I thought something was wrong with the red exclamation mark.  My instructor never mentioned it to me.  It turns out it means the external announcement has been disabled.