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TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion


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16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Certainly they could wrap everything in yellow and have large lowercase letters say things like "streetcar" or "bus" or "subway" with a tagline like "may include foamers" except the TTC's lawyers would probably hear from the Loblaw Companies lawyers about that if they did it...

:lol:

16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Yikes on the near accident in Bratislava!  PCC drum brakes are not self adjusting so they need to be touched up periodically as they wear; self adjusting drum brakes were on the ERPCC to do list when they wound down due to sales and royalties collapsing when street railways hit the bricks hard in the late forties and early fifties.  

I see. I've often wondered where they would've gone with the PCC design if the history of street railways had gone down a different road. Alas, it's all hypotheticals now.

The issue with the T3 brakes was also blamed for an accident in Kosice in 1978, where a pair of cars ran away and derailed at the foot of a steep grade, with great human cost. The original anecdote I relayed about the near accident in Bratislava was prompted by a discussion about that accident in particular, and the driver suspected that a similar cause was behind the Kosice accident. A full investigation was never done into the accident, as, tragically, the driver passed away in the accident, so the authorities of the time were content to just lay all the blame on her, as she couldn't defend herself. As maintenance was in a very bad way at the time, it wouldn't surprise me if that was exactly the culprit, however. A horrendous and ugly story :(

For my part, it's been a few years since I did my reading on that accident, but I followed up with the Bratislava driver about his runaway and he said that if the cars had been in good shape than they would've been able to come to a stop (and if not in good shape, then certainly if the speed limit had been set appropriately for the deferred maintenance conditions), but at the time well maintained drum brakes were about as common in the city as Tyrannosaurus Rex.

16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

Was there no deadman mechanism or did the driver defeat it?

There was no deadman (this was an early generation Tatra T6A5). Later orders for that type of car did come with a deadman mechanism, but I guess no one at the time of the first order felt this was necessary. After the accident, the fleet was retrofitted with such a mechanism, though unlike the regular practice, which was to have a spring loaded master controller that returned to neutral if you let go of it and applied the brakes after 5-10 seconds or so, they instead opted to replace one of the two pedals on the floor, previously used to operate the gong, to a deadman pedal. The other pedal was used to operate the sanders, and the controls for the gong were relocated to the dashboard.

16 hours ago, Wayside Observer said:

The problem is, with a two point failure with no battery power and no MG set, you could potentially end up in a no drum brake situation.

Wow!! From what you've told me about the GE set up, it's hard to imagine why any property would go for that one instead of WH at all.

To try to bring the topic of this post back to the CLRVs a little bit, I went and made some edits to the wiki page last night. I haven't been able to do the full scale edit I was hoping to do (I hope to find the time to do that tomorrow night), but I did add some information about the causes of retirement for various cars. I grabbed information from this thread leading up to April 10 of this year and filled in that information on the wiki according to info supplied by bus_7246, as well as additional information I recently gained from a conversation with Robert Lubinski:

4011 was retired due to a spongy floor
4117 was retired due to accident damage
4120 was selected to be a yard mule due to a leaking roof and subsequently retired
4130 last operated on November 10, 2017 on the 504 (this was pre-TransSee vehicle history)

The thread also has various causes of retirements for ALRVs, but I have yet to update that page. That will come in short order, too.

Big thanks go to them both!

EDIT: Per Facebook, 4132 made her last departure yesterday (i.e. October 31, 2019).

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Today is the Royal Winter Fair, and so far the 511 Bathurst route has remained all CLRV for the event. Will be nice riding one down there to the event tomorrow unless Flexity extras are out. There's always a high sprint of excitement going down there on a CLRV, probably because as we know they will soon be all gone. 

 

Also 4034 has returned to Russell.

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8 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

4011 was retired due to a spongy floor

Probably due to a leaking roof it had during 2018 which kept it out for most of the year while it was repaired. 

Might go to Russell on Sunday and post what cars are in the Dead line that I can see.

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42 minutes ago, John Oke said:

Probably due to a leaking roof it had during 2018 which kept it out for most of the year while it was repaired. 

Might go to Russell on Sunday and post what cars are in the Dead line that I can see.

Wait... what? I don't see what the relationship between these two items was. As you said, 4011 was repaired and ran in service for another 11 months before the reaper caught up with her.

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3 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Wait... what? I don't see what the relationship between these two items was. As you said, 4011 was repaired and ran in service for another 11 months before the reaper caught up with her.

Well, if the roof was leaking, chances are some of the water was beading down the inside surfaces, down the walls and getting soaked up by the plywood floor which would've stayed wet and continued quietly rotting after the roof was fixed.  If the roof leak wasn't the direct cause of the floor rotting and getting spongey, it sure was a contributor that didn't help matters.

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1 hour ago, Orion VI said:

Went to High Park loop to get some shots of the CLRVs before they leave. I asked an operator if the CLRV still had 507 signs, and he said no. Does anybody think that the TTC will equip them for the last day?

The 507 exposures were removed when they redid the signs in 1999/2000. The rear ones might have them but there's no reason why they'd use them on the last day.

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1 hour ago, Orion VI said:

Went to High Park loop to get some shots of the CLRVs before they leave. I asked an operator if the CLRV still had 507 signs, and he said no. Does anybody think that the TTC will equip them for the last day?

Why would they? It's a waste of money to equip a sign that they don't have in stock anymore on a streetcar that will be sent to the scrapper afterward anyways. 

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1 hour ago, FabianColeyLOVESBUSES said:

Is the route 506 Carlton going to continue use the CLRV going to the last day of service for the CLRV?  It seems as if 4169 could be retired now and also I think they decided to not repair 4103 as well after its breakdown a few days ago.

I think 506 is to be converted to Flexities November Board. 4103 ran the morning after the breakdown, and hasn't ran since. 

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