TTC CLRV/ALRV updates and discussion

[smallspy]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

So why retire buses that can be used for bustitution if we are short.  We could use them to fill the gap.  

Because the current bus fleet plan allows for enough vehicles to also cover the bustitution of several streetcar routes.

 

Or did you not notice that there weren't streetcars running on Bathurst or Dundas for some time now?

Dan

[ORION]

I saw 4226 at Exhibition Loop around 1:15pm today. 

[GrandeWest_B35G]

1 hour ago, Bus_Medic said:

 The Commission recently acquired a surplus rail yard/container terminal in the far west end from Canadian pacific.

Do you know what the capacity is?

[Robert Lubinski]

4034, 4164 and 4195 were on 504 today due to the power outage caused by the fire at Broadview & Dundas.

[TTC T6H-5307N 2252]

2 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Mechanical yes, space not so much anymore, at least for dead storage. The Commission recently acquired a surplus rail yard/container terminal in the far west end from Canadian pacific.

CP and Dream Unlimited Corp. teamed up back in January of 2015 to redevelop the land 

[CLRV4002]

This is just a general question I have:

In the earlier CLRV rollsigns it says “501 Racetrack” for Woodbine loop, but in the newer signs it says, as it does today “501 Kingston Rd & Queen”. And I’m assuming indicating Kingston Road is necessary, just as the 102 bus needs to say “Markham Road” instead of “Markham” to avoid confusion. 

My question is then, why is this sign different from the others as it includes “Queen” on it. Why isn’t it just “501 Kingston Rd.” ? Was it to avoid the confusion of people thinking it went up Kingston Road instead of just turning at the loop ? 

[TTC Guy]

Here is 4034, I got to take one last CLRV ride on the 504

[Ultimate]

4221 is now tracking at Hillcrest

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

CP and Dream Unlimited Corp. teamed up back in January of 2015 to redevelop the land 

Don’t care.

2 hours ago, Imgursdownvote4love said:

Do you know what the capacity is?

I haven’t been lucky enough to set foot inside there yet, but it’s ultimate purpose is to become a subway yard, with the possible addition of a bus division, so it’s pretty expansive.

[jor]

On transsee, it showed that more clrvs which included 4003, 4069, 4085, 4114, 4131 also ran on the 504

5 hours ago, J. Boic said:

I saw 4226 at Exhibition Loop around 1:15pm today. 

was it in service??? If it was than ALRVs are back on the 511 and 4226 should be active again

[CLRV4002]

1 hour ago, jor said:

was it in service??? If it was than ALRVs are back on the 511 and 4226 should be active again

It seemed to go right back to Roncessvalles so I’d say it wasn’t in service. That being said, I’m still curious as to why ALRVs have been going to Exhibition loop. So far 4226, 4230 and 4249 have gone there, each of them going along King to Bathurst to get there. I also believe CLRV 4117 or 4171 was there a couple days ago too. 

[Ultimate]

10:33 PM. 4204 is tracking at Queen / Shaw moving westbound

[CLRV4002]

14 minutes ago, Ultimate said:

10:33 PM. 4204 is tracking at Queen / Shaw moving westbound

It’s headed into Roncesvalles now. I’m speculating it’ll head to exhibition loop eventually just based on what other ALRVs have done. 

Does anyone know why ALRVs would be going to Roncesvalles? Is there some service they need that can’t be done at Russell ? 

[TransitFan88]

9 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

This is just a general question I have:

In the earlier CLRV rollsigns it says “501 Racetrack” for Woodbine loop, but in the newer signs it says, as it does today “501 Kingston Rd & Queen”. And I’m assuming indicating Kingston Road is necessary, just as the 102 bus needs to say “Markham Road” instead of “Markham” to avoid confusion. 

My question is then, why is this sign different from the others as it includes “Queen” on it. Why isn’t it just “501 Kingston Rd.” ? Was it to avoid the confusion of people thinking it went up Kingston Road instead of just turning at the loop ? 

It could be to reduce confusion as Kingston Road is considered an east-west arterial rather than a north-south, even at the intersection with Queen. All other destinations that contain “& Queen” are near or next to arterials that are perpendicular to Queen. 

On 5/10/2019 at 12:50 PM, smallspy said:

Boatloads? No.

 

They'd make a little bit of money, yes.  But you would be sorely disappointed if you think that this is potentially another avenue for a revenue stream for the TTC.

Dan

I think you’re greatly underestimating how big their stockpile is and how much demand exists for it. They have been listing T1 rollsigns on their shop site for a little while now - why not do the same and more with the streetcars? I have come across posts on Twitter and Facebook from people that are willing to pay good money for a piece of Toronto streetcar history. 

[bus_7246]

6 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

It seemed to go right back to Roncessvalles so I’d say it wasn’t in service. That being said, I’m still curious as to why ALRVs have been going to Exhibition loop. So far 4226, 4230 and 4249 have gone there, each of them going along King to Bathurst to get there. I also believe CLRV 4117 or 4171 was there a couple days ago too. 

I forgot why they did this since I started as an operator, but the cars going to Exhibition Loop go down there to conduct brake tests. Since all 3 yards are full of cars during the day, legacy cars go down there to perform brake tests

4 hours ago, CLRV4002 said:

It’s headed into Roncesvalles now. I’m speculating it’ll head to exhibition loop eventually just based on what other ALRVs have done. 

Does anyone know why ALRVs would be going to Roncesvalles? Is there some service they need that can’t be done at Russell ? 

Some work to maintain cars have been, and continue to be done out of Roncesvalles. Russell is now busy with decommissioning of cars and other work. Due to space constraints, cars go west for work that would put it on the backburner to sit at Russell if Roncesvalles was strictly low floors

[smallspy]

18 hours ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

CP and Dream Unlimited Corp. teamed up back in January of 2015 to redevelop the land 

Well, they wanted to - but the deal fell apart. The TTC took possession of the property back in November, I believe.

 

8 hours ago, TransitFan88 said:

I think you’re greatly underestimating how big their stockpile is and how much demand exists for it. They have been listing T1 rollsigns on their shop site for a little while now - why not do the same and more with the streetcars? I have come across posts on Twitter and Facebook from people that are willing to pay good money for a piece of Toronto streetcar history. 

I think that you think that I'm underestimating anything is amusing. Part of what I do for my day-to-day job is exactly this, and sometimes even with old transit and railway equipment and parts. I have just the slightest inclination how this kind of thing works.

 

There is a humongous discrepancy between what people say they will do - especially online, where they are afforded the merest whiff of anonymity - and what they actually do. Believe me, I see it every single day. You may say that you'll pay $100 for a trinket - but when the time comes for you to pull out your wallet and put your money where your mouth is, there's an exceedingly good chance that you'll pass on the offer.

 

Dan

[christine]

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

 

There is a humongous discrepancy between what people say they will do - especially online, where they are afforded the merest whiff of anonymity - and what they actually do. Believe me, I see it every single day. You may say that you'll pay $100 for a trinket - but when the time comes for you to pull out your wallet and put your money where your mouth is, there's an exceedingly good chance that you'll pass on the offer.

 

I was willing to pay that depending on the item. I know of others as well. Would there have been a market? Who knows, its never been tried for these vehicles. But the CLRV/ALRVs aren't exactly like PCCs or New Looks where there were thousands made. A very limited number were made and were exclusive to Toronto and an entire generation rode these things growing up. This reminds me of electronics. People threw away their old electronics from the 90s and 00s and now the value of those things have gone up due to the nostalgia and limited availability factor. 

 

However, I'm at peace with this and would now put my money towards preservation.  The TTC’s business is not to sell memorabilia or toys but to instead provide transit service. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

Edited May 24, 2019 by christine

[Downsview 108]

9 hours ago, TransitFan88 said:

It could be to reduce confusion as Kingston Road is considered an east-west arterial rather than a north-south, even at the intersection with Queen. All other destinations that contain “& Queen” are near or next to arterials that are perpendicular to Queen. 

I think you’re greatly underestimating how big their stockpile is and how much demand exists for it. They have been listing T1 rollsigns on their shop site for a little while now - why not do the same and more with the streetcars? I have come across posts on Twitter and Facebook from people that are willing to pay good money for a piece of Toronto streetcar history. 

Do you have sales figures for those signs?

 

[H4 5600]

A vision CLRV (dont remember the number) and 4221 both left hillcrest with NIS on the sign around 10:20 this morning.

[CLRV4002]

23 minutes ago, H4 5600 said:

A vision CLRV (dont remember the number) and 4221 both left hillcrest with NIS on the sign around 10:20 this morning.

4221 was returning to Russell. 4094 is the only CLRV with vision that I’m aware of 

[Ed T.]

3 hours ago, H4 5600 said:

A vision CLRV (dont remember the number) and 4221 both left hillcrest with NIS on the sign around 10:20 this morning.

I saw an ALRV pushing a CLRV westbound on Queen, around Parliament, maybe 7:30 AM-ish. I think it was 4221 and 4094.

[CLRV4002]

4 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

I saw an ALRV pushing a CLRV westbound on Queen, around Parliament, maybe 7:30 AM-ish. I think it was 4221 and 4094.

4094 is in service right now, unless it was a quick fix I’d say 4221 was the one needing a push 

[H4 5600]

44 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

I saw an ALRV pushing a CLRV westbound on Queen, around Parliament, maybe 7:30 AM-ish. I think it was 4221 and 4094.

both were moving under their own power when i saw them. They left a few minutes apart from each other.

[smallspy]

13 hours ago, christine said:

I was willing to pay that depending on the item. I know of others as well. Would there have been a market? Who knows, its never been tried for these vehicles. But the CLRV/ALRVs aren't exactly like PCCs or New Looks where there were thousands made. A very limited number were made and were exclusive to Toronto and an entire generation rode these things growing up. This reminds me of electronics. People threw away their old electronics from the 90s and 00s and now the value of those things have gone up due to the nostalgia and limited availability factor.

However, I'm at peace with this and would now put my money towards preservation.  The TTC’s business is not to sell memorabilia or toys but to instead provide transit service. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

First off, let's get something clear here. The TTC themselves is not selling anything. Anything bought off of the TTCshop.ca website is actually being purchased from a third-party, and sold on behalf of the TTC. The Commission receives a percentage of each sale. There have been a number of companies who have done this for the TTC over the past couple of years, and there is supposed to be a new contract going out for tender for it this fall. (Full disclosure - the company I work for has done business with the last two companies who have provided this service to the TTC.)

 

There are a number of companies who provide this kind of service to organizations such as the TTC. As a general rule, these guys know what they are doing and they do it well, and they know what will and won't sell. It's their business to do well.

 

In terms of parts from vehicles, the contracts that the TTC sign with the companies scrapping the vehicles have clauses requiring the return of specific equipment on each vehicle. In the past, these have included things such as radios, fareboxes, CIS equipment, etc. Rollsigns and the like are generally not included in that, but there is no reason why they couldn't be.

 

So, why were subway rollsigns sold but not streetcar ones? I suspect that it is due to what the TTC did or didn't have readily available in stores. Subway rollsigns very, very seldom wore out as they don't get changed often. On the other hand, streetcars (and buses) go through rollsigns very quickly because the rollsigns get changed dozens of times each day. Thus, they probably don't have very many spares at their disposal. (The use of front rollsigns in the rear of a number of cars would certainly be indicative of this.)

 

Is there a market for transit equipment memorabilia? Sure there is, there are a number of people who would buy it. Will it ever been a sustainable and substantial portion of the TTC's revenue stream? No chance in hell. Is there enough of a market to justify the lower revenue that they'd receive and headaches of the TTC requiring the scrapping companies returning loads of bits and bobs? Honestly, probably not.

 

I'm not going to lie - it's a bit of a shame, honestly. But it is what it is.

 

Dan

[CLRV4002]

On 5/22/2019 at 9:12 AM, smallspy said:

As of June 23rd, that is correct.

 

Dan

Do you know if the 511 will be a mixed fleet between low floors and CLRVs or will it be either all CLRV or all low floors. I’ve heard conflicting information from different places. Thanks !