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Winnipeg Transit Battery Electric Buses


DavidW
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  • 1 month later...

Been wondering when WT will move forward and get more electric buses. Here is a clue:

Page 34 of the below City of Brampton, Committee of Council, Agenda

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/meetings-agendas/Committee of Council 2010/20170301cw_Agenda.pdf

indicates that Winnipeg Transit/Manitoba Hydro/University of Manitoba will be involved in Phase III (years 2021-2023) of the Pan-Ontario Electric Bus Demonstration & Integration Trial. The Trial is being led by the Canadian Urban Transit Research and Innovation Consortium (CUTRIC) on behalf of participating transit agencies; Brampton Transit has been participating as lead transit agency.

This Trial is being recognized as a global first of its kind. It is a consortium-based project bringing together investors & stakeholders from transit agencies, local hydro distribution companies (LDCs), bus and charging equipment manufacturers (chargerOEMs), and research/academia.

Winnipeg Transit knows more about electric buses on the street than anyone in Canada, but perhaps decision makers do not want to move forward with more buses just yet, or at least not on their own. In this way, they will no longer be the only ones--nor even the TA with the most electric buses.

 

 

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I was told this week that Winnipeg Transit was about to acquire four more XE40s but I'm not sure that is a reliable rumour. I think more likely that as the four year trial project comes to an end that Winnipeg Transit might take ownership of the four trial units already operating.

Either way the end of the four year trial should mean some changes are coming.

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  • 3 weeks later...

If WT takes ownership then I would hope it means more regular operation of them on the line, instead of one or two operating and one getting checked out by NFI and one on a tour. If WT adds any more XE40 to their fleet, do you think they would likely expand service to the 15, or install another charger and add them somewhere else?

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19 hours ago, MVTArider said:

If WT takes ownership then I would hope it means more regular operation of them on the line, instead of one or two operating and one getting checked out by NFI and one on a tour. If WT adds any more XE40 to their fleet, do you think they would likely expand service to the 15, or install another charger and add them somewhere else?

 

3 hours ago, Viafreak said:

A question that I have is if Transit buys the trial buses (994-998), will they be repainted to the same paint scheme as the XD40's?

All interesting questions. I haven't heard any information that would answer them.

I do wonder if there is enough available charge time on the existing charger to add a second route. One of the things I wonder about is the very long layover time scheduled for route 20 under the charger. Buses that arrive on time at the airport can sit for nearly a half hour under the charger before departing. It's scheduled as the sum of a nearly maximum charge time plus the route's normal layover/recovery time. It seems to me that the schedule could be tightened up somewhat, at least assuming that some of those minutes could be counted against both needs.

There is a notion to improve the software scheduling by feeding delay data (collected from GPS) into the model. That should tailor travel times closer to typical traffic conditions hour by hour and perhaps they could stop padding every trip all day with the rush hour recovery time. 

As it stands now the electrics are parked for 30 minutes for every 2 hour round trip. That's 20% idle, a significant overhead that makes the electrics look less efficient than I think they should.

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Nice contribution, David

I recall New Flyer saying that their fast-charge buses with on route charging can charge in 10 minutes, but that appears not to be the case here, or they are being abundantly cautious. EV battery technology is improving every year and Flyer may already have technology available to reduce this time on the charger. In fact, Proterra buses charge en route in 10 minutes AFAIK, and have been doing so for years.

One way would be simply a bigger battery.

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23 hours ago, MAX BRT said:

I recall New Flyer saying that their fast-charge buses with route charging can charge in 10 minutes, but that appears not to be the case here, or they are being abundantly cautious. EV battery technology is improving every year and Flyer may already have technology available to reduce this time on the charger. In fact, Proterra buses charge en route in 10 minutes AFAIK, and have been doing so for years.

One way would be simply a bigger battery.

I think the generous layover time is probably a product of abundant caution.  This is, after all, a trial implementation of a new technology. And if I was to characterize Winnipeg Transit vis-a-vis new technology (new best practices, new ideas, new anything, really) it would be that Winnipeg Transit is very, very conservative. "Risk Adverse" should be the motto on their logo.

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  • 2 weeks later...

At about 1pm today I observed one of the XE40s running westbound on Taylor Avenue at Nathaniel. It went by too quickly to get the number. It was towing a trailer of white battery boxes. 

I didn't know they had a trailer of extra batteries. I wonder where it was going...

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1 hour ago, DavidW said:

At about 1pm today I observed one of the XE40s running westbound on Taylor Avenue at Nathaniel. It went by too quickly to get the number. It was towing a trailer of white battery boxes. 

I didn't know they had a trailer of extra batteries. I wonder where it was going...

That was more likely 998?

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10 hours ago, bus is coming 1965 said:

That was more likely 998?

Saw it on Wednesday just before noon near Union Station: 998 with the trailer.  (I think David W posted a better picture of it within this thread of it in the WT garage.)

trailer.jpg

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On 5/4/2017 at 8:55 PM, DavidW said:

At about 1pm today I observed one of the XE40s running westbound on Taylor Avenue at Nathaniel. It went by too quickly to get the number. It was towing a trailer of white battery boxes. 

I didn't know they had a trailer of extra batteries. I wonder where it was going...

Demoing a different battery model or capacity? (Unplug the ones installed on the bus and plug in the ones on the trailer, run around town for a week or so to test.)

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Bus 998 must be following me today, I saw the bus will the trailer going up Pembina (Bishop Grandin) just before 9am, and again going east on Portage by Polo Park before 1pm.

The bus now has a plastic covering one of the upper windows on the right side of the bus near the front.

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 2017-05-06 at 7:36 PM, MVTArider said:

Demoing a different battery model or capacity? (Unplug the ones installed on the bus and plug in the ones on the trailer, run around town for a week or so to test.)

Why not just put up the catenary back and bring back the trolleybus? It'd be more reliable than this battery "experiment" that doesn't seem to end.

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  • 1 month later...

 

17 minutes ago, Taylorover9001 said:

Rode 995 and 996 today. Don't know if it was already posted, but the display on 995 has a weird font.

(Aviary Photo_131460142835564155.png

It happens from time to time, I saw this in a few other buses (#103,422,987...)

it looks better imho

also, anyone knows what happened to #994?

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5 hours ago, matt548 said:

 

It happens from time to time, I saw this in a few other buses (#103,422,987...)

it looks better imho

Interesting. This is my first time seeing this font and riding in 995, so yeah.

The whereabouts of 994, and 998 are a good question. I've ridden 997, 996, and 995 in the past couple weeks, which is easy because they all operate on Route 20 through Graham Mall. I'd like to ride 994 and 998 as well, but haven't seen them (The only time I saw 998 with my own eyes was in 2014, before the XE40's were in regular service and before it had a number). I know 998 isn't in regular service, but why?

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36 minutes ago, Taylorover9001 said:

Rode 995 and 996 today. Don't know if it was already posted, but the display on 995 has a weird font.

Aviary Photo_131460142835564155.png

I don't think it's weird at all. In fact, the STARIS display in Singapore's SMRT trains has the same serif font and in fact looks very similar (except for the housing)!

Vacuum_fluorescent_display_in_a_Mass_Rap

Vacuum_fluorescent_display_in_a_Mass_Rapid_Transit_train%2C_Singapore_-_2008205.jpg

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1 minute ago, Transit geek said:

I don't think it's weird at all. In fact, the STARIS display in Singapore's SMRT trains has the same serif font and in fact looks very similar (except for the housing)!

Vacuum_fluorescent_display_in_a_Mass_Rap

Vacuum_fluorescent_display_in_a_Mass_Rapid_Transit_train%2C_Singapore_-_2008205.jpg

I meant, it was very different from the normal font used by Winnipeg Transit. I'm not used to it.

Aviary Photo_131460170155668036.png

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50 minutes ago, Taylorover9001 said:

Interesting. This is my first time seeing this font and riding in 995, so yeah.

The whereabouts of 994, and 998 are a good question. I've ridden 997, 996, and 995 in the past couple weeks, which is easy because they all operate on Route 20 through Graham Mall. I'd like to ride 994 and 998 as well, but haven't seen them (The only time I saw 998 with my own eyes was in 2014, before the XE40's were in regular service). I know 998 isn't in regular service, but why?

I suspect that 998 is not in service because the pilot agreement is for four buses. 998 seems to have been a substitute while 994 was on tour but now that all four planned units are at Winnipeg Transit 998 goes back to New Flyer. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

 

In the Winnipeg Free Press, the associate head of the department of biosystems engineering at the University of Manitoba argues (rather convincingly too) that Winnipeg is perfectly matched for electric buses.

 

 

 

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/twelve-years-to-transform-transit-441358583.html

 

 

 

(quote) But only one city has a combination of factors that makes it a perfect candidate for battery-electric buses: Winnipeg.

 

 

 

With the presence of a local bus manufacturer with extensive experience in battery-electric buses (New Flyer Industries), one of the lowest electricity costs in the developed world (Manitoba Hydro), a 100 per cent renewable electricity generation mix and a transit authority that has been working with the local utility, bus maker and researchers to test and perfect the on-route charging infrastructure needed to complete the transition, there is no other jurisdiction that can match these conditions.(end quote)

 

 

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