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TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion

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6 hours ago, christine said:

I was told there was considerable interest and pressure near the end of retirement so the TTC came to their senses. No idea how much truth there is in that. Also, these cars were the survivors - many of them they lasted to the last day of service so their condition, in theory, should be good enough to not automatically go to scrap.

I hope you're right about the interest, because currently there are no bidders. 

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2 hours ago, Streety McCarface said:

I hope you're right about the interest, because currently there are no bidders. 

I believe the interest was more for preservation and retention for heritage or supplemental service, but I do know there were some TTC employees who were interested, who've now been excluded by the terms of sale. I recall hearing there were some other organizations that were interested as well but I believe they were just making informal inquiries.

However, the listings have been up for less than 48 hours and theres a whole work week ahead for serious parties to figure out the logistics. Considering the costs and requirements tho I'd be surprised to see bids on more than a few cars.

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3 minutes ago, christine said:

I believe the interest was more for preservation and retention for heritage or supplemental service, but I do know there were some TTC employees who were interested, who've now been excluded by the terms of sale. I recall hearing there were some other organizations that were interested as well but I believe they were just making informal inquiries.

However, the listings have been up for less than 48 hours and theres a whole work week ahead for serious parties to figure out the logistics. Considering the costs and requirements tho I'd be surprised to see bids on more than a few cars.

On top of it, this is the worst time to do this; we're still in the middle of a pandemic. 

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Just now, Streety McCarface said:

On top of it, this is the worst time to do this; we're still in the middle of a pandemic. 

Thats a concern as well. The listing says pickup must be done within 10 business days but will Anderson even be available to take on the job? Will there be TTC staff available? And the fact that payment will have to be done by wire transfer, that usually requires visiting a bank and interacting with a teller.

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14 hours ago, christine said:

I'm guessing pretty hard. From what I understand IRM can do it (I think they use a press) but Seashore and the American Industrial Mining Museum (maybe) will be sending trucks from spare cars over there to get regauged as well.

UTDC designed the trucks to be regaugable without too much difficulty assuming you've got a rail truck shop at your disposal since they always intended to be able to sell them to more than one customer which meant non-TTC gauge work.  As it was, CLRV trucks were standard gauged for testing in Switzerland and for two and eventually third car that went to Boston for the demo there; standard gauge is definitely doable and was already done twice in the early days.

What I've always been curious about is how wide the CLRV trucks can be gauged.  Philadelphia and Pittsburgh would've been potential customers and they're both broader than TTC and regauge difficulty goes up insanely once you need to go past the limit of what the outboard frames can accommodate as-is, i.e. how wide can you go before that becomes a problem?

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23 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

 Philadelphia and Pittsburgh would've been potential customers and they're both broader than TTC and regauge difficulty goes up insanely once you need to go past the limit of what the outboard frames can accommodate as-is, i.e. how wide can you go before that becomes a problem?

Have welder, will travel.

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6 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Have welder, will travel.

Not to anywhere there’s a CLRV that needs to be regained, welder or not, not these days.

In all seriousness though, I really do wonder what range of gauge adjustment UTDC designed into the CLRV trucks to make them easily saleable to multiple customers before massive surgery on the frames and axles is required.  I’ve never seen any figures published for this.

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19 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

Not to anywhere there’s a CLRV that needs to be regained, welder or not, not these days.

In all seriousness though, I really do wonder what range of gauge adjustment UTDC designed into the CLRV trucks to make them easily saleable to multiple customers before massive surgery on the frames and axles is required.  I’ve never seen any figures published for this.

From what I can remember, the truck frames are fabricated from plate steel, not one or two piece forgings. A structural fab shop could handle it no problem.

F7AD3BCF-4424-440C-9CBE-AB7756551343.thumb.jpeg.34d9dfd12b82337eed8fb1b175aa20e3.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, Bus_Medic said:

From what I can remember, the truck frames are fabricated from plate steel, not one or two piece forgings. A structural fab shop could handle it no problem.

F7AD3BCF-4424-440C-9CBE-AB7756551343.thumb.jpeg.34d9dfd12b82337eed8fb1b175aa20e3.jpeg

That’s what my memory is too, that they’re welded built up trucks, not forged or cast.  Doing replacement axles to get more length for a wide gauge conversion isn’t a big deal for any shop that does truck work regularly either, eg. the place that 4603’s trucks are at now.

Same thing for PCC cars on my end.  Have tools. Can’t travel.

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A little OT but IIRC there was a low budget movie that had one scene were people push a CLRV (4066?) onto its side. Does anyone know the title of the movie?

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58 minutes ago, Tom1122 said:

A little OT but IIRC there was a low budget movie that had one scene were people push a CLRV (4066?) onto its side. Does anyone know the title of the movie?

Last Night from 1998

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Just over two hours to go on the CLRV auctions and two of the cars each have one bid on them.  The others have no bids yet.

I seriously think the TTC missed the market.  Last year when they were ruthlessly having them cut up immediately after arriving at the junkyard would've been the time to auction CLRVs off during the wind down when the interest was high.  Instead, waiting until half a year later after the CLRV retirement stopped being a thing until the middle of a frigging global pandemic which logistically complicates everything, it's a bit day late and dollar short.  Yeah, I think they missed the market.  We'll see what happens in the next two hours.

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2 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Just over two hours to go on the CLRV auctions and two of the cars each have one bid on them.  The others have no bids yet.

I seriously think the TTC missed the market.  Last year when they were ruthlessly having them cut up immediately after arriving at the junkyard would've been the time to auction CLRVs off during the wind down when the interest was high.  Instead, waiting until half a year later after the CLRV retirement stopped being a thing until the middle of a frigging global pandemic which logistically complicates everything, it's a bit day late and dollar short.  Yeah, I think they missed the market.  We'll see what happens in the next two hours.

I think you nailed it. Seven days is not enough time to make arrangements, figure out the logistics and get proper estimates before bidding, especially considering not everyone saw it on day 1. Then the entire thing needs to be executed within 10 business days. During a pandemic. Hell, the auction listings were never publicized or listed on the TTC's website and employees and retired employees, the people that would be the most interested, are not allowed to bid.

 

Edit: There are now bids on 5 cars in total. All the oldest ones - 4040, 4053, 4069, 4104, 4110. Impressive.

Edit #2: There was a last minute bid on 4187 as well.

Edited by christine
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1 hour ago, christine said:

I think you nailed it. Seven days is not enough time to make arrangements, figure out the logistics and get proper estimates before bidding, especially considering not everyone saw it on day 1. Then the entire thing needs to be executed within 10 business days. During a pandemic. Hell, the auction listings were never publicized or listed on the TTC's website and employees and retired employees, the people that would be the most interested, are not allowed to bid.

 

Edit: There are now bids on 5 cars in total. All the oldest ones - 4040, 4053, 4069, 4104, 4110. Impressive.

Edit #2: There was a last minute bid on 4187 as well.

I just searched the sold items and it looks like six of them sold.

Interesting thing number one, now I didn't dig into this exhaustively so I could be wrong, but it doesn't look like there's a way to search completed auctions, just sold articles, so it doesn't look like it's possible to see the CLRV listings that nobody bid on.

Interesting thing number two, it looks like two people bought five of the six streetcars that sold.  Going by the mostly redacted usernames a******g bought three of them and t*****4 bought two, and someone else bought the last one that sold.  Note:  I am of course making the assumption that there's no coincidence happening between multiple users having the same first and last characters and name length in their usernames with a different midsection that's getting blotted out by the redaction algorithm since that's probably a very long shot but would be a hell of a coincidence if that were the case.

Two things remain to be seen is if the purchase commitments go through.  They got all sold with one bid on each car so they buyers all got them at the starting bid.  By the time you factor in the buyer's premium, the tax, and getting them moved from TTC to wherever they're planning to have them go, that could get very expensive, very quickly - and that goes X2 and X3 for the people that apparently bought multiple cars.  Hopefully they go to good homes.  And the second thing that remains to be seen is what happens with the unsold ones; unfortunately, I suspect it's going to be the cutting for them.

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39 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

Interesting thing number one, now I didn't dig into this exhaustively so I could be wrong, but it doesn't look like there's a way to search completed auctions, just sold articles, so it doesn't look like it's possible to see the CLRV listings that nobody bid on.

4123, 4179, 4184, 4193.

39 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

 They got all sold with one bid on each car so they buyers all got them at the starting bid.  By the time you factor in the buyer's premium, the tax, and getting them moved from TTC to wherever they're planning to have them go, that could very expensive, very quickly - and that goes X2 and X3 for the people that apparently bought multiple cars.  Hopefully they go to good homes.  And the second thing that remains to be seen is what happens with the unsold ones; unfortunately, I suspect it's going to be the cutting for them.

Expenses (including the car) will be close, if not exceed $10,000 per car if you don't want to chop it up.

I'd like to say the remaining cars would be offered to employees, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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5 hours ago, Andythagiant said:

Looks like one of the CLRV’s are being picked up by Anderson Haulage today. It’s going to Halton according to the escort driver.

Assuming that Halton is just a stop on the way, or a makeshift storage facility for a bit, would this be the 6th CLRV to be on their property? (I'm counting the parts car in that)

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10 hours ago, Orion VI said:

Assuming that Halton is just a stop on the way, or a makeshift storage facility for a bit, would this be the 6th CLRV to be on their property? (I'm counting the parts car in that)

It's Halton's. One other car is as well.

Meanwhile back at Russell, 4051 was inside the carhouse with the door open and 4053 was a few tracks away by itself, almost like it's ready for pickup. The dead area still has a number of CLRVs including 44104, 4069, 4179, 4110, 4123, 4187, 4184 and 4048 and many, if not all of them have the TTC logo removed from the sides of the car. There were two more but I couldn't identify them. Someone shoved an umbrella into where 4069's headlight used to be.

Based upon the number of purchased cars still sitting on the property and the number of weekdays left, it is unlikely all sold cars will be removed by the 10 business day deadline.

 

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I have heard that 4040 is the car that left yesterday, as a source didn’t see it while they saw all the other parked out in various places in the yard. It also seems that based off of @christine’s sightings, that 4040 would be the car in question.

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