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Bombardier/Alstom Flexity Deliveries


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On 7/30/2018 at 6:19 AM, drum118 said:

As a note, once a car is on TTC property, I count days from arrival to in service regardless how long a car maybe at Hillcrest. We don't know if work has to be done on the car first before being moved to the Barns.

Giving the fact 4489 has spent most of its time since arrival on July 10 (20 days ago) out in the yard and has yet to do any test running, I guess its part of this problem. This is the first car I have seen so far that has fail to do any testing by now.

Don't know if 4486 is near ready for service or not, but it been here 32 days so far and the longest of any car to enter service when it does.

Hard to say at this time if the pole issues for 4491 was minor or not, but been in various service bays as well out in the yard. 7 days and counting.

By the looks of things, 4490 has finished testing and been ready for service after 12 days been here.

TTC official raised red flags about Bombardier streetcar quality control

 

On 7/30/2018 at 1:20 PM, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Streetcar commissioning since the new year has typically been dragging on past 3 weeks or more from delivery. I know there was earlier speculation whether the cars were being shipped incomplete to meet deadlines but what if the long commissioning times are because of defective cars being received?

 

6 hours ago, drum118 said:

When one see cars that only been in service a week spending days in the service bay, you know things aren't up to par.

TTC internal emails flag sharp drop in reliability of new streetcars

Don't speculate on reasons for extended and erratic commissioning periods they said. You have no knowledge of cars being broken when they come in they said.

It might explain why there were fewer Flex cars out on 501 yesterday.

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5 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

It might explain why there were fewer Flex cars out on 501 yesterday.

There were 20 out when I looked yesterday late-afternoon. Which is the same number I've observed some other Sundays. Better than the 5 that are typically out on a weekday afternoon. There's 10 out right now ... perhaps there's some progress with the new board.

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49 minutes ago, andreymrklv said:

Tell me, please, when the cars ##4402, 4410, 4415, 4417-4419, 4426, 4429, 4432, 4435, 4437, 4441, 4446-4448, 4485 were transferred to the Roncesvalles carhouse?

All flexities can end up at either Leslie Barns or at Roncy. Some runs on the 512 deadhead to Leslie and Leslie still sends Flexities on the 512.

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2 hours ago, nfitz said:

There were 20 out when I looked yesterday late-afternoon. Which is the same number I've observed some other Sundays. Better than the 5 that are typically out on a weekday afternoon. There's 10 out right now ... perhaps there's some progress with the new board.

They've added 5 Flexities to weekday 501 service starting today.

 

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3 hours ago, andreymrklv said:

Tell me, please, when the cars ##4402, 4410, 4415, 4417-4419, 4426, 4429, 4432, 4435, 4437, 4441, 4446-4448, 4485 were transferred to the Roncesvalles carhouse?

Roncesvalles has a total of 23 Flexity cars allocated at all times - however, as @Shemar pointed out these are not permanent allocations -  cars are based at Leslie and rotated between Roncesvalles and Leslie depending on the scheduling of inspections and maintenance.

All scheduled runs on 512 St. Clair pull out from, and run in to Roncesvalles, except one AM peak tripper (run 2), which is operated by Leslie. Unscheduled extras - if any - are operated by Leslie, as well.

 

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Its been report elsewhere 4536 was off loaded yesterday.

4533 is now tracking

4537 maybe off loaded today or this week, since it in Toronto.

4538 & 4539 in transit.

If nothing get ship this month for TTC from Kingston, then all the cars will most likely be coming from TB, with a final delivery of Q1 2020.

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44 minutes ago, drum118 said:

If nothing get ship this month for TTC from Kingston, then all the cars will most likely be coming from TB, with a final delivery of Q1 2020. 

What's the thinking there? That Bombardier would invest all that time and money into getting a line up and running in Kingston only to produce a mere two cars total and then just stop? Seems highly unlikely. More likely, as others have suggested, they've paused Flexity production (or slowed it dramatically) in order to prioritize other work.

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2 hours ago, jameskoole said:

What's the thinking there? That Bombardier would invest all that time and money into getting a line up and running in Kingston only to produce a mere two cars total and then just stop? Seems highly unlikely. More likely, as others have suggested, they've paused Flexity production (or slowed it dramatically) in order to prioritize other work.

My thinking is Kingston will do Metrolinx and Edmonton orders only and let TB finish the rest of TTC order, even though it will be another miss date and a 2020 completion.

4533 is at the gate to leave the yard for its first test run

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1 hour ago, drum118 said:

My thinking is Kingston will do Metrolinx and Edmonton orders only and let TB finish the rest of TTC order, even though it will be another miss date and a 2020 completion.

Given that TTC has already sued them for the maximum penalty, they'll incur no further penalty. After TTC cancelled their plans to buy 60 more streetcars this year, there was no carrot remaining. Surely best business decision is to focus on the other 2 orders and not incur more penalties.

Meanwhile, at the rate they are going, they should be finished around end of Q1 2020 anyway - it's not like they are going to get much more horrific press with so few left to deliver in 2020.

If they can only ship the 62 cars they delivered in 2018, they'll have 184 of the 204 shipped by the end of the year ... 185 if 4401 comes back this year. Only 19 left to come at the end of year isn't the worst press ever.

They look like they are ahead of last year already. They only shipped 10 (and delivered 11) in the first quarter last year. Looks like they've shipped 19 already this year if 4539 is shipped as reported.

 

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1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Given that TTC has already sued them for the maximum penalty, they'll incur no further penalty. After TTC cancelled their plans to buy 60 more streetcars this year, there was no carrot remaining. Surely best business decision is to focus on the other 2 orders and not incur more penalties.

Meanwhile, at the rate they are going, they should be finished around end of Q1 2020 anyway - it's not like they are going to get much more horrific press with so few left to deliver in 2020.

If they can only ship the 62 cars they delivered in 2018, they'll have 184 of the 204 shipped by the end of the year ... 185 if 4401 comes back this year. Only 19 left to come at the end of year isn't the worst press ever.

They look like they are ahead of last year already. They only shipped 10 (and delivered 11) in the first quarter last year. Looks like they've shipped 19 already this year if 4539 is shipped as reported.

 

Under the current contract, BBD doesn't have anything to loose at this time, even if they miss Dec 31, 2019 date. 

Based on other things including missing Dec 31, 2019 date, they have a lot to loose.

Other than having Ford forcing TTC to buy extra cars, BBD will be lucky to see another car/fleet being sold in NA.

4522 was the first car to be shipped this year and 4533 being off loaded on March 26, TTC received 13 cars for Q1. BBD has shipped 18 cars so far this year and may ship more cars this year than in the past.

4401 will return this year at some point.

4533 March 27 at Church St on Queen St.

47472746822_a0f2c848e6_b.jpg

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50 minutes ago, drum118 said:

4522 was the first car to be shipped this year and 4533 being off loaded on March 26, TTC received 13 cars for Q1. BBD has shipped 18 cars so far this year and may ship more cars this year than in the past.

Math is getting tougher (for me at least).

4522 was the first shipped this year.

But I think it's 16 delivered in Q1 not 13.  4521 (delivered January 3) through 4535 plus 4573 is 16.

Shipped ... I think that's that's 4522 to 4539 plus 4573 equals 19 so far this year.

(yes, I actually used my fingers just now! :)  )

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14 hours ago, nfitz said:

Given that TTC has already sued them for the maximum penalty, they'll incur no further penalty.

Absolutely not the case.

 

Discussions are still happening on a regular basis. Just because they've reached the maximum penalty as stated in the contract doesn't mean that TTC can't go for more - they intend to.

 

Dan

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One year and a day after initial delivery, and after almost eight months in dead storage at Leslie, car 4471 is off-property as of this morning (i.e. Wed, Apr. 3).

To recap - this was the last waterlogged car still on hold after the flash flooding at King & Atlantic on Aug. 7, 2018. Flexity #4511 towed it to Hillcrest early this morning. 4511 was also used to load it up on CP's railcar for transport to Kanona, NY.

I am being told that in addition to the Presto equipment (which was salvaged immediately after the incident last August),  some items were harvested for spare parts, including the pantograph and many of the electronic components on the roof of the car.

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Speaking of damaged cars, what's the deal with 4486? It suffered damage in that incident at St. Clair with the overhead back in September. I've seen it here and there on the tracker, but never in service. Same for 4406 which also apparently was damaged somehow and is generally sitting at Leslie and never in service.

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23 hours ago, smallspy said:

Absolutely not the case.

 

Discussions are still happening on a regular basis. Just because they've reached the maximum penalty as stated in the contract doesn't mean that TTC can't go for more - they intend to.

True, they can always attempt to exceed the contracted penalty. I'd think though that Bombardier's actions would have to be pretty egregious to win a claim simply if the last few cars are a few weeks late, given that the delivery rates have been in the 60 car a year range lately - significantly higher than the originally reported 36 to 39 cars.

Is it possible that in the ongoing discussions, that TTC has accepted that the final cars would only come in early 2020 rather than late 2019? There's some indication in recent TTC budget and fleet plans, that they are expecting some in early 2020.

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8 hours ago, nfitz said:

True, they can always attempt to exceed the contracted penalty. I'd think though that Bombardier's actions would have to be pretty egregious to win a claim simply if the last few cars are a few weeks late, given that the delivery rates have been in the 60 car a year range lately - significantly higher than the originally reported 36 to 39 cars.

 

Not necessarily. The contract called for specific targets in terms of when a certain number of cars were to be in service - not just the final delivery. I think that we can all agree that Bombardier did not meet those clauses in the contract, and so the TTC can go to court - or even just an arbitrator - if they feel that the maximum penalty wasn't sufficient.

 

Quote

Is it possible that in the ongoing discussions, that TTC has accepted that the final cars would only come in early 2020 rather than late 2019? There's some indication in recent TTC budget and fleet plans, that they are expecting some in early 2020.

 

The wording hasn't seemed to be particularly clear on that, and I can't figure out whether they mean the cars will arrive in 2020 or simply enter service in 2020. (Considering how quickly the cars generally have been entering service of late however, I'm not sure why they would make such a distinction to be honest.) From the people that I've talked to on the inside, the feeling is that Bombardier will deliver the last car in 2020, and maybe only a couple of the units before - most people seem confident that the vast, vast majority of the order will arrive on time.


Dan

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