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TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion


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The updates to the wiki page on the CLRVs are nearly done. The actual status of the cars should be accurate as much as we know for sure right now. I have yet to input the dates for when the cars were carted off to scrap; most of my morning was sunk into compiling this information from posts on here, as well as in the various transit groups I'm a member of on Facebook, but I have completed the list as best I could. If anyone has any additional info, or info which contradicts this posting, please let me know. The list includes cars whose date of removal has been known since time immemorial like 4000.

4000: removed for scrap December 9, 2017
4002: removed for scrap October 2019
4004: removed for scrap October 30, 2019
4013: removed for scrap April 1, 2017
4014: removed for scrap March 31, 2019
4018: removed for scrap December 2017; photo posted on Facebook December 10, 2017, but unable to verify EXIF data
4019: removed for scrap October 2017; photo posted on Facebook October 9, 2017, but unable to verify EXIF data
4020: removed for scrap August 7, 2019
4022: removed for scrap July 9, 2019
4023: removed for scrap July 16, 2019
4027: removed for scrap week of October 29, 2018
4029: removed for scrap July 9, 2019
4030: removed for scrap October 21, 2019
4032: removed for scrap March 8, 2019
4041: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4045: removed for scrap April 25, 2018
4046: removed for scrap February 21, 2019
4049: removed for scrap August 15, 2019
4050: removed for scrap October 23, 2019
4055: removed for scrap April 25, 2018
4065: removed for scrap August 1, 2019
4066: removed for scrap July 17, 2019
4077: removed for scrap August 16, 2019
4080: removed for scrap on April 5, 2019
4084: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4087: removed for scrap June 7, 2019
4101: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4106: removed for scrap March 2019
4115: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4120: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4125: removed for scrap August 12 (?), 2019
4126: removed for scrap on April 5, 2019
4127: removed for scrap October 24, 2019
4132: removed for scrap October 31, 2019
4134: removed for scrap May 23, 2018
4135: removed for scrap September 6, 2019
4136: removed for scrap October 7, 2017
4139: removed for scrap late March 2018
4140: removed for scrap July 9, 2019
4146: removed for scrap October 25, 2019
4152: removed for scrap week of October 29, 2018; possibly November 1st
4153: removed for scrap in mid-July 2019
4154: removed for scrap week of October 29, 2018
4158: removed for scrap August 20, 2018 - this car was retired in December 2016 so I am following up with the person who took a photo of it on a flatbed to confirm the date
4161: removed for scrap in April 2018
4163: removed for scrap March 2019
4167: removed for scrap February 21, 2019
4177: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4180: removed for scrap August 13, 2019
4181: removed for scrap June 7, 2019
4182: removed for scrap July 15, 2019
4188: removed for scrap August 19, 2017
4189: removed for scrap October 18, 2019
4192: removed for scrap August 13, 2019
4199: removed for scrap March 22, 2019
4200: removed for scrap May 9, 2019
4203: removed for scrap May 22, 2019
4204: removed for preservation October 22, 2019
4208: removed for scrap week of May 27, 2019
4210: removed for scrap on May 13, 2019
4211: last served on 501 September 6/7, 2015
4213: removed for scrap September 7, 2018
4214: removed for scrap May 29, 2019
4217: removed for scrap week of May 27, 2019
4220: removed for scrap September 7, 2018
4221: air compressor failed - retired
4226: "A" section removed for scrap June 12, 2019
4227: last served March 2, 2016
4227: removed for scrap May 2, 2018
4229: removed for scrap June 8, 2019
4232: removed for scrap early October 2018
4233: removed for scrap May 2, 2018
4234: loaded onto truck December 14, 2015
4236: removed for scrap June 17, 2019
4237: removed for scrap May 22, 2019
4238: "A" section removed for scrap August 24, 2018, "B" section removed for scrap August 23, 2018
4239: removed for scrap week of May 27, 2019
4240: removed for scrap May 15, 2019
4242: removed for scrap May 9, 2019
4243: "A" section removed for scrap May 17, 2019
4244: removed for scrap June 20, 2018
4247: removed for scrap May 15, 2019
4251: removed for scrap on May 13, 2019

July 8 was a very bad day for the legacy fleet, as besides 4041, 4084, 4101, and 4120 which were reported in this thread, we also saw, according to the site linked below, the departure of 4115 and 4177.

https://canavbooks.wordpress.com/2019/07/09/ttc-clrv-recycling-phase-in-high-gear/?fbclid=IwAR0p16IAnNp_OMUK2wxHULXNrfjR5G935bny0kMJMdUPJ69SNLg0jo6A5Qc

I'll be editing the wiki tomorrow morning as I have real life things to attend to the rest of the day.

5 hours ago, FabianColeyLOVESBUSES said:

It seems as if 4169 could be retired now and also I think they decided to not repair 4103 as well after its breakdown a few days ago.

It's very possible neither of these two units will run again, but until they are confirmed to be done I will leave them marked as MIA.

4103 ran again after its breakdown - it broke down on October 27, and then briefly ran again on October 30. Its present status is not known.

3 hours ago, Genius101 said:

4098, 4103, 4119, 4141 and 4169 are amongst the CLRVs sitting on the "death row" at Russell.

Are they stripped?

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On 10/4/2019 at 12:13 AM, bus_7246 said:

I believe 4150 was hauled off property sometime in the summer. 

@PCC Guy

It was said 4150 was hauled away in the summer but no further info is known. 

4111 and 4131 have been retired since the Summer as well. Does anyone know if they are still sitting on TTC property?

https://mobile.twitter.com/writing_richard/status/619138795686920192

There’s a scrapped 4151

https://mobile.twitter.com/lkoch99/status/823221432385761280

And a scrapped 4061

I’m not sure if the exact dates in these posts are the scrap dates, but typically they’re posted shortly after the picture of taken (because hey it’s Twitter 😂)

 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

The updates to the wiki page on the CLRVs are nearly done. The actual status of the cars should be accurate as much as we know for sure right now. I have yet to input the dates for when the cars were carted off to scrap; most of my morning was sunk into compiling this information from posts on here, as well as in the various transit groups I'm a member of on Facebook, but I have completed the list as best I could. If anyone has any additional info, or info which contradicts this posting, please let me know. The list includes cars whose date of removal has been known since time immemorial like 4000.

4000: removed for scrap December 9, 2017
4002: removed for scrap October 2019
4004: removed for scrap October 30, 2019
4013: removed for scrap April 1, 2017
4014: removed for scrap March 31, 2019
4018: removed for scrap December 2017; photo posted on Facebook December 10, 2017, but unable to verify EXIF data
4019: removed for scrap October 2017; photo posted on Facebook October 9, 2017, but unable to verify EXIF data
4020: removed for scrap August 7, 2019
4022: removed for scrap July 9, 2019
4023: removed for scrap July 16, 2019
4027: removed for scrap week of October 29, 2018
4029: removed for scrap July 9, 2019
4030: removed for scrap October 21, 2019
4032: removed for scrap March 8, 2019
4041: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4045: removed for scrap April 25, 2018
4046: removed for scrap February 21, 2019
4049: removed for scrap August 15, 2019
4050: removed for scrap October 23, 2019
4055: removed for scrap April 25, 2018
4065: removed for scrap August 1, 2019
4066: removed for scrap July 17, 2019
4077: removed for scrap August 16, 2019
4080: removed for scrap on April 5, 2019
4084: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4087: removed for scrap June 7, 2019
4101: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4106: removed for scrap March 2019
4115: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4120: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4125: removed for scrap August 12 (?), 2019
4126: removed for scrap on April 5, 2019
4127: removed for scrap October 24, 2019
4132: removed for scrap October 31, 2019
4134: removed for scrap May 23, 2018
4135: removed for scrap September 6, 2019
4136: removed for scrap October 7, 2017
4139: removed for scrap late March 2018
4140: removed for scrap July 9, 2019
4146: removed for scrap October 25, 2019
4152: removed for scrap week of October 29, 2018; possibly November 1st
4153: removed for scrap in mid-July 2019
4154: removed for scrap week of October 29, 2018
4158: removed for scrap August 20, 2018 - this car was retired in December 2016 so I am following up with the person who took a photo of it on a flatbed to confirm the date
4161: removed for scrap in April 2018
4163: removed for scrap March 2019
4167: removed for scrap February 21, 2019
4177: removed for scrap July 8, 2019
4180: removed for scrap August 13, 2019
4181: removed for scrap June 7, 2019
4182: removed for scrap July 15, 2019
4188: removed for scrap August 19, 2017
4189: removed for scrap October 18, 2019
4192: removed for scrap August 13, 2019
4199: removed for scrap March 22, 2019
4200: removed for scrap May 9, 2019
4203: removed for scrap May 22, 2019
4204: removed for preservation October 22, 2019
4208: removed for scrap week of May 27, 2019
4210: removed for scrap on May 13, 2019
4211: last served on 501 September 6/7, 2015
4213: removed for scrap September 7, 2018
4214: removed for scrap May 29, 2019
4217: removed for scrap week of May 27, 2019
4220: removed for scrap September 7, 2018
4221: air compressor failed - retired
4226: "A" section removed for scrap June 12, 2019
4227: last served March 2, 2016
4227: removed for scrap May 2, 2018
4229: removed for scrap June 8, 2019
4232: removed for scrap early October 2018
4233: removed for scrap May 2, 2018
4234: loaded onto truck December 14, 2015
4236: removed for scrap June 17, 2019
4237: removed for scrap May 22, 2019
4238: "A" section removed for scrap August 24, 2018, "B" section removed for scrap August 23, 2018
4239: removed for scrap week of May 27, 2019
4240: removed for scrap May 15, 2019
4242: removed for scrap May 9, 2019
4243: "A" section removed for scrap May 17, 2019
4244: removed for scrap June 20, 2018
4247: removed for scrap May 15, 2019
4251: removed for scrap on May 13, 2019

July 8 was a very bad day for the legacy fleet, as besides 4041, 4084, 4101, and 4120 which were reported in this thread, we also saw, according to the site linked below, the departure of 4115 and 4177.

https://canavbooks.wordpress.com/2019/07/09/ttc-clrv-recycling-phase-in-high-gear/?fbclid=IwAR0p16IAnNp_OMUK2wxHULXNrfjR5G935bny0kMJMdUPJ69SNLg0jo6A5Qc

I'll be editing the wiki tomorrow morning as I have real life things to attend to the rest of the day.

It's very possible neither of these two units will run again, but until they are confirmed to be done I will leave them marked as MIA.

4103 ran again after its breakdown - it broke down on October 27, and then briefly ran again on October 30. Its present status is not known.

Are they stripped?

Thanks for the info! While passing by Hillcrest over the years, I have spotted 5 dead CLRV and a dead ALRV. The CLRV were 4004, 4016, 4031, 4116 and 4163. The ALRV I am unsure of, but I would assume it’s 4231. The scrap dates for 4004 and 4163 were already mentioned, but I may have some guesses for the others. Starting with 4016, it sat on Hillcrest property from about the fall of 2017, till some time in late winter/early spring of 2018. 4116 was at Hillcrest in September of 2015, as I took photos of it with a couple dead Orion V which were retired in August.  Finally I spotted 4031 sometime around March to April of 2016 before it left. I hope this helps out with the scrap dates.

 

EDIT: I also forgot to mention 4109. It was at Hillcrest for the 2016 open house. It was removed for scrap a few days later, and I believe it was mentioned somewhere in this thread that it went for scrap.

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4224 last ran on June 14 2018 and was scrapped in November 2018

4218 was also scrapped in November 2018

4237 last ran on June 23 2018

4205 and 4219 were scrapped on April 18 2018 (mentioned previously)

4215 was scrapped in late March/early April 2019 (?)

4225 was scrapped in June 2019

4198 scrapped on July 31 2019

4211, 4206, 4234 retired because of the same accident in September 2015

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1 hour ago, jor said:

4224 last ran on June 14 2018 and was scrapped in November 2018

4218 was also scrapped in November 2018

4237 last ran on June 23 2018

4205 and 4219 were scrapped on April 18 2018 (mentioned previously)

4215 was scrapped in late March/early April 2019 (?)

4225 was scrapped in June 2019

4198 scrapped on July 31 2019

4211, 4206, 4234 retired because of the same accident in September 2015

4206 was never involved in that collision. 4206 was plagued with bad electrical components in the later years of its life up to its retirement 

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2 hours ago, Orion VI said:

I thought I had heard about an american museum wanting one back in 2018, but never heard much since then.

I could be totally wrong, but I'd imagine that since almost all transit museums are not-for-profit,  rely on admissions & donations, that transport costs would be astronomical. 

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14 minutes ago, DepthOfField said:

I could be totally wrong, but I'd imagine that since almost all transit museums are not-for-profit,  rely on admissions & donations, that transport costs would be astronomical. 

Looking at the 1990s TTC streetcar retirements, 15 of the retired 17 cars were shipped outside the province. Who paid for that? How was that doable, but this is astronomical? 

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9 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Looking at the 1990s TTC streetcar retirements, 15 of the retired 17 cars were shipped outside the province. Who paid for that? How was that doable, but this is astronomical? 

Actually, 14 cars were shipped outside the province.

I do know 4613 and 4614 were shipped by rail with both CP and Union Pacific.

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36 minutes ago, Tom1122 said:

Actually, 14 cars were shipped outside the province.

Either I can't count or someone should fix the wiki (and I wouldn't put money on the Wiki being wrong).

Still, what has changed that makes this out of consideration now.

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18 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

@PCC Guy

It was said 4150 was hauled away in the summer but no further info is known. 

4111 and 4131 have been retired since the Summer as well. Does anyone know if they are still sitting on TTC property?

https://mobile.twitter.com/writing_richard/status/619138795686920192

There’s a scrapped 4151

https://mobile.twitter.com/lkoch99/status/823221432385761280

And a scrapped 4061

I’m not sure if the exact dates in these posts are the scrap dates, but typically they’re posted shortly after the picture of taken (because hey it’s Twitter 😂)

Fantastic sleuthing!! I have added these to my notes. I agree with you that there's no reason these shouldn't have been posted at the time the picture was taken, since a Twitter user never has any real motivation to sit on info. Thanks!!

18 hours ago, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

. Starting with 4016, it sat on Hillcrest property from about the fall of 2017, till some time in late winter/early spring of 2018. 4116 was at Hillcrest in September of 2015, as I took photos of it with a couple dead Orion V which were retired in August.  Finally I spotted 4031 sometime around March to April of 2016 before it left. I hope this helps out with the scrap dates.

It's hard to say when any of these units left because as we've seen from the list I've compiled to date, there seems to be no reason or rhyme to how long a vehicle stays on property after retirement. Cars like 4066 had a quick turnaround time (just over a month), others, like 4019, languished on property for what seems to be nearly two years before going away. For my part, in digging through the Toronto Transit Facebook group, I stumbled upon this post. (Photo is not mine, and is only posted here for illustrative reasons):

cwTTRcX.jpg

The date stamp doesn't necessarily mean anything, but 4016 is seen here with 4238 parked behind it. According to posts in this thread, the axe fell on 4238 in January 2018, but it was still reported as sitting in Leslie Barns on August 15, 2018, before the "A" section was reported as being hauled away for scrap on August 24, 2018, as noted above. That means that, absence of further confirmation, we could date the above photo to any date between January and August 2018. Happily, there are no trees nearby that could help us pinpoint the truth.

18 hours ago, Matthew TTC 4120 said:

EDIT: I also forgot to mention 4109. It was at Hillcrest for the 2016 open house. It was removed for scrap a few days later, and I believe it was mentioned somewhere in this thread that it went for scrap.

So it was. This was exactly what I was afraid of... that I was dealing with so many numbers that I glossed over some. I've added this to my notes. Thanks!!

18 hours ago, jor said:

4224 last ran on June 14 2018

I don't think this is true. If you open the tracker, you will see that there is no trip path of which to speak, unlike a car mentioned below like 4237:

https://www.transsee.ca/fleetfind?a=ttc&q=4224&findtrack=1

This blip on June 14 appears to be gone from the vehicle history now, but last year I posted this:

On 7/2/2018 at 12:11 PM, PCC Guy said:

4224 has had its GPS powered up every so often, but as far as I'm aware it hasn't left Russell at all since the end of April (maybe even earlier, I only started dipping into the feed regularly at the end of April) except to loop around Connaught and cycle through the line of streetcars. It was signed into the 501 on June 14, but it never made it out into service. I don't know if this is one of the 10 that died (presumably not, as the GPS was powered up as recently as 6 days ago), but if it ever runs again, I'll eat my hat.

 

The context behind this was that the vehicle history said that the car had been signed into the 501 but the only "stop" it had "serviced" was Queen and Woodfield or something like that (one of the nearest GPS coordinates) and never continued. From this I can either assume they:

a) tried to run the car, and failed
b) someone was playing around with the TRUMP unit and signed in to the route for shits and giggles (I don't know how the TTC works in this respect so I don't know if this actually happens here, mind you), or
c) they dropped the TRUMP unit in another car and failed to reprogram it

18 hours ago, jor said:

and was scrapped in November 2018

How do you know? The last reported sighting of it was that it had been towed to Leslie Barns on October 20, 2018, and was spotted by yours truly in the yard on October 27, 2018, during the open house. It is reasonable to assume it could've gone to scrap the following month, but I can't mark this down as a disposal date absent of confirmation (again, see 4019... or even 4041).

18 hours ago, jor said:

4218 was also scrapped in November 2018

Again, how can we know this?

18 hours ago, jor said:

4237 last ran on June 23 2018

I didn't know this one ran this late! It completely slipped under my radar. I have added this (actually the car was in overnight service on the 301, carried over from June 22, 2018) to my notes and will update the wiki accordingly. Thanks!

18 hours ago, jor said:

4205 and 4219 were scrapped on April 18 2018 (mentioned previously)

I missed these two, but I searched and found that this was indeed posted in here and I just missed it... again. Thanks!!

18 hours ago, jor said:

4215 was scrapped in late March/early April 2019 (?)

4215 was reported as having been moved, and the roof packages stripped, by May 15, 2019, and was reported as being "long gone" on June 2, leading me to believe that the car was hauled off for scrap in the days immediately after May 15, given the way the scrapping process was going in those days.

18 hours ago, jor said:

4225 was scrapped in June 2019

Essentially the same deal as 4215. It was reported as being set up in the scrapping position on June 10, 2019, but with no follow up. I suppose I could mark it as being scrapped in June 2019, however.

18 hours ago, jor said:

4198 scrapped on July 31 2019

I saw the Instagram post from that day but absent of confirmation that it was indeed car 4198 which was hauled away that day, I cannot mark it as having been removed that day.

18 hours ago, jor said:

4211, 4206, 4234 retired because of the same accident in September 2015

I don't think we ever found out the identity of the last car involved in that collision. As bus_7246 mentioned, 4206 was in a bad way long before, and was reported in this thread on June 5, 2015, as being a service hold.

Some great sleuthing here, guys! Thanks for sharing. I will update the wiki in short order. To add to our findings, I did some further digging and uncovered that 4231 was indicated in a May 14, 2015 post by 2044 that " this car was hauled away last week presumably to scrap", giving us the week of May 4, 2015, as the disposal date for 4231.

EDIT: Further update - 4213 and 4220 were actually removed for scrap on September 6, 2018; not 7. A post was made by bus_7246 on September 7, 2018 stating " 4213 and 4220 were hauled off to the scrapper yesterday."

Edited by PCC Guy
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27 minutes ago, CLRV4094 said:

The Flexity operation this weekend was temporary for the Royal Winter Fair. Probably will be like that next weekend too. After that, it should be all CLRV 

I honestly thought it would have continued throughout the week since the majority of weekday visitors are from class trips who often take advantage of the free child fares to get there. However, there aren't enough Flexitys to cover the 511 without converting the 506 back to mostly CLRV operation.

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27 minutes ago, christine said:

I honestly thought it would have continued throughout the week since the majority of weekday visitors are from class trips who often take advantage of the free child fares to get there. However, there aren't enough Flexitys to cover the 511 without converting the 506 back to mostly CLRV operation.

I was sort of surprised they just didn’t revert the 506 back temporarily. 

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On 11/3/2019 at 4:28 PM, bus_7246 said:

4206 was never involved in that collision. 4206 was plagued with bad electrical components in the later years of its life up to its retirement 

4213 was the third car in that three-car collision with 4211 and 4234. The front anticlimber was bent a bit, however it was back in service within a couple of days.

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