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Green Line LRT

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2 hours ago, lucx said:

Renderings of Eau Claire, bridge and Centre Street N are available on the Engage site and presumably the open houses.

https://engage.calgary.ca/greenline

Considering Eau Claire Market right next door, with tons of multicultural businesses along with Chinatown, I'm surprised the station design isn't a little more distinct. 

Also, I really hope they dont clone the Esplanade Riel across the Bow River... that would a) be a ripoff of Winnipegs bridge, and b) destroy Calgarys skyline. 😛

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19 minutes ago, armorand said:

Considering Eau Claire Market right next door, with tons of multicultural businesses along with Chinatown, I'm surprised the station design isn't a little more distinct. 

Also, I really hope they dont clone the Esplanade Riel across the Bow River... that would a) be a ripoff of Winnipegs bridge, and b) destroy Calgarys skyline. 😛

The renderings are purposely generic. They've made no effort on the station design and architecture and won't until feedback is collected.

There's a lot of discourse online about destroying Prince's Island, destroying Centre Street, culturally segregatting Chinatown, etc. There's no way to camouflage the bridge. You might as well embrace it's prominence and make it beautiful like the many other clones of the Esplanade bridge than try to pretend it's not there.

However I'm iffy about Centre Street. I don't see it as a net positive for the community without going to 64 Ave. If there's no community suport I don't see how they can proceed.

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2 hours ago, lucx said:

The renderings are purposely generic. They've made no effort on the station design and architecture and won't until feedback is collected.

There's a lot of discourse online about destroying Prince's Island, destroying Centre Street, culturally segregatting Chinatown, etc. There's no way to camouflage the bridge. You might as well embrace it's prominence and make it beautiful like the many other clones of the Esplanade bridge than try to pretend it's not there.

However I'm iffy about Centre Street. I don't see it as a net positive for the community without going to 64 Ave. If there's no community suport I don't see how they can proceed.

Segregation? If anything, an LRT station right beside it, will dramatically boost foot traffic, and shoppers, and clients, for dozens of businesses. They would reap tons of benefits. Same for Eau Claire - last time I was in the mall, it was a ghost town haha. So south of the river, I'd have to disagree. The existing businesses post-oil price crash... they need all of the extra foot traffic and revenue that they can get. Example: Dragon City Mall. I just don't see how it would segregate the community. Especially if its surface LRT.

The park though... I'd tend to agree, it should be done right and with as little park uprooting as possible. 

Centre St... yeah i agree too, surface LRT around 16th might become a traffic nightmare. Expanding though... there was a CBC article the other day, with a councillor proposing BRT instead, in exchange for cutting the LRT off at Eau Claire. Maybe a full BRT line would acheive, what the Green Line wouldn't acheive (going all the way north), for fraction of the cost, much much sooner? I can try & find it again, and edit this post with a link, when I'm not on my phone. (edit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/city-council-green-line-gondek-1.5480915 ).

Also, I can agree with the bridge, but honestly it just looks like a ripoff of Winnipegs lol. And the existing Peace Bridge already took out another option too... so maybe alternative designs that aren't so... cookie cutter/copy & paste, might be better for the LRT bridge? Or very least, "dress" the bridge in tons of bright LED's & artwork? Granted Winnipeg's has a restaurant in the middle of the bridge... but it should be a little more original & unique, to seperate it from the other downtown bridges, yet not completely ruining the almost-majestic Calgary skyline?

 

5190126688_c65e859c92_o.jpg

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Some tid-bits from today's open house:

  • There's no plans on how to cross 16 Ave. That's for future planners to decide.
  • 2nd Ave station will need land from Eau Claire Mall. The houses north of the mall will probably be expropriated.
  • They are considering having Centre Street BRT share lanes and stations with LRT. If a bus breaks down on the track, the train can single track around it.
  • If feedback shows there isn't community support for surface LRT on Centre St, it will be up to council to decide what to do, ie proceed anyways or stop the line downtown.
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1 minute ago, lucx said:

They are considering having Centre Street BRT share lanes and stations with LRT. If a bus breaks down on the track, the train can single track around it.

Lol! Like on 7th ave??? Bahahaha

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The original idea of having the train go to 16th Avenue was so the expensive bit could be done in one shot - that is, a fully bored tunnel from 16th through to the edge of the beltline.

If they're having to run it on the surface of Centre Street, to keep it on the cheap, I propose we end it at Eau Claire and use the money from not bridging now and send it further south.  It's OBVIOUS the South won the Green Line, don't slap the north with a small itty-bitty useless segment as a consolation.  When the City gets more money, build the Green Line north in a really meaningful manner.

Pity though.  To have the Green Line go from the Beltline to the north end of the city would've saved the city huge in operating dollars from all the buses that run on Centre Street.  The ridership on day one on the north end would've made it a massive success.  But alas, they couldn't figure out the fact the Aurora Business Park would've been a great location for the LRV garage...

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This might be a dumb question, but are there any concerns over the interaction of snow and the low-clearance vehicles and platforms? I'm under the (possibly erroneous/overstated) impression that the current high area under the platforms allows trains to push the snow into that cavity, whereas that won't be available on the Green Line - will the snow just get shoved up onto the platforms themselves, requiring frequent manual plowing? Note I'm not concerned about snow piles impeding the trains themselves.

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38 minutes ago, TimmyC62 said:

This might be a dumb question, but are there any concerns over the interaction of snow and the low-clearance vehicles and platforms? I'm under the (possibly erroneous/overstated) impression that the current high area under the platforms allows trains to push the snow into that cavity, whereas that won't be available on the Green Line - will the snow just get shoved up onto the platforms themselves, requiring frequent manual plowing? Note I'm not concerned about snow piles impeding the trains themselves.

It may be a bit of an issue if trains don't run frequently and snow builds up, but there's a good example of low floor trains running in snowy conditions in Minneapolis/St. Paul.  They actually designed a bit of a mini-plow shape on the front of the trains to help deflect snow.

Harlow_1516969885_greenline2.JPG

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Today’s Greenline presentation revealed that tunneling under Centre St to 16 Ave is estimated at $250-$300 million. This sounds like back-of-a-napkin math as they admitted it wasn’t a detailed estimate. Anecdotal support from Crescent Heights is 50/50 support for surface LRT and I’d imagine it’s quite less city-wide. Michael Thompson, the Greeline head, previously stated an option to not proceed if there isn’t community support. Can Councillors justify building this section with tepid community support? Is it reasonable to delay this section until funding becomes available to go underground?

They didn’t explicitly answer my question if they had a contingency plan if funding is delayed. The response was the federal and provincial partners remain committed to the project. It tells me there is no contingency plan and all the eggs are in stimulus spending. 🤷‍♂️

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5 hours ago, lucx said:

Today’s Greenline presentation revealed that tunneling under Centre St to 16 Ave is estimated at $250-$300 million. This sounds like back-of-a-napkin math as they admitted it wasn’t a detailed estimate. Anecdotal support from Crescent Heights is 50/50 support for surface LRT and I’d imagine it’s quite less city-wide. Michael Thompson, the Greeline head, previously stated an option to not proceed if there isn’t community support. Can Councillors justify building this section with tepid community support? Is it reasonable to delay this section until funding becomes available to go underground?

Well if it gets delayed, theres tons more that could get built in the South... to McKenzie Towne at the very least, on $250m to $300m, is very much a possibilty. Would also make for way better transfers than the 130 Avenue terminus lol. 

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I received a reply from Councillor Farrell’s staff. She wants Centre Street to be a community street and favors less car traffic. She supports surface LRT in Crescent Heights and I have a feeling the City considers 50% community support a win.

One interesting thing form the presentation was a diagram that showed Eau Clair station at a 3% grade underground. Edmonton’s LRT guidelines state a maximum station gradient of 1%. What’s the grade at Barlow station?

Clipboard 1.jpg

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10 hours ago, lucx said:

I received a reply from Councillor Farrell’s staff. She wants Centre Street to be a community street and favors less car traffic. She supports surface LRT in Crescent Heights and I have a feeling the City considers 50% community support a win.

One interesting thing form the presentation was a diagram that showed Eau Clair station at a 3% grade underground. Edmonton’s LRT guidelines state a maximum station gradient of 1%. What’s the grade at Barlow station?

Clipboard 1.jpg

3 degree gradient... i wonder if i could roll a coin across the platform, start to finish 🤔

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On 5/21/2020 at 2:51 PM, lucx said:

I received a reply from Councillor Farrell’s staff. She wants Centre Street to be a community street and favors less car traffic. She supports surface LRT in Crescent Heights and I have a feeling the City considers 50% community support a win.

One interesting thing form the presentation was a diagram that showed Eau Clair station at a 3% grade underground. Edmonton’s LRT guidelines state a maximum station gradient of 1%. What’s the grade at Barlow station?

Clipboard 1.jpg

Barlow/Max Bell I'm pretty sure is well above 1%, but unfortunately the resolution of the measurements from Google Earth Pro are pretty crude when it comes to the height.  At the east end of the station, it reads 1074m, at the west end it reads 1073m.  Since a meter is a pretty large measurement, heightwise, for a 100ish meter long platform, it's quite possible that the station is on a 2% gradient, but it seems steeper than that to me.

Jon

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Used phone's GPS altitude, numbers aren't ASL but can still use the difference

West end @ 1048.49m , east end @ 1049.94m so ~1.4% grade

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5 hours ago, downbeat said:

Stage 1 of the Green Line has (finally!) been approved.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/green-line-vote-1.5615066

Only thing remaining to see: how fast will we see construction... out of personal interest too, because as a welder, I kind of need a better paying job than fast food. And I'd imagine that the 20km of LRT isn't going to be held together by popsicle sticks... 😛

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5 hours ago, armorand said:

Only thing remaining to see: how fast will we see construction... out of personal interest too, because as a welder, I kind of need a better paying job than fast food. And I'd imagine that the 20km of LRT isn't going to be held together by popsicle sticks... 😛

Next year, most likely

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Quicker if the provincial government didn't feel like it had to second-guess all the second-guesses that the city's already done so far: 

 

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18 minutes ago, armorand said:

his worship...?

"Worship" is a formal title used for mayors. If you ever attend/watch a Calgary city council meeting, you'll hear the mayor being called "your worship" when he is spoken to by councillors and clerks, sort of like the way judges are called your honour/my lord/my lady/etc. (depending on the context).

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8 hours ago, downbeat said:

"Worship" is a formal title used for mayors. If you ever attend/watch a Calgary city council meeting, you'll hear the mayor being called "your worship" when he is spoken to by councillors and clerks, sort of like the way judges are called your honour/my lord/my lady/etc. (depending on the context).

I know - just kind of amazed that in 2020, we're still calling people worships, lords and barons...

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6 hours ago, armorand said:

I know - just kind of amazed that in 2020, we're still calling people worships, lords and barons...

Ah, I understand. Sorry for misreading the intent of your message!

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Ric McIver's June 18 statement:

Quote

We're consistent in saying that we've put money through legislation aside to build the Green Line ... that's always been contingent upon the city building essentially what they promised to build when the money was promised

https://twitter.com/RicMcIver/status/1273779752583618560

The NDP government pledged $1.5 billion for Shepard to 16 Ave. The UCP can't use the excuse the money was meant for the full 46 km. They're going to fund it. They just need time to find the money.

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1 hour ago, lucx said:

Ric McIver's June 18 statement:

https://twitter.com/RicMcIver/status/1273779752583618560

The NDP government pledged $1.5 billion for Shepard to 16 Ave. The UCP can't use the excuse the money was meant for the full 46 km. They're going to fund it. They just need time to find the money.

Maybe thats whats behind the talks of reintroducing PST... where else would the money come in for pipelines, Calgary/Edmonton LRT expansions and AHS - without scaring everybody to move out of province with any higher income taxes, Manitoba-level healthcare & carbon fees?

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