Simcoe County Transit

[GTAmissions1]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Those times should at least match the first and last train into Barrie. 

The challenge is that the last departures clear out by approximately 6:30 PM. Take for example Route 2, the last departure from Allandale Waterfront to Wasaga Beach is 6:30 PM and if coming from Toronto, only the 4:38 PM departure from Union would make it close enough to connect to that departure. Assuming there are no delays.

Route 5 Bradford to Alliston, the last departure from Bradford Go is 5:20 PM which is a challenge. I would think that it would be at least 5:20 AM until at least 7:20 PM in the evening. To at least cover all trips running from Bradford Go Station. 

I do agree that they should ensure the times match the first and last departures during the peak period at least if connecting from the Go Train. A lot has changed from the introduction of Route 1 just over 2 years ago. Covering the gaps that aren't served by the intercity carriers or with limited departures requiring planning ahead of time. 

[MiExpress]

The recent tender for buses for Simcoe LINX and Midland Transit was awarded to Grande West for 30ft Vicinity buses. Simcoe will receive 3 buses and Midland 1 bus.

According to a council report, route 6 Midland-Orillia is still planned to start later this fall but this is based on recieving the rest of the buses from Alexander Dennis, which was delayed due to the pandemic. 

[Loud-Invero]

Spotted 1826 on the Georgian Route (Memorial/Glencoe @5:56 PM)

[GTAmissions1]

1 hour ago, Loud-Invero said:

Spotted 1826 on the Georgian Route (Memorial/Glencoe @5:56 PM)

Wrong thread. Orillia Transit has a dedicated thread right here.

FYI: Orillia Transit operates only six buses because of the small network. It isn't that hard to spot new buses considering that pretty much any bus (Nova LFS, D40LF or XD40) can be in revenue service.

This thread is for Simcoe County Linx which is the intercity transit for Simcoe County.

[Loud-Invero]

Thanks. Tried the search option and this is the thread it lead me to  my apologies.

[97SCT]

Orillia-Midland route will not stop in Port McNicoll; https://www.orilliamatters.com/midland-news/new-midland-orillia-bus-route-wont-stop-in-port-mcnicoll-2810510

[GTAmissions1]

57 minutes ago, 97SCT said:

Orillia-Midland route will not stop in Port McNicoll; https://www.orilliamatters.com/midland-news/new-midland-orillia-bus-route-wont-stop-in-port-mcnicoll-2810510

Just read the article. The challenge is having to do the loop around Port McNicoll which reroutes off Highway 12. Trying to maintain a headway of 60 minutes with two buses. Especially adding this section may require a third bus which adds to the cost and a schedule rewrite. On top of people who may want to transfer onto a bus connecting to Barrie via Georgian College or RVH.

That can be difficult noting the Route 3 runs every 50 minutes versus Route 1 which operates every hour. Based on regular scheduled times. 

[MiExpress]

Simcoe LINX staff recently gave a presentation to Tay Township council regarding the launch of route 6 (Orillia-Midland) this summer. There were requests to divert the route to serve Port McNicoll as mentioned above but staff do not support that as the devation would take too long and require a third bus.

Route 6 will operate between Lakehead University in Orillia and Georgian College's Midland campus via Highway 12. Stops will be at West Ridge/Monarch (Orillia); Highway 12 near Warminster Sideroad (Warminster); Coldwater Rd/Michael Anne Dr (Coldwater); Sturgeon Bay Rd/Pine St (Waubaushene); Oakwood Community Centre and Richard St/Albert St (Victoria Harbor); Jones Rd south of Highway 12 (Midland).

Service will operate Monday to Friday from 6am to 6pm.

The presentation notes that there are currently 14 buses in the fleet (11 30ft and 3 35 ft) as well as 7 specialized vans. However the CPTDB Wiki lists 12 30ft buses with the latest being 6009-6012 (2020 model 30ft Enviro 200). Given the information I wonder if there is really only 3 in that order (6009-6011) as It doesn't look like a bus 6012 has ever tracked in service nor any photos of it. Past county reports stated that the 2020 order was to be for 8 full size buses but delivery kept being delayed and it seems the county only took delivery of 3 buses.

There are 3 30ft Vicinity buses on order for delivery by the summer. 

https://calendar.tay.ca/Module/Calendar/Document/Download/d2b1ccdf-e227-4055-ab33-884e47df02a4 (page 4-23)

[MCI102A3]

22 hours ago, MiExpress said:

Simcoe LINX staff recently gave a presentation to Tay Township council regarding the launch of route 6 (Orillia-Midland) this summer. There were requests to divert the route to serve Port McNicoll as mentioned above but staff do not support that as the devation would take too long and require a third bus.

Route 6 will operate between Lakehead University in Orillia and Georgian College's Midland campus via Highway 12. Stops will be at West Ridge/Monarch (Orillia); Highway 12 near Warminster Sideroad (Warminster); Coldwater Rd/Michael Anne Dr (Coldwater); Sturgeon Bay Rd/Pine St (Waubaushene); Oakwood Community Centre and Richard St/Albert St (Victoria Harbor); Jones Rd south of Highway 12 (Midland).

Service will operate Monday to Friday from 6am to 6pm.

The presentation notes that there are currently 14 buses in the fleet (11 30ft and 3 35 ft) as well as 7 specialized vans. However the CPTDB Wiki lists 12 30ft buses with the latest being 6009-6012 (2020 model 30ft Enviro 200). Given the information I wonder if there is really only 3 in that order (6009-6011) as It doesn't look like a bus 6012 has ever tracked in service nor any photos of it. Past county reports stated that the 2020 order was to be for 8 full size buses but delivery kept being delayed and it seems the county only took delivery of 3 buses.

There are 3 30ft Vicinity buses on order for delivery by the summer. 

https://calendar.tay.ca/Module/Calendar/Document/Download/d2b1ccdf-e227-4055-ab33-884e47df02a4 (page 4-23)

I find it rather peculiar that they won't connect to Route 1 in Midland. If the goal is of an inter-connected network, this route would be much harder to access. You want to connect to these routes in Midland, it requires an hour's bus ride on Midland Transit to get to them.

[MiExpress]

9 hours ago, MCI102A3 said:

I find it rather peculiar that they won't connect to Route 1 in Midland. If the goal is of an inter-connected network, this route would be much harder to access. You want to connect to these routes in Midland, it requires an hour's bus ride on Midland Transit to get to them.

Google maps gives 46 minutes to travel the proposed routing of route 6 by car; with bus speeds and dwell times at stops it's likely that one trip will take over 50 minutes to complete end to end. Add in layover time at each end and that amounts to a 120 minute round trip with 60 minutes frequency using 2 buses.

Having the route extend to Huronia Mall would mean a 3rd bus to maintain the 60 minutes frequency, this is also the reason Port McNicoll isn't being serviced. Huronia Mall already has 4 different bus routes serving it (LINX 1, Midland bus Penetanguishene bus, Chimnissing) with not much room for buses as is. 

As for someone along route 6 wanting to connect to route 1 (to Barrie most likely) it would probably be just as fast to take route 6 to Orillia and then transfer to route 3 at Lakehead University. 

[GTAmissions1]

Route 3 Barrie to Orillia is planned to be reduced to peak periods only with frequency every 100 minutes with one bus effective March 1st. Mid-day service will be temporarily discontinued.

The only other option for midday service between Barrie and Orillia will be Ontario Northland assuming capacity is available. 

 

[2822]

How come route 3 has had the most drastic service cuts? Route 2 has two buses all day along with the 5. I would of thought the Barrie to Orillia route would have higher ridership then say Alliston?  

[MCI102A3]

12 minutes ago, 2822 said:

How come route 3 has had the most drastic service cuts? Route 2 has two buses all day along with the 5. I would of thought the Barrie to Orillia route would have higher ridership then say Alliston?  

I guess because it really only goes from the northern outskirts of Barrie to the southern outskirts of Orillia?

Meanwhile the ONR service goes from Downtown to Downtown, where most people wanna go (to connect to every route in both cities). Idk how the County justified this.

[G.A]

37 minutes ago, MCI102A3 said:

I guess because it really only goes from the northern outskirts of Barrie to the southern outskirts of Orillia?

Meanwhile the ONR service goes from Downtown to Downtown, where most people wanna go (to connect to every route in both cities). Idk how the County justified this.

That's not looking good. I think what they should have all the routes go to the downtown cores. None of this have it at the outskirts of town go to another outskirts of town. That would have been more convenient for riders.

[GTAmissions1]

2 hours ago, 2822 said:

How come route 3 has had the most drastic service cuts? Route 2 has two buses all day along with the 5. I would of thought the Barrie to Orillia route would have higher ridership then say Alliston?  

From my times riding the Route 3, it is the Georgian College students that made up a good portion of the demand. Since the campuses are limited to which students can attend, the demand has dropped significantly. Since some courses are only offered in Orillia such as police foundations for example. 

Reason why Route 2 still operates with two buses is to maintain connections with Route 4 for those looking to head directly to Collingwood/Barrie. If it was reduced to one bus, the problem would be that you could have some waiting two hours for a transfer. 

 

1 hour ago, G.A said:

That's not looking good. I think what they should have all the routes go to the downtown cores. None of this have it at the outskirts of town go to another outskirts of town. That would have been more convenient for riders.

From what I have heard, Barrie is trying to move their major bus operations to Allandale Waterfront which would handle intercity, local and train connections in one spot. Orillia is also doing the same planning to build their own transit terminal instead of the on-street setup that is currently employed by Orillia Transit. 

Regarding the Orillia Transit Terminal, it is still many years away considering it would take time to locate a site and gather the necessary approvals. 

I do agree they should operate to the downtown terminals if possible especially with the amenities. Considering that I do see people ask how they connect to the Linx bus from somewhere like the Georgian Mall. They would be very lucky if they find a transit operator who understands what they are referring to. 

At the same time, I think it comes down to running time since they only have so many resources. Noting the issue with Port McNicoll and how it would take additional resources to service the stop. Being pushed several times due to schedule risks and trying to work with what they have. 

[MCI102A3]

1 hour ago, G.A said:

That's not looking good. I think what they should have all the routes go to the downtown cores. None of this have it at the outskirts of town go to another outskirts of town. That would have been more convenient for riders.

I have my own proposal. Have the routes to North Simcoe terminate Downtown, and the routes from barrie to South Simcoe terminate at Allandale. And the Orillia route should terminate at their new Downtown Terminal when it opens. It's like how Allegiant Airlines with their clapped out MD-80s flies from say, Fargo to Wichita at noon. Who really wants to go there. Likewise, for somebody from Barrie who wants to take transit to Orillia... who wants to take two buses to get to the Barrie end of LINX 3, then once in Orillia, have to take up to two buses to get to their final destination? And that's before we even factor in cross-County trips that have to go through Barrie. At least if the northern routes terminated Downtown, it's only a 5 minute bus ride on any bus going up Bradford Street to get from the Barrie end of LINX 2 or any other future LINX route serving the South to get to the northern routes, not having to take 2-3 Barrie buses across town to get to them.

12 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

From my times riding the Route 3, it is the Georgian College students that made up a good portion of the demand. Since the campuses are limited to which students can attend, the demand has dropped significantly. Since some courses are only offered in Orillia such as police foundations for example. 

Reason why Route 2 still operates with two buses is to maintain connections with Route 4 for those looking to head directly to Collingwood/Barrie. If it was reduced to one bus, the problem would be that you could have some waiting two hours for a transfer. 

 

From what I have heard, Barrie is trying to move their major bus operations to Allandale Waterfront which would handle intercity, local and train connections in one spot. Orillia is also doing the same planning to build their own transit terminal instead of the on-street setup that is currently employed by Orillia Transit. 

Regarding the Orillia Transit Terminal, it is still many years away considering it would take time to locate a site and gather the necessary approvals. 

I do agree they should operate to the downtown terminals if possible especially with the amenities. Considering that I do see people ask how they connect to the Linx bus from somewhere like the Georgian Mall. They would be very lucky if they find a transit operator who understands what they are referring to. 

At the same time, I think it comes down to running time since they only have so many resources. Noting the issue with Port McNicoll and how it would take additional resources to service the stop. Being pushed several times due to schedule risks and trying to work with what they have. 

The problem with trying to run things on a lean fleet is you're focusing your scheduling on a game of musical chairs to save money when in reality you should be thinking about your customers. Barrie has this problem too, we've only had 2 buses delivered to us since 2017, after 2-3 straight years of retirements. And when we want to improve service, we can't because we simply don't have enough buses. Think every system in Simcoe County has this problem.

 

For Route 6, at the very least, send it to Downtown Midland instead of the outskirts of Midland, or heck, send it to Penetang on the lakefront to connect with the northern terminus of the 1. If it requires a third bus, so be it, but if you don't design a route that connects to adequate transit at both ends of the route, you screw your customers and have more cars on the road.

In my view, for Route 2 it'd also make more sense to have it go direct to Collingwood, perhaps via the 90km/h Highway 26 Bypass they built, that lovely four-land road they built a few years ago. Wasaga gets served before Stayner, then the bus goes to Stayner and then after that finishes up in Collingwood. Add a 20 minute break at each end like they do to Route 1, allow the break for the driver and vehicle.

I look at how Niagara Region Transit has larger buses and operates from central station to central station, their system is brilliant. Simcoe's probs the best regional system north of Toronto, but we can improve it. Otherwise without improvements, we stall and people lose interest.

[GTAmissions1]

14 minutes ago, MCI102A3 said:

The problem with trying to run things on a lean fleet is you're focusing your scheduling on a game of musical chairs to save money when in reality you should be thinking about your customers. Barrie has this problem too, we've only had 2 buses delivered to us since 2017, after 2-3 straight years of retirements. And when we want to improve service, we can't because we simply don't have enough buses. Think every system in Simcoe County has this problem.

You have to note that frequency reductions have taken effect since April 13th (the month when transit agencies began reducing frequencies) due to COVID-19. When Route 1 and 3 have taken a major hit in frequencies. Most notably with Route 3 only operating in peak periods until it was restored in September. 

On top of the rear door boarding that was implemented for several months (I don't account for Route 5 because the first month free is accounted for in the marketing). Right now, I think the transit agencies are focusing more on maintaining their current operations with the lower demand. 

[MCI102A3]

5 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

You have to note that frequency reductions have taken effect since April 13th (the month when transit agencies began reducing frequencies) due to COVID-19. When Route 1 and 3 have taken a major hit in frequencies. Most notably with Route 3 only operating in peak periods until it was restored in September. 

On top of the rear door boarding that was implemented for several months (I don't account for Route 5 because the first month free is accounted for in the marketing). Right now, I think the transit agencies are focusing more on maintaining their current operations with the lower demand. 

Yeah, frequencies I can understand due to lower ridership, but once the pandemic's over, we really need to consider reforming at least the Barrie and Orillia ends of the routes, having their terminals extended to the CBDs of those cities. Otherwise, the only people who'll take the bus will be those with no choice. We have enough gas-guzzling F-150s and RAM pickups on the road here. If we can prevent the need for more of them, why don't we? The issues with connectivity in Barrie go back to when Route 1 launched in 2018. The only really practical route for most people is Route 2 as it terminates at Allandale.

[2822]

I notice Simcoe county has one additional bus ordered for 2022 in addition to the three for 2021 for the 6. Is this extra bus going to be added to a certain route?.

[GTAmissions1]

Route 3 Barrie to Orillia will be adding additional trips to restore mid-day service still operating with one bus at 1 hour and 40 minute frequency (every 100 minutes). Effective June 7th which is this upcoming Monday

https://www.simcoe.ca/CorporateCommunications/Pages/county-increasing-linx-transit-service-on-route-3.aspx

Northbound trips (restored times) 5:45 AM, 10:45 AM, 12:25 PM and 2:05 PM

Southbound trips (restored times) 10:05 AM, 11:45 AM and 1:25 PM

The reason why service is still on reduced levels for Route 3 is because most of the college/university students are doing remote learning and limited amount of programs are done on-campus currently. Reducing service to peak periods without the trip generators to justify running mid-day service. Hopefully they will retain the mid-day service without suspending it again. Ontario Northland also has reduced trips to better manage existing resources to match demand. 

[MiExpress]

Route 6 (Orillia to Midland) will begin operation on Tuesday, August 2, 2021. Service for the first month of this route will be free with fares charged beginning in September 2021.

No mention on whether the 4 Vicinity buses (3 30', 1 35') on order have been received however there was a interesting note about the county needing to consider the possibility of establishing their own bus storage facilities as the contractor facilities (First student) are nearing capacity and there are challenges finding suitable indoor storage space.

Subject: County of Simcoe Transit – Status Update

[G.A]

6016 and 6018 were tracking on Transsee earlier today

[Cimon8000]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:24 PM, G.A said:

6016 and 6018 were tracking on Transsee earlier today

They are Vicinity correct?

[G.A]

18 hours ago, Cimon8000 said:

They are Vicinity correct?

I believe so. They were ordered for 2021. 

[GTAmissions1]

The schedule has been posted for Route 6 Midland to Orillia.

From both Midland Georgian College campus and Lakehead campus in Orillia: Departures are hourly from 6 AM to 6 PM on weekdays only with two buses.

Route 6 will ONLY connect with Route 3 at Lakehead University which the frequency has been adjusted to compensate connecting between the two routes. 

Route changes effective August 3rd for Route 3:

Route 3 Barrie to Orillia will operate every two hours instead of every 100 minutes (1 hour and 40 minutes). Here is the new first and last departures with a departure every two hours in-between trips. 

Lakehead University first departure: 6 AM until 6 PM being the final departure. 

Georgian College Barrie campus first departure: 7 AM until 5 PM (final departure).

Not going to lie, two hours is a lot more easier to plan than every 50/100 minutes. Once regular service is restored, it will be hourly which is a lot easier to plan. I know 50 minutes is 10 minutes less, but it is hard to predict if coming from local transit that operates every half-hour and coming at a fixed time.