TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion

[JWC]

4001 is in the back of Russell Yard with its pole down. Maybe this one is to be kept or sent Halton Railway Museum. 4030 is in front of it pole down as well.

[CLRV4094]

34 minutes ago, JWC said:

4001 is in the back of Russell Yard with its pole down. Maybe this one is to be kept or sent Halton Railway Museum. 4030 is in front of it pole down as well.

Both of those cars have particpated in Beaches Easter Parades. 4001 as far as I know will likely be preserved 

[PCC Guy]

4051 pushed 4011 into the workshop this evening. I didn't see 4011 missing any parts, but the fact that it couldn't move under its own power is concerning.

 

4002 is back at Russell, parked on one of the dead tracks behind 4079. Perhaps one of the last times she will be together with sisters 4001 and 4003 before they feast on her bones.. err, parts.

[John Oke]

3 hours ago, JWC said:

4001 is in the back of Russell Yard with its pole down. Maybe this one is to be kept or sent Halton Railway Museum. 4030 is in front of it pole down as well.

Or it could be going to San Francisco 

[PCC Guy]

Why San Francisco? Has MUNI expressed any interest in any of our CLRVs?

I know that they have a big historical collection over there, but the majority of those cars were PCCs, which San Francisco had previous experience with. Doesn't mean they'll be interested in picking up every derelict tram fleet on the continent.

Anecdotally, I've heard that they were not terribly pleased with the third hand A14 cars they acquired in the 1970s, and have no interest in further ex-TTC equipment as a result. However, I did not hear that from Adam, so it's possible that that's foamer rumour and innuendo.

[CLRV4002]

https://beta.cp24.com/news/2019/10/8/1_4629942.html

Someone got hit getting off a streetcar near Bay and College today. I saw it on the news and didn’t need to look for a number since the paint job gave it away. She was getting off 4178 on its first day on the 506. 

[John Oke]

35 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

, I did not hear that from Adam, so it's possible that that's foamer rumour and innuendo.

HR told me this on the ALRV farwell trip.

[PCC Guy]

No offence, but I don't exactly think that TTC HR is a prime source for things going on fleet wise, as that's not their area of focus. People much closer to the operational side of things have made various claims about individual series of Orion VIIs retiring, and, going further back, about the H5s being moved down to the BD line in 2010ish to replace the H4s.

I acknowledge that there's the possibility of some heritage operation somewhere picking up a CLRV (like a trolley museum), but I don't know why it would be San Francisco. All of the cars they picked up second hand so many years ago weren't actually a departure from what they had known from the decades before, and after 70 odd years of a tradition I would hope they have built up a significant parts supply and pool of knowledgeable workers. Acquiring CLRVs would require them to train personnel and create a parts inventory for a whole new group of cars, and one that would presumably be much smaller than their PCC collection. And to what end? Are the CLRVs anywhere close to being as much of a tourist attraction as a group of PCCs, all painted up to represent the liveries of various operators, are? Would they pay for themselves and justify the expense? I don't have the answer to these questions, but I'm skeptical.

[CLRV4094]

4195 derailed at Spadina and King eariler causing delays. 

[Robert Lubinski]

8 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

No offence, but I don't exactly think that TTC HR is a prime source for things going on fleet wise, as that's not their area of focus. People much closer to the operational side of things have made various claims about individual series of Orion VIIs retiring, and, going further back, about the H5s being moved down to the BD line in 2010ish to replace the H4s.

I acknowledge that there's the possibility of some heritage operation somewhere picking up a CLRV (like a trolley museum), but I don't know why it would be San Francisco. All of the cars they picked up second hand so many years ago weren't actually a departure from what they had known from the decades before, and after 70 odd years of a tradition I would hope they have built up a significant parts supply and pool of knowledgeable workers. Acquiring CLRVs would require them to train personnel and create a parts inventory for a whole new group of cars, and one that would presumably be much smaller than their PCC collection. And to what end? Are the CLRVs anywhere close to being as much of a tourist attraction as a group of PCCs, all painted up to represent the liveries of various operators, are? Would they pay for themselves and justify the expense? I don't have the answer to these questions, but I'm skeptical.

They didn't want to keep a hometown Boeing car so I don't think they'd want a CLRV of similar vintage. Apparently the focus is on pre-1954 cars for the historic fleet.

[CLRV4002]

All 6 remaining ALRVs at Russell are tracking again. 

[dowlingm]

19 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

https://beta.cp24.com/news/2019/10/8/1_4629942.html

Someone got hit getting off a streetcar near Bay and College today. I saw it on the news and didn’t need to look for a number since the paint job gave it away. She was getting off 4178 on its first day on the 506. 

Suburban councillors will claim 4178's paint job amounts to disruptive pattern material and so drivers can't see the car somehow.

[splendidwizardplayer]

47 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

Suburban councillors will claim 4178's paint job amounts to disruptive pattern material and so drivers can't see the car somehow.

I the middle of the night it makes sense because the back is black but in the middle of the day that makes no sense drivers can't see the big black thing in the middle of street, that makes no sense

[CLRV4002]

52 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

Suburban councillors will claim 4178's paint job amounts to disruptive pattern material and so drivers can't see the car somehow.

I often wonder how it works when the PCC cars go out on occasion in service, like last September on Queen. Considering a huge number of drivers probably didn’t live here, didn’t drive yet or weren’t even alive when the PCC cars were still in regular service, do they even know it’s a streetcar?

I’m not sure if most people can even tell considering so many people drive past open doors on regular streetcars that have been on the road for 40 years, let alone vehicles that they’ve never seen before. 

[2044]

58 minutes ago, splendidwizardplayer said:

I the middle of the night it makes sense because the back is black but in the middle of the day that makes no sense drivers can't see the big black thing in the middle of street, that makes no sense

Doesn’t make sense any time of day. You don’t notice the various lights, reflectors and huge moving mass with windows lit up? You are a terrible driver.

[Doppelkupplung]

That in addition to the fact that this isn’t the first time streetcars have had darker shades of adwraps. It’s a friggin train running down the middle of the street. 

[Ed T.]

1 hour ago, CLRV4002 said:

I often wonder how it works when the PCC cars go out on occasion in service, like last September on Queen. Considering a huge number of drivers probably didn’t live here, didn’t drive yet or weren’t even alive when the PCC cars were still in regular service, do they even know it’s a streetcar?

I’m not sure if most people can even tell considering so many people drive past open doors on regular streetcars that have been on the road for 40 years, let alone vehicles that they’ve never seen before. 

Would-be riders waiting for a streetcar try to board PCCs or even Witts that pause at a regular stop while on charter. Obviously transit riders can recognize a streetcar when they see one. Can we assume car drivers are as knowledgeable?

[leylandvictory2]

1 hour ago, splendidwizardplayer said:

I the middle of the night it makes sense because the back is black but in the middle of the day that makes no sense drivers can't see the big black thing in the middle of street, that makes no sense

based on your logic, people shouldn't park their vehicles on the street especially darker vehicles.  I guess some people don't use headlights at night.

[Wayside Observer]

4048 was on Bathurst this morning.  I think I saw 4094 as well but am not 100% sure on the fleet number.  And three, not one, not two, three vehicles in a row illegally making right turns on red against the sign prohibiting that at the bottom of Fort York Blvd. on to Lakeshore which is one example why it’s difficult to read off fleet numbers when having to contend with some of the other drivers out there.

[CLRV4094]

16 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

I often wonder how it works when the PCC cars go out on occasion in service, like last September on Queen. Considering a huge number of drivers probably didn’t live here, didn’t drive yet or weren’t even alive when the PCC cars were still in regular service, do they even know it’s a streetcar?

I’m not sure if most people can even tell considering so many people drive past open doors on regular streetcars that have been on the road for 40 years, let alone vehicles that they’ve never seen before. 

The PCC cars have such a nostalgia appeal that I feel and would suspect that most people would recognize and be able to confirm it's existence as a streetcar. 

16 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

I often wonder how it works when the PCC cars go out on occasion in service, like last September on Queen. Considering a huge number of drivers probably didn’t live here, didn’t drive yet or weren’t even alive when the PCC cars were still in regular service, do they even know it’s a streetcar?

I’m not sure if most people can even tell considering so many people drive past open doors on regular streetcars that have been on the road for 40 years, let alone vehicles that they’ve never seen before. 

The PCC cars have such a nostalgia appeal that I feel and would suspect that most people would recognize and be able to confirm it's existence as a streetcar. 

[leylandvictory2]

22 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

4048 was on Bathurst this morning.  I think I saw 4094 as well but am not 100% sure on the fleet number.  And three, not one, not two, three vehicles in a row illegally making right turns on red against the sign prohibiting that at the bottom of Fort York Blvd. on to Lakeshore which is one example why it’s difficult to read off fleet numbers when having to contend with some of the other drivers out there.

if you have internet on your cell phone, you can use transee to figure out the fleet number.  That's what I use when I see a streetcar with a wrap from a far distance.  

[HB_1024]

50 minutes ago, leylandvictory2 said:

if you have internet on your cell phone, you can use transee to figure out the fleet number.

Not while you're driving.

[dowlingm]

On 10/9/2019 at 3:40 PM, splendidwizardplayer said:

I the middle of the night it makes sense because the back is black but in the middle of the day that makes no sense drivers can't see the big black thing in the middle of street, that makes no sense

It was sarcasm my dude. But given the statements some of these guys make, you think it has to make sense to those guys who can’t stand spend on streetcars? (Or public art for that matter)

[CLRV4002]

14 minutes ago, dowlingm said:

It was sarcasm my dude. But given the statements some of these guys make, you think it has to make sense to those guys who can’t stand spend on streetcars? (Or public art for that matter)

*cough Rick Leary *cough 

Speaking of, does anyone know if they plan to run 4178 as part of the CLRV trippers on Carlton or will they continue to have it in regular service? 

[FabianColeyLOVESBUSES]

I think its safe to say that 4011 is  retired. It was most likely pushed inside the shop at Russell for decommissioning on Tuesday.