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TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion

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7 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

Well this is a huge surprise. 

Didn’t Halton themselves say that there’s no room left?

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34 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

Well this is a huge surprise. 

Halton did say they were keeping one of the CLRV's as a bargaining chip for future trades. That would probably be 4039.

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40 minutes ago, JWC said:

15 CLRVs parked on the dead tracks & 5 CLRVs parked close to the barn at Russell Yard. The other 10 are probably at Roncesevalles Yard?

Why would they be?

There are 28 CLRVs tracking at Russell that were just recently retired according to the Sammdot tracker, plus 4001 and 4178. Two, 4021 and 4105, the latter of which is already marked as retired, are tracking at Leslie.

You sure you counted correctly?

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2 hours ago, smallspy said:

Well, for one - they never ran in service coupled. During the design process, the TTC operated Queen service with MU'd PCCs, but this ended in 1977 or so - before the CLRVs actually entered service.

The second, and probably more important reason for why they removed the couplers is that there are a lot of electrical systems onboard the cars, and the couplers facilitated communication between them. And what frequently happened in the situation where a car became disabled was that upon coupling that the cause of the disablement would also affect the other car (or at least the disablement would not be cleared in such a way that a second car could take control of the disabled car). The TTC soon discovered that it was just easier to use a drawbar and tow or push a disabled car.

As for pedestrians, that's why the Shiner Skirts were installed. But they are also designed to fit over the couplers, and to be easily removed to allow access to the couplers.

They tested, but never ran in service as pairs. There was an idea thrown about about 15 years ago to run cars on King coupled up, but that was pretty quickly discarded.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. That video from Boston made me curious, that's all, especially that I did know that they ran PCC's in pairs.

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59 minutes ago, Streety McCarface said:

Well this is a huge surprise. 

I was hoping that one would stay in the city like at Wychwood but the more the merrier. The CLRVs are well preserved,

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49 minutes ago, Downsview 108 said:

I was hoping that one would stay in the city like at Wychwood but the more the merrier. The CLRVs are well preserved,

Apparently that fell through about a month ago according to a very reliable source.

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11 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Why would they be?

There are 28 CLRVs tracking at Russell that were just recently retired according to the Sammdot tracker, plus 4001 and 4178. Two, 4021 and 4105, the latter of which is already marked as retired, are tracking at Leslie.

You sure you counted correctly?

I only counted what I visibly saw outside in the yard.  I don't know how many CLRVs could possibly be inside the barn.

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3 hours ago, John Oke said:

Didn’t Halton themselves say that there’s no room left?

Some people have attributed such a comment to several volunteers there, but as an organization they never said such a thing.

 

Dan

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I took my last rides on Saturday and didn't make it back into Toronto in time to catch any of the last run specials on Queen St. before they ended yesterday just from how my work schedule shook out.  Today is the first day that there are no CLRVs at all and that fact sank in hard when I drove into work and passed by a couple of low floor cars on Bathurst making me realize that that's it.  That's all there is now.  The last of the stuff that made the place interesting is all gone.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the remaining cars that have been retired but not yet scrapped or sent to museums.  Hopefully some of them will avoid, to paraphrase the sign on the pocket track north of Davisville, "All streetcars immediately upon arrival must be destroyed" at the scrap yard.  The Toronto of 2020 is going to be a much blander place, that's for sure.

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29 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

Today is the first day that there are no CLRVs at all and that fact sank in hard when I drove into work and passed by a couple of low floor cars on Bathurst making me realize that that's it.  That's all there is now. 

I'm surprised they chose today to run buses instead of CLRVs on 508. An indication that there aren't enough Flexities even for the current schedule.

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38 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

I took my last rides on Saturday and didn't make it back into Toronto in time to catch any of the last run specials on Queen St. before they ended yesterday just from how my work schedule shook out.  Today is the first day that there are no CLRVs at all and that fact sank in hard when I drove into work and passed by a couple of low floor cars on Bathurst making me realize that that's it.  That's all there is now.  The last of the stuff that made the place interesting is all gone.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the remaining cars that have been retired but not yet scrapped or sent to museums.  Hopefully some of them will avoid, to paraphrase the sign on the pocket track north of Davisville, "All streetcars immediately upon arrival must be destroyed" at the scrap yard.  The Toronto of 2020 is going to be a much blander place, that's for sure.

At least now they have a few more candidates for historic vehicles they can throw on the 509 if they ever decide to do that again.

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33 minutes ago, nfitz said:

I'm surprised they chose today to run buses instead of CLRVs on 508. An indication that there aren't enough Flexities even for the current schedule.

On the plus side there was no 15 minute wait for Queen cars to clear Humber Loop.

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

I'm surprised they chose today to run buses instead of CLRVs on 508. An indication that there aren't enough Flexities even for the current schedule.

That would kind of put a silly twist on the whole "retirement ride" yesterday, and a commitment to retire them regardless if a few could still run.

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17 minutes ago, MK78 said:

That would kind of put a silly twist on the whole "retirement ride" yesterday, and a commitment to retire them regardless if a few could still run.

The whole retire the existing cars without first receiving (or ordering) replacements is already an even sillier twist

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1 minute ago, nfitz said:

The whole retire the existing cars without first receiving (or ordering) replacements is already an even sillier twist

Well, they have surplus of buses that can do the job until those extra units can be ordered...

I'm enjoying the bus service on 503, that's for sure. :)

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7 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Well, they have surplus of buses that can do the job until those extra units can be ordered...

I'm enjoying the bus service on 503, that's for sure. :)

503 frequencies are better with buses, but the ride is much rougher. But Kingston Road frequencies were always the exception, not the rule. Also, I have found it more challenging some days to squeeze on a 503 at Sherbourne than a 504.

Meanwhile we have so few streetcars that some lines, like 506, are less frequent in PM rush hour than mid-day or weekends!

Meanwhile the bus bunching and gaps on 505 are a complete shitshow.

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40 minutes ago, nfitz said:

503 frequencies are better with buses, but the ride is much rougher. But Kingston Road frequencies were always the exception, not the rule. Also, I have found it more challenging some days to squeeze on a 503 at Sherbourne than a 504.

Meanwhile we have so few streetcars that some lines, like 506, are less frequent in PM rush hour than mid-day or weekends!

Meanwhile the bus bunching and gaps on 505 are a complete shitshow.

Yeah I mostly take the 503 in the morning from Bingham loop, where there are always buses waiting. It used to be a shitshow with the streetcars cuz they'd always get hung up somewhere along the way.

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3 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Yeah I mostly take the 503 in the morning from Bingham loop, where there are always buses waiting. It used to be a shitshow with the streetcars cuz they'd always get hung up somewhere along the way.

Much of the 502/503 streetcar service problems were that the timing on the routes were completely impossible, so either they short-turn before getting downtown, before getting to Bingham, or have big gaps. And 502+503 were run separately, so no qualms about being in pairs.

No reason that streetcars couldn't be as reliable.

Though if they are going to use buses - extend them to Birchmount or VP station!

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6 hours ago, Jan Boic said:

Apparently that fell through about a month ago according to a very reliable source.

Which source?

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11 hours ago, nfitz said:

Much of the 502/503 streetcar service problems were that the timing on the routes were completely impossible, so either they short-turn before getting downtown, before getting to Bingham, or have big gaps. And 502+503 were run separately, so no qualms about being in pairs.

No reason that streetcars couldn't be as reliable.

Though if they are going to use buses - extend them to Birchmount or VP station!

I wonder what the 503 service would be like with Flexity. I don't even think there's room for two flexity's at Bingham loop. Someone would have to monitor that and make sure to get the operator to move off before the next one would roll in.

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