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TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion


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19 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

Did the TTC ever run the CLRVs in service on PCC trucks? 

No.  For many reasons.

Just curious, what prompted this question?

Did someone start up the nonsense going around Philadelphia about 10 years ago about taking CLRVs and SEPTA Kawasaki cars and stripping the existing equipment and putting PCC gear on them so trolley museums can maintain them, again?

 

3 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

I think the immense weight of a CLRV would make that a non starter.

 

....and the whole cam vs chopper control, 2 vs. 4 motor issue.

Let's keep the list going:

-  The bottom of the CLRV would be practically scraping along the road surface with the reduced height of the PCC trucks and smaller wheel diameter.

-  Adding to the two vs four motor issue, the PCC motors are series machines but the CLRV's are separately excited so the field coil winding requirements and connections are totally different.

-  If we're talking all electric PCC trucks, how do you accommodate CLRV friction air brakes and electric drum brakes on the PCC trucks?

-  If we're talking air PCC trucks, you've got a nice plumbing job ahead of you to interface the two types of brakes.

Interestingly, cam vs. chopper isn't that big of an issue.  The original SETPA PCC-II RFP was to get a chopper package to drive the existing PCC motors on those cars but Brookville proposed the Vossloh Keipie motors + package as a complete turnkey replacement.  From what I understand, the El Paso PCCs got a DC to DC chopper though, and SEPTA did get Keipie to build a chopper package for the Broad Street B-IV cars to replace the GE camshaft controller that GE dropped support for after 10 years but keeping the original GE traction motors on those cars.

Edited to add:  Tom1122:  the TTC would have had ZERO reason to attempt running the CLRVs on PCC trucks even without the laundry list of problems getting in the way since the CLRVs were already running on CLRV trucks on the Orbe-Chavornay railway in Switzerland before even arriving in Toronto!

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Uh, yeah. ^what he said.🤔

I’ll stick to fixing the stinky bus end of things, whatfor making the noise from the dinosaur squeezins.

I probably would have gone into rail, too. Had the geezers at Halton not drove me off 25 years ago. Oh well, coach tech’s more transferable anyway.

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On 5/4/2021 at 5:07 PM, Bus_Medic said:

I’ll stick to fixing the stinky bus end of things, whatfor making the noise from the dinosaur squeezins.

I probably would have gone into rail, too. Had the geezers at Halton not drove me off 25 years ago. Oh well, coach tech’s more transferable anyway.

You gotta have dinosaur juice.  Someone once told me the bus and coach people at TTC were paid more than the rail counterparts because it's the more transferable skill set so you might be financially better off for it too if the part about the pay difference is true.

GEEZERS at HCRR, holy crow, it's been ingrained in the corporate culture there for so long it's been handed down the generations.  Funny story time.  So I decided to stick my neck out a bit a few years ago after a pretty serious troubleshooting session on one of the cars south of the border I've helped out with the maintenance and repair on over the years because hey, I do meet the eligibility requirements for the trolley museum winterfest and signed up for it for the first time in a decade.  No problem there, shoot the breeze with someone online before going, and everything's fine so far but I have a plan B to bail out if things get ugly.  Anyways, I roll into the parking lot of the museum that's doing the event just as one of the streetcars is arriving and for crying out loud, it's being piloted by the same HCRR jerk that reamed not only me but one of my best friends for showing up at the previous one I went to.  I'm looking out the windshield thinking about it but I decided that I'd already paid my money and driven all this way, I'm not invoking plan B before I even get out of the car.  Luckily, when I wandered into the train shed, I bumped into a couple of people I knew right away which was great, safety in numbers and all that.

The rest of the weekend was great, I had a great time, even if I did feel like I was walking on eggshells a bit from it being my first time out to one of these in many years.  Near the end of the weekend, a bunch of us were on one of the last cars of the day figuring out who'd done a trip in which direction on the line with the idea of setting up the last few runs so that people could do a trip in the opposite direction to what they'd done before, so they could operate a full round trip before things finished up.  This one guy in the huddle says he's already operated four trips.  So he was getting ready to do number five meanwhile everyone else in the group had only done one. I think he read the room on that because he shuffled off to the back of the car pretty quickly but I got a look at his nametag.  Museum affiliation?  HCRR.  Sheesh.  Of course.

Anyways, after that all finished up, I was shooting the breeze with someone I hadn't seen in a very, very long time by the entrance to the gift shop when someone walked in the door, looked around, and asked, "Is there anyone here from Ontario?"  I said yes and groaned inwardly because the next question's got to be, "Are you from Halton?" and I'm starting to think about how to explain that when he says, "I think I just hit your car in the parking lot."  Oh.  Ok, that's not what I was expecting.  We go outside and this poor guy's totally beside himself because it turns out he had hit my truck and dragged the side of his rental car down the corner of one of the bumpers.  The car had a long dent down much of the side of it where it scraped against the corner of the bumper but the bumper wasn't damaged, just scuffed up a bit.  I told the guy not to worry about scuffing it up, it's trivial compared to the damage to the rental car which got off much worse, don't worry about my truck.  I hope the poor guy had the car rental company's insurance on it so he could drop it off and walk away from it after the weekend with as little a headache about it as possible.  But there I was, the friends who were there with me when this happened still laugh at this, going oh crap how do I explain this expecting the HCRR question, when it was just to find out whose vehicle got banged up in the parking lot.

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The rail vehicle analyzers recently got bumped up to wage group 12, same as the coach techs, about the time the Flexities arrived. As it is, the way my sector is hybridizng and electrifying, less and less separates the two skill sets.

Total gap before was only about 2$ an hour.

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11 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

The rail vehicle analyzers recently got bumped up to wage group 12, same as the coach techs, about the time the Flexities arrived. As it is, the way my sector is hybridizng and electrifying, less and less separates the two skill sets.

Total gap before was onlmight have prompted the TTC to change the gap is those

It is interesting how the two skill sets have slowly been converging in some ways over time.  The Flexities arriving might have also nudged the TTC to close the pay gap as well because all of a sudden, those are a transferable skill.  K-W.  Whoever does the maintenance on the Eglinton fleet.  Finch West or Mississauga, whichever doesn't end up with the Alstom cars, possibly Hamilton depending on how the dust settles there, if the dust ever settles there.  More generally, rapid transit vehicle skills are transferable to any of the LRT projects in the province so it made sense for the TTC to close the pay gap.  That ~$2 per hour on a 40 hour week, even after taxes, does help put a dent in those people's grocery bills which is good.

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  • 2 weeks later...

1877258938_CLRV4151LansdowneLoopwithoperator.thumb.jpg.4974e12113f2cf52a9202c6d9a8198f6.jpg

While I was scanning black and white film, I dug around a bit in the colour medium format picture folder looking for this one of 4151.  It's one of those pictures that's stuck with me ever since I took it.  It was a late summer or early fall day that I walked the west end of St. Clair with my Bronica SQ-A taking CLRV pictures because the new streetcar order had been placed recently which meant the start of the long countdown was on.  I've always liked this candid of the operator and her machine both taking a break in Lansdowne loop.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/18/2021 at 4:00 PM, 7749 said:

Saw this today, did 4089 have a wrap before it retired?

20210618_151430.thumb.jpg.796977e4de9b8549d7e5079b729402fc.jpg

The wrap fooled me when I saw it, thought it was getting stripped for refurb or retrofitted track cleaner.

On 4/1/2021 at 11:11 PM, MRD10 said:

On the right corner features a paint-stripped CLRV. Either this is 4089 undergoing some sort of restoration, or we'll soon be seeing the other 2 running around in a yellow livery like their PPC Rail-grinder predecessors several year's ago.

image0-4.jpg

 

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  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, drum118 said:

4207 nose is sticking out of Roncesvalles carhouse with X behind it on track 18?.

The historic cars are at Roncesvalles in preparation for the 100th anniversary. There will be a media event with a number of TTC vehicles. However, it will not be a public event and they plan to limit attendance which is hugely disappointing. Myself and others had hoped with such a high vaccination rate and many restrictions eased that there could be something more for the 100th anniversary. However, the TTC does say they hope to hold a larger celebration for employees and customers in 2022.

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On 8/21/2021 at 2:02 PM, 2044 said:

The historic cars are at Roncesvalles in preparation for the 100th anniversary. There will be a media event with a number of TTC vehicles. However, it will not be a public event and they plan to limit attendance which is hugely disappointing. Myself and others had hoped with such a high vaccination rate and many restrictions eased that there could be something more for the 100th anniversary. However, the TTC does say they hope to hold a larger celebration for employees and customers in 2022.

That is disappointing.  It's even more disappointing that they scratch anything for the same public they've had no problem packing into overcrowded buses for the whole last 18 months of pandemic, but then all of the mandates since March, 2020 have been very selective about what is and is not safe and unsafe and restricted.  I guess the TTC's 100th anniversary is going to be another round of stay home and watch the higher ups, the politicians, the well connected enjoy themselves on TV.

I hope the TTC does something in 2022, but even if it's safe(er) to do so, do you think they're likely to follow through and do it or let it quietly slip through the cracks over the next year?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I remember in 2005, the TTC had a few CLRV wrapped in a promotion for a mobile phone company where the red on the CLRV livery was changed to a different colour. Does anyone remember how many cars were used or their numbers. I know for certain there was a blue CLRV and  I believe a green  CLRV.

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40 minutes ago, CLRV4002 said:

Beaches Easter Parade is on this year for the first time since 2019, does anyone know if they're bringing out the old streetcars like they used to? 

My understanding is that the stretch of overhead on Queen where that will take place has been converted to pantograph only operation, so not very likely.

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8 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

My understanding is that the stretch of overhead on Queen where that will take place has been converted to pantograph only operation, so not very likely.

Hehe, they can take it up Kingston Road for the "Upper Beaches".

Or maybe they can tow it behind a Flexity. ;)

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There were several CLRVs which were retired due to "small wheels".

Would anyone be able to elaborate on this ailment? I am picturing that the wheel has worn away like a shoe with worn out soles, is this correct? 

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4 hours ago, T3G said:

There were several CLRVs which were retired due to "small wheels".

Would anyone be able to elaborate on this ailment? I am picturing that the wheel has worn away like a shoe with worn out soles, is this correct? 

I thought that they use the same wheels as the Hcars?

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5 hours ago, T3G said:

There were several CLRVs which were retired due to "small wheels".

Would anyone be able to elaborate on this ailment? I am picturing that the wheel has worn away like a shoe with worn out soles, is this correct? 

That’s correct. Due to the state of the vehicle’s condition, cars were being retired from service in that if other cars with more of a serviceable status would be prioritized for repairs and truck replacements. 

 

24 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I thought that they use the same wheels as the Hcars?

Subway track gauge is the same as streetcar. The wheels are not the same because the streetcar wheels on the truck had bolts all the way around whereas subway wheels do not

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