TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion

[Shaun]

5 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

This was true of multiple unit PCCs for the same reason.  The location of the overhead contacts for the old NA system was different for two car trains which is why you don't see pictures of MU charters all over the city* because the mess a two car train would have when the pole on the first car hits the contact to throw the switch back while the second car's still over it.  This only got resolved with the current NA system that was brought in because of the ALRVs.  The TTC's couple up procedure actually allows for arbitrary length trains now by cutting out the rear antenna on the first car, front antenna on the last car (for 3 or more cars, both antennas would have to be killed on the ones in the middle) so that when the leading edge of the first car passes over the coil in the street, it either sends the signal for normal or the signal to throw and the switch locks in the requested position and stays there the whole time the consist is going past until the trailing edge of the last car with the live rear antenna passes over the second antenna to revert and unlock the switch.

I don't know if any are online but there are pictures of a three car MU PCC with a TTC A7 leading, a Louisville in the middle, and a Cleveland bringing up the rear that was smacked together and driven around one of the divisions, I think Danforth but could be mistaken.  Not sure if you've seen that but it's believed to be the only time a three car MU PCC was done in Toronto.

* This problem was surmountable by doing a two, three whatever length MU PCC charter by running the cars as single units and then banging them together for posed photo stops and for limited running in sections where you have stretches of track that don't have NA switches present before splitting the train up again to pass over non-MU NA switches as the individual single units.  As bad as Toronto is for not thinking outside the box these days, I can only imagine how awful it must've been back when the equipment for such a charter was still available, when the place was a total official snore-fest.  No wonder nobody attempted to do such a thing.  I can hear the "You can't do that!" with the eyes bulging and veins pulsing now...

You would think that with the technology available today there would be a better way to do this. 

[T3G]

4 minutes ago, Shaun said:

You would think that with the technology available today there would be a better way to do this. 

Who said anything about today?

There are more modern technologies in existence to deal with tram junctions than what we have today, but the problem described above was sorted out 35 years ago.

[Bus_Medic]

Fun fact: the same NA antenna is also used on the bus fleet for left turn priority.

[Shaun]

15 hours ago, T3G said:

Who said anything about today?

There are more modern technologies in existence to deal with tram junctions than what we have today, but the problem described above was sorted out 35 years ago.

But we are still using that 35 year old technology....

[Wayside Observer]

20 hours ago, Shaun said:

You would think that with the technology available today there would be a better way to do this. 

There were better ways of doing things with the technology available back then.

[T3G]

4 hours ago, Shaun said:

But we are still using that 35 year old technology....

Yes, but your post was responding to one that described historical limitations, rather than problems that are faced with today.

[Tom1122]

I was at HCRR two days ago. In the parking lot was a set of CLRV trucks and a set of ALRV trucks. At least one of the CLRV trucks came off car #4197. Not sure what ALRV the trucks are from.

[Shaun]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:21 PM, Tom1122 said:

I was at HCRR two days ago. In the parking lot was a set of CLRV trucks and a set of ALRV trucks. At least one of the CLRV trucks came off car #4197. Not sure what ALRV the trucks are from.

Are they getting rebuilt?

[Tom1122]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:05 PM, Shaun said:

Are they getting rebuilt?

Don't think so; just for spares since HCRR is built to the TTC track gauge.

[Wayside Observer]

On 9/7/2022 at 4:21 PM, Tom1122 said:

I was at HCRR two days ago. In the parking lot was a set of CLRV trucks and a set of ALRV trucks. At least one of the CLRV trucks came off car #4197. Not sure what ALRV the trucks are from.

You made sure nobody was going to pickpocket your wallet while you were distracted looking at those trucks, right?

[Tom1122]

I learned that the American Mining Museum is actually building a line for the CLRVs to run on at their Ohio location. Perhaps the museum could build the line to TTC gauge since they don't have any other streetcars.

 

Also, someone was at Seashore and claimed to be someone for HCRR which is still holding onto their cars. This person claimed that they needed them to pick up their CLRVs right away resulting in a frantic call to HCRR who assured them they do not need Seashore to pick up their cars.

[Wayside Observer]

17 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

I learned that the American Mining Museum is actually building a line for the CLRVs to run on at their Ohio location. Perhaps the museum could build the line to TTC gauge since they don't have any other streetcars.

They could, but it would mean a regauge job on anything else they get in the future so the question they have to answer is:  Are any future acquisitions most likely to be TTC or standard gauge, and is it easier to regauge CLRVs or all potential future acquisitions?

 

17 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

Also, someone was at Seashore and claimed to be someone for HCRR which is still holding onto their cars. This person claimed that they needed them to pick up their CLRVs right away resulting in a frantic call to HCRR who assured them they do not need Seashore to pick up their cars.

Museum rumours can be pretty wild.  Someone actually showed up at Seashore in person and said words to the effect that they're from HCRR and needed them to remove their streetcars ASAP?  Seashore isn't exactly nearby.  At least a phone call sorted it out.  At least long distance isn't expensive anymore either.

[Tom1122]

I heard that the CLRVs will go to Seashore next spring.

[candormere]

What do you mean by seashore?

[Orion VI]

29 minutes ago, candormere said:

What do you mean by seashore?

He's referring to the Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine. They own some equipment that the HCRR is currently storing for them. 

This -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seashore_Trolley_Museum

[Tom1122]

I heard at HCRR today that when they got CLRV 4039, it was intended as a parts car. However the car has proven to be the best running CLRV. Mind you, they also acquired 4040 and 4053 for parts. 

[Wayside Observer]

21 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

I heard at HCRR today that when they got CLRV 4039, it was intended as a parts car. However the car has proven to be the best running CLRV. Mind you, they also acquired 4040 and 4053 for parts. 

I'd heard that through the grapevine a year or two ago, right before the pandemic started.

Certainly there's a lot of benefit to picking the best of the lot when you have more than one example of something to be the primary machine.  Why work harder to try and whip another one into shape when you've already got one that is?  I had a practical, real life example a week ago.  There's this cluster of three very tempermental machines at work and the #2 unit has been running in service for months.  Someone told me I need to put everything #1 and I had to explain reality to the guy.  All three machines are capable of running in service.  They are extremely tempermental.  Moving from #2 to #1 when there is no need to is all risk and no benefit so it's better to leave them as-is.  I pretty much said that's how it was going to be unless a compelling reason to do so emerged during maintenance and left it at that.

Anyways, HCRR could validate the conclusions about 4039 vs. the others and do some burn in testing to see if the expected trend emerges.  Well, since I've so very kindly donated the operational justification for doing an in-crowd runfest by saying that, the least you can do is get out your chequebook and donate some cash because the hydro bill's going to be going up.

[T3G]

It is a great shame that nearly everything else they've picked up seem to be real basket cases. 4178 would have been a great car to see run again but apparently she's a shop queen, and the less said about 4010 the better.

I haven't seen 4003 since 2019 but I assume, given that, there's probably not a lot to celebrate there, either.

I wonder if they'll be able to start up any of the cars they're still storing for the American museums if they finally make it down there. Anyone know what the hold up is?

[Tom1122]

13 hours ago, T3G said:

It is a great shame that nearly everything else they've picked up seem to be real basket cases. 4178 would have been a great car to see run again but apparently she's a shop queen, and the less said about 4010 the better.

I haven't seen 4003 since 2019 but I assume, given that, there's probably not a lot to celebrate there, either.

I wonder if they'll be able to start up any of the cars they're still storing for the American museums if they finally make it down there. Anyone know what the hold up is?

I heard 4003 is having an unusual problem: It can reverse fine, but has trouble moving forwards.

As for the American bound CLRVs, I've heard 4068 and 4133 will be heading to Seashore in spring. Don't know of 4024 and 4170.

[Wayside Observer]

20 hours ago, T3G said:

It is a great shame that nearly everything else they've picked up seem to be real basket cases. 4178 would have been a great car to see run again but apparently she's a shop queen, and the less said about 4010 the better.

I haven't seen 4003 since 2019 but I assume, given that, there's probably not a lot to celebrate there, either.

I wonder if they'll be able to start up any of the cars they're still storing for the American museums if they finally make it down there. Anyone know what the hold up is?

Don't forget the ALRV.  It was tested and then parked.  The reasoning that I heard was that they were afraid the CLRVs would be such a maintenance headache of their own that nobody wanted to try to keep the ALRV running.  This is a shame since the ALRV was delivered as a running car.

6 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

I heard 4003 is having an unusual problem: It can reverse fine, but has trouble moving forwards.

Is this showing up as a mechanical problem or an electrical problem?

[PrimeTio]

I’m able to confirm that 2 CLRVs are up in brampton being used for an unknown organization. I’ve seen a photo of the first and the doors have been stripped. The body of the CLRV remains intact.

[Tom1122]

18 hours ago, PrimeTio said:

I’m able to confirm that 2 CLRVs are up in brampton being used for an unknown organization. I’ve seen a photo of the first and the doors have been stripped. The body of the CLRV remains intact.

Where in Brampton are they?

[PrimeTio]

Won’t be giving the location to avoid another TTC 7423. Those 2 CLRVs are in good condition, I’m not sure what they will do with them.

[Shaun]

4 hours ago, PrimeTio said:

Won’t be giving the location to avoid another TTC 7423. Those 2 CLRVs are in good condition, I’m not sure what they will do with them.

Making a Toronto movie?

[candormere]

19 hours ago, PrimeTio said:

Won’t be giving the location to avoid another TTC 7423. Those 2 CLRVs are in good condition, I’m not sure what they will do with them.

Any idea of their numbers?