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Just now, Bus_Medic said:

So long as it’s not blinding to oncoming traffic. That’s a very common issue with aftermarket kits, and why I stick to halogen in my own ride.

Agreed. I hate aftermarket hid kits in halogen housing. Bright with tons of glare. 

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 12:46 AM, Someguy3071 said:

He's talking about these. They're not as good as the Nova headlights but way brighter the regular Orion lights. You can actually see what's in front of the bus with these.  

IMG_20181226_235834__01.jpg

8006 has LED or HID retrofitted lights as well.

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On 12/24/2018 at 8:44 PM, BYD said:

Be on the lookout for #1291 on the 21C BRIMLEY with the LED fluorescent headlights on the front. 

Is there any special reason for the new lights?

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1 hour ago, Orion VI said:

Is there any special reason for the new lights?

A trial maybe? Perhaps they want to retrofit those buses so they are more visible, so pedestrians are more likely to notice and not jump in front.

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3 hours ago, MK78 said:

A trial maybe? Perhaps they want to retrofit those buses so they are more visible, so pedestrians are more likely to notice and not jump in front.

nah.  Pedestrians like to walk in front of the bus to ensure the driver waits for them.  

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4 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

nah.  Pedestrians like to walk in front of the bus to ensure the driver waits for them.  

Yeah those pedestrians get to wait for the next bus. 🤦‍♂️

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7 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Yeah those pedestrians get to wait for the next bus. 🤦‍♂️

you do that, you will hear from your boss shortly.  You will have to explain why you didn't open the doors for them.  Had to dealt with this several times already trust me.  

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12 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

 Pedestrians like to walk in front of the bus to ensure the driver waits for them.  

That's the only way I seem to get 143 buses to stop on Adelaide lately - at Princess. Fortunately traffic moves pretty slowly ... simply standing at the stop doesn't work. Drivers keep zooming past if you don't jump into the roadway and start waving before the bus passes ...

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Just now, leylandvictory2 said:

you do that, you will hear from your boss shortly.  You will have to explain why you didn't open the doors for them.  Had to dealt with this several times already trust me.  

I saw an incident of that yesterday, but out of respect for the driver, I didn't report it. It wasn't me, I was driving in front of the bus. It was a 105x OG HEV on 47 near davenport. He told the person to get on the bus on the other side of the street because the stop was on the south side of the intersection and he didn't end up stopping. The guy who wanted to get on was a bit tipsy, I think, but whatever.

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4 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

you do that, you will hear from your boss shortly.  You will have to explain why you didn't open the doors for them.  Had to dealt with this several times already trust me.  

Yes, rewarding bad behaviour is how you get people to stop doing it.

If it's rush hour with tons of service they're getting a next bus. Late relief or night bus I would pick em up with a few words like "Do you want to die? Because that's what will happen if you get hit by a bus." You can tell by their reaction that to some people that didn't even occurr as a thought. They can complain about that too. 

And if course they're always wearing dark colors to make themselves much more visible. 🙄 

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6 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Yes, rewarding bad behaviour is how you get people to stop doing it.

If it's rush hour with tons of service they're getting a next bus. Late relief or night bus I would pick em up with a few words like "Do you want to die? Because that's what will happen if you get hit by a bus." You can tell by their reaction that to some people that didn't even occurr as a thought. They can complain about that too. 

And if course they're always wearing dark colors to make themselves much more visible. 🙄 

You have to choose your battle.  A driver closed the doors after the guy was safely stepped on the sidewalk.  The driver took off.  The passenger then ran right in front of the bus to prevent it from moving further.  In that case what do you do?  This is a real story trust me.  

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Driver should  have waited til the guy was right by the door and couldn't get in front of the bus. But yes pick your battles. Once I move the bus from the platform or stop I'm not letting anyone on. 

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1 minute ago, Someguy3071 said:

Driver should  have waited til the guy was right by the door and couldn't get in front of the bus. But yes pick your battles. Once I move the bus from the platform or stop I'm not letting anyone on. 

You're a nice guy, eh?

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6 minutes ago, Someguy3071 said:

Driver should  have waited til the guy was right by the door and couldn't get in front of the bus. But yes pick your battles. Once I move the bus from the platform or stop I'm not letting anyone on. 

he did. 

Buses are very slow at accelerating from 0 km. 

The guy was pissed off and started running and blocked the bus.   

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23 minutes ago, 7575 said:

You're a nice guy, eh?

I'm just following rules. And thinking back to training days they tell you to only pick people up at the platform and stops.  Even request stops at night are only if it's safe to do so. I'm just being safe 😁

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Just now, Someguy3071 said:

I'm just following rules. And thinking back to training days they tell you to only pick people up at the platform and stops.  Even request stops at night are only if it's safe to do so. I'm just being safe 😁

Ok now I get it but it came off rude so that's why I made my comment.

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On 12/31/2018 at 1:34 PM, BusFreak93 said:

8006 has LED or HID retrofitted lights as well.

So I spoke to the engineering technologist responsible today, he happened to be at birchmount for cad/avl related business. He chuckled to himself when I told him how quickly you kids caught on. (Less than two weeks)😋

Yes, they are LED, and yes it is a trial. It appears to be successful too. He said he likely would have tried them out earlier, but he was holding out for a legitimately Transport Canada approved H3 bulb for the NG Orion’s. They’ll use up the old existing stock of halogens before you see any more outfitted, replace as they burn out.

Retrofitting  the older bodied Orions was delayed also- because LED drop ins produce much less heat than the regular H4656 low beams. In the winter this can actually be problematic since any snow and ice buildup wouldn’t melt off the LED units. Including a miniature defrosting circuit in them, similar to a rear window has only recently come on the market for that specific size.

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21 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Driver should  have waited til the guy was right by the door and couldn't get in front of the bus. But yes pick your battles. Once I move the bus from the platform or stop I'm not letting anyone on. 

Which makes sense, if you've gone a distance, or are in the middle of the road. But a small minority of poor operators seem to take delight at applying this unnecessarily, when the vehicle is still in the curb lane, and is stuck in traffic, so close to the stop, that the back doors haven't even passed the sign yet!

Any competent driver should be able to apply the rules as necessary, without using it to abuse their customers.

Abusive drivers should be terminated with prejudice.

At the same time, I've seen drivers try and drop people not in the curb lane, and then when I've asked them how I can safely exit here, as I wouldn't be allowed to board here, I've had a threat to not let me off anywhere, and lock me on the bus until they re-entered service (near the end of a route)!

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37 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

Retrofitting  the older bodied Orions was delayed also- because LED drop ins produce much less heat than the regular H4656 low beams. In the winter this can actually be problematic since any snow and ice buildup wouldn’t melt off the LED units. Including a miniature defrosting circuit in them, similar to a rear window has only recently come on the market for that specific size. 

Yeah that's a similar issue various municipalities have had when trying to adopt energy saving LED traffic light upgrades, the early adopters in cold climates found out quickly that they were icing over/packing with snow/etc. I think solutions have now been found with some built in heating element. It doesn't freeze, but it does use up more energy, but still less than incandescent bulbs did.

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Which makes sense, if you've gone a distance, or are in the middle of the road. But a small minority of poor operators seem to take delight at applying this unnecessarily, when the vehicle is still in the curb lane, and is stuck in traffic, so close to the stop, that the back doors haven't even passed the sign yet!

Any competent driver should be able to apply the rules as necessary, without using it to abuse their customers.



At the same time, I've seen drivers try and drop people not in the curb lane, and then when I've asked them how I can safely exit here, as I wouldn't be allowed to board here, I've had a threat to not let me off anywhere, and lock me on the bus until they re-entered service (near the end of a route)!

I will never drop people off with a live lane on the right. No matter what. There are time that you have to drop people off not in the curb lane but only if no vehicles can come between the bus and the curb. 

You also need to consider that we can't wait for everyone especially during rush hour when there is another bus a few minutes behind. This is not about drivers being aholes. Say I wait for a person because they're so close to the stop and I can't make the light. Some of these lights can take up to two minutes to cycle. Not I'm two minutes down. You do this a couple of times and you really get behind. Now the following bus catches up because it's running on schedule. 

So you have a big gap with the bus in front and people get all upset when two buses show up together. At this point it's  very difficult to make up time and get back on schedule because you have many more people to pick up since the gap in the service is larger. If the operator in the bus that just caught up to you helps you out by passing  and running ahead of their schedule and picking up some people you could make up time. If they choose to just sit behind you and ride your ass because they're on schedule and don't care about helping you out, there's no way to make up that time and you'll get two buses driving down together with a big gap in service. 

Now you as the person that was right by the stop and didn't get picked up will call us aholes and rude or even call and complain, but you're only looking at it from a selfish point of view. If you look at the big picture being "nice" is actually screwing everyone else. 

And as far as your comment "Abusive drivers should be terminated with prejudice."

What's an abusive driver? 

Just because you didn't get picked up doesn't make a driver an abusive driver. There could be a number of reasons why they didn't wait. 

Now granted there are some drivers that are aholes but they are most definitely in the small minority. 

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4 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

I will never drop people off with a live lane on the right. No matter what. There are time that you have to drop people off not in the curb lane but only if no vehicles can come between the bus and the curb. 

That all makes sense. If the stop is blocked with a car behind, and one can't pull in, it's not unsafe ...

The occasion in question the operator was for some reason trying to go off the route and turn left at the last stop, rather than following the norm, and go straight, and turn left at the next block. So arbitrarily stopped in the left lane, and unloaded everyone, even the the other lane was live. I can't comprehend ... particularly as I then walked the two blocks that where they normally do the turn, and everything was 100% normal. It was rather odd ... from a customer standpoint, one sees a lot of inconsistency with operators.

 

4 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Just because you didn't get picked up doesn't make a driver an abusive driver.

You are using examples where buses are moving. I'm using examples, where the bus, has moved 5 feet off the stop, is still in the curb lane, is stuck in traffic on a light that has just turned red, and won't open the door because "they've already serviced the stop".

Skip-stopping isn't an issue, when there's two buses together - used to see it all the time when I commuted on the 25. The only complaints I've made in years about missed stops, have been on a route than only runs every 20 minutes, the bus wasn't in the curb lane, and people were very blatantly stood at the stop ... I suspect there was a disconnect between operations and customer service on where the stop was supposed to be it was so frequent and blatant ... but you know customer service. They want to blame operators instead of management ...
 

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1 minute ago, nfitz said:

You are using examples where buses are moving. I'm using examples, where the bus, has moved 5 feet off the stop, is still in the curb lane, is stuck in traffic on a light that has just turned red, and won't open the door because "they've already serviced the stop".

I actually haven't seen this in a long time, at least here in the east end. A lot of operators even stop after moving from a stop (not at intersection) and let the person running for the bus on.

In general I've experienced the operators being more curteous and nice. Typically if I exit by the front door I always say thanks and almost always get a response, where in years prior you'd rarely get a grunt back (LOL). Some operators even say have a nice day etc on their own.

Maybe its the better ride in the Nova Buses makes them happy. I certainly don't miss the front suspension bottoming out in the Orions I'm sure the operators don't either!

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

I actually haven't seen this in a long time, at least here in the east end. A lot of operators even stop after moving from a stop (not at intersection) and let the person running for the bus on.

In general I've experienced the operators being more curteous and nice. Typically if I exit by the front door I always say thanks and almost always get a response, where in years prior you'd rarely get a grunt back (LOL). Some operators even say have a nice day etc on their own.

Maybe its the better ride in the Nova Buses makes them happy. I certainly don't miss the front suspension bottoming out in the Orions I'm sure the operators don't either!

You're mostly right with your comment. I will take an Orion over a Nova anyday 😁

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

That all makes sense. If the stop is blocked with a car behind, and one can't pull in, it's not unsafe ...

The occasion in question the operator was for some reason trying to go off the route and turn left at the last stop, rather than following the norm, and go straight, and turn left at the next block. So arbitrarily stopped in the left lane, and unloaded everyone, even the the other lane was live. I can't comprehend ... particularly as I then walked the two blocks that where they normally do the turn, and everything was 100% normal. It was rather odd ... from a customer standpoint, one sees a lot of inconsistency with operators.

 

You are using examples where buses are moving. I'm using examples, where the bus, has moved 5 feet off the stop, is still in the curb lane, is stuck in traffic on a light that has just turned red, and won't open the door because "they've already serviced the stop".

Skip-stopping isn't an issue, when there's two buses together - used to see it all the time when I commuted on the 25. The only complaints I've made in years about missed stops, have been on a route than only runs every 20 minutes, the bus wasn't in the curb lane, and people were very blatantly stood at the stop ... I suspect there was a disconnect between operations and customer service on where the stop was supposed to be it was so frequent and blatant ... but you know customer service. They want to blame operators instead of management ...
 

If I moved from the stop but I'm stopped at a red light I will let people on providing that it's safe for them to board. Example would be not having to go through a snowbank. If I'm driving late in the evening or night bus and I'm coming to an intersection and I see a connecting bus, I'll stop and see if anyone is getting off and wants my bus. 

One thing I will not do is stop in the middle of an intersection to pick people up. It's just not safe. If need be I'll even stop at the far side of the intersection if people can board there safely.  

I just don't understand why an operator would drop people off into a live lane. If I was a passenger I certainly wouldn't get off the bus that way. 

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

I actually haven't seen this in a long time, at least here in the east end. A lot of operators even stop after moving from a stop (not at intersection) and let the person running for the bus on.

In general I've experienced the operators being more curteous and nice. Typically if I exit by the front door I always say thanks and almost always get a response, where in years prior you'd rarely get a grunt back (LOL). Some operators even say have a nice day etc on their own.

Don't get me wrong, most are fine. Some go out of their way to be great. Though I don't really care if they reply or not when I think them ..  there a lots of other things they should be focusing on at a busy stop when I get off.

And it's certainly improved. Though I've noticed over the years less issues with streetcar operators than bus operators - though I think there might be a disturbing trend of Flexity operators who don't think they need to talk to customers - but the sample size is small ... little need to talk to them, particularly as I normally am right at the back, because it's less crowded - and I get on/off at very busy stops on 504.
 

24 minutes ago, Someguy3071 said:

One thing I will not do is stop in the middle of an intersection to pick people up. It's just not safe.

Good! It's not safe!

 

24 minutes ago, Someguy3071 said:

I just don't understand why an operator would drop people off into a live lane. If I was a passenger I certainly wouldn't get off the bus that way. 

Well, it was a streetcar replacement shuttle, so getting on and off across a live lane, isn't unusual. But it was odd for a shuttle bus ... but there was nothing coming.

I think the main answer, is he didn't know know the area well. But as I'd asked if he was stopping at the next stop (just before where the buses usually turned), and he'd quoted the rules, that this was the last stop, and he wasn't allowed to stop at the next stop, I was a bit mischievous about delaying exiting and asking about the safety of getting off in the middle of the road .... :)

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