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PCC Guy

TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion

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On 12/30/2019 at 1:14 PM, smallspy said:

I don't think that you understand how the market for scale models works.

Somehow I forgot to mention those crazy foamers and how they'll set up their own TTC to keep the CLRVs alive because fuck everything else.

 

It was funnier in my head ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  but yeah I understand how they're not exactly the latest iPhones

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8 hours ago, Shaun said:

What was the logic behind using a chain to connect the axles of the CLRV together? It because only one of the trucks is powered?

There are no chains anywhere on a CLRV.

 

6 hours ago, Shaun said:

According to an article in Railway Age "UTDC had specified an outside-frame truck for the CLRVs, with higher-speed suburban operation in mind. Again, this became a redundancy—a troublesome and expensive one—with city street operation. The heavier truck, as compared to an inside-frame version, caused problems in operation, with noise and vibration issues resulting in numerous public complaints; derailments at switches; and deterioration of the concrete-encased track structure.". 

The ALRV's has inside frame trucks even though they where based on the same platform. 

And I thought that the ALRV'S where going to be used on the Scarborough RT line not the CLRV's.

If the ALRV'S where designed for high speed use why didn't they have outside frame truck designs?

ALRVs were not designed with any ability to couple - by the time they were getting designed, the SRT had already been reconfigured for the ICTS equipment.

 

The design brief for the ALRVs was somewhat different than that of the CLRVs, in part based on the several years of experience of operating the Cs - and partially to create some parts commonality with the H6 subway cars which were also then being designed. And because of that, they share the same trucks, traction motors and gearboxes.

 

Dan

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On December 31, 2019 at 4:02 PM, Downsview 108 said:

I am willing to guess that he was the reason CBC News couldn't air their coverage aboard 4068 although I may be wrong. I didn't see it on their website. 🙄

Apparently I missed out on quite the ride.

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3 hours ago, smallspy said:

There are no chains anywhere on a CLRV.

 

ALRVs were not designed with any ability to couple - by the time they were getting designed, the SRT had already been reconfigured for the ICTS equipment.

 

The design brief for the ALRVs was somewhat different than that of the CLRVs, in part based on the several years of experience of operating the Cs - and partially to create some parts commonality with the H6 subway cars which were also then being designed. And because of that, they share the same trucks, traction motors and gearboxes.

 

Dan

Aren't the wheels in the trucks connected so that if one locks up they both lock up?

So if the ALRV'S design was based on working out the kinks from the CLRV's then why where they not as successful? Or was it the commonality with the H6's the issue? 

 

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10 hours ago, Shaun said:

Aren't the wheels in the trucks connected so that if one locks up they both lock up?

They are, yes. But they don't use chains.

 

10 hours ago, Shaun said:

So if the ALRV'S design was based on working out the kinks from the CLRV's then why where they not as successful? Or was it the commonality with the H6's the issue?

Because a lot of the problems with the ALRVs came from the control systems, TMs, gearboxes, M/A sets - all of which were also problematic on the H6 cars.

 

I don't know how the air system was different than that of the CLRVs, but it too was not an improvement.


Dan

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403X was seen in Russell Yard being loaded onto a flatbed truck at around 0710 Hours. 

*I hope someone was able to get the Builders Plate Legitimately.

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1 minute ago, KMB_BUS said:

4034 was seen in Russell Yard being loaded onto a flatbed truck at around 0710 Hours. 

*I hope someone was able to get the Builders Plate Legitimately.

4034 went to the Illinois Rail Museum back in November 

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1 minute ago, CLRV4002 said:

4034 went to the Illinois Rail Museum back in November 

I will be honest, I meant 403X (Couldn't) see the last digit, but I will confirm if it is still in the yard when I go by again later today.

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1 hour ago, smallspy said:

They are, yes. But they don't use chains.

A more complete answer would state that the two axles in each truck are mechanically coupled to each other through the gear box on each axle through the drive shaft on the traction motor.

1 hour ago, smallspy said:

Because a lot of the problems with the ALRVs came from the control systems, TMs, gearboxes, M/A sets - all of which were also problematic on the H6 cars.

The MA sets was one area where the ALRVs and H6s diverged.  ALRVs had a static converter to make low voltage DC.  No need for a big three phase MA set since there was no air conditioning system being driven off it like there was on the subway cars which always struck me as a major omission on the streetcars.  The TTC was buying air conditioned buses, air conditioned subway cars, even the ICTS cars have A/C, but when they ordered the ALRVs, no, not even after the no-A/C, no-opening window mess on the CLRVs.

1 hour ago, smallspy said:

I don't know how the air system was different than that of the CLRVs, but it too was not an improvement.

Different OEM vendors mainly.

1 hour ago, smallspy said:

Dan

Not Dan

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While we're discussing the technical backgrounds of these cars, a few questions in that area from myself.

1. Door controls: During the last ALRV run, the driver of 4204 kept telling people that they were not to stand on the steps, or else the doors wouldn't be able to close. Was this merely a safety consideration, or was there no way to override the treadle on these cars and shut the doors?

2. What equipment generated the sounds heard in the two audio clips below? From context, I would assume that sound 1 is the air compressor coming on, since it doesn't seem to be on all the time, while sound 2 is the LVPS (motor-generator?), since it always seemed to be on, except when the car was passing under an insulator, but obviously I can't know that for certain.
 



3. What am I hearing here? It sounds like the chopper acceleration/decceleration, but it obviously can't be that as the car is stationary.
 

Thanks!

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40 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

While we're discussing the technical backgrounds of these cars, a few questions in that area from myself.

1. Door controls: During the last ALRV run, the driver of 4204 kept telling people that they were not to stand on the steps, or else the doors wouldn't be able to close. Was this merely a safety consideration, or was there no way to override the treadle on these cars and shut the doors?

I'm not aware of any way to override the treadle doors once they are open and someone is standing on them....ALRV or CLRV (or PCC, or buses).

For some reason, the ALRVs on Queen always seemed to confuse riders who didn't know how to open the doors, but I didn't see nearly as many problems in the later days of the CLRVs.

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44 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

I'm not aware of any way to override the treadle doors once they are open and someone is standing on them....ALRV or CLRV (or PCC, or buses).

For some reason, the ALRVs on Queen always seemed to confuse riders who didn't know how to open the doors, but I didn't see nearly as many problems in the later days of the CLRVs.

I noticed that too, that the ALRVs confused passengers right to the very end.  Yes, there’s no way to recall the treadles and force the rear doors closed when someone’s standing on the steps.

I played the YouTube clips but I couldn’t make out enough to get any ideas because I’m in a bit of a noisy environment right now. I’ll give them another listen once I’m somewhere quiet.  Generally speaking though, the LVPS sounds like a chopper because it is a chopper.  It’s a switching converter so it’ll be buzzing whenever the 600 V is on and there’s a load to drive on the output side. Frequency and duty cycle of the running sound it makes depends on what the input side (nominally 600 V but van move around quite a bit) and what kind of current is being demanded on the output side.  That’s known as line and load regulation over here in the world of complicated electronics that blah blah blah, yeah, I know, I’ve been told...

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9 minutes ago, KMB_BUS said:

Oh no 4175 was on a flatbed at Russell Yard approximately 0815

 

20200103_085135.jpg

4176.

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Saw 4105 on the move from Leslie Barns, presumably to Russell yard, at Leslie & Eastern, about half hour ago.

4105.jpg

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Can someone help me id the 2 cars in the deadline from this picture I took on Sunday 

6310F52A-4D1C-4B3F-A45B-952DB1E8B600.jpeg

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9 minutes ago, John Oke said:

Can someone help me id the 2 cars in the deadline from this picture I took on Sunday 

6310F52A-4D1C-4B3F-A45B-952DB1E8B600.jpeg

Try zooming in on the numbers.

Looks like 4051 on track 22 where it has been for the last few week.

4091, 4094 and 4074 where on track 20 in that order when last seen on Dec 29.

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2 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

4176.

Can confirm 4176 was the one on the flatbed, and is now gone from russel. Rip.

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On 1/2/2020 at 10:16 AM, PCC Guy said:

While we're discussing the technical backgrounds of these cars, a few questions in that area from myself.

1. Door controls: During the last ALRV run, the driver of 4204 kept telling people that they were not to stand on the steps, or else the doors wouldn't be able to close. Was this merely a safety consideration, or was there no way to override the treadle on these cars and shut the doors?

2. What equipment generated the sounds heard in the two audio clips below? From context, I would assume that sound 1 is the air compressor coming on, since it doesn't seem to be on all the time, while sound 2 is the LVPS (motor-generator?), since it always seemed to be on, except when the car was passing under an insulator, but obviously I can't know that for certain.
 



3. What am I hearing here? It sounds like the chopper acceleration/decceleration, but it obviously can't be that as the car is stationary.
 

Thanks!

Ok, I’ve taken another listen now that in in a quiet room and not a fifties diner with Louis Armstrong playing pretty loudly.

#1 is the LVPS for sure and you actually caught it going through one of those cycles where the switching converter drops out, starts up again and then slowly settles down into regulation.  That was very distinctive and unique to the CLRVs.

#2 I’m still not sure about.  I had a bit of a hard time separating it from the ambient noise and my iPad’s built in speakers are definitely not the thing to use for critical listening but it might have been the sighing sound the air suspension on those cars made as loading shifted.  If there were people moving around on the streetcar when you filmed that clip, that’s probably what that is.

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So it seems the 508 is currently bustituted for this board period according to Steve Munro and posts on other threads. I can’t really understand why CLRVs couldn’t be used for the 508.

There’s no way they couldn’t find 5 CLRVs a day that were decently reliable and I can’t really understand why accessibility is an issue since the entire route is interlined with accessible cars on the 504/501. The 508 is more of just a convenience/capacity booster anyways. 

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4 minutes ago, CLRV4002 said:

So it seems the 508 is currently bustituted for this board period according to Steve Munro and posts on other threads. I can’t really understand why CLRVs couldn’t be used for the 508.

There’s no way they couldn’t find 5 CLRVs a day that were decently reliable and I can’t really understand why accessibility is an issue since the entire route is interlined with accessible cars on the 504/501. The 508 is more of just a convenience/capacity booster anyways. 

The 508 is currently operating out of Wilson.

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