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I have a complete random question that you may not know the answer to if someone does "Thank you for answering the question."

Why does Community transit run there own routes to UW or Downtown Seattle? Why don't they give those routes to Sound Transit and operate the route on contract from Sound Transit?

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Does seem strange that ST only has a few of the routes north...Could the 400/800 routes be ones that Sound Transit does not want to operate or something??

No Pierce Transit routes go to Seattle, as they were all taken by ST. So, why weren't the remaining Community Transit routes taken as well?

Very good question.

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The original Sound Move plan dictated corridors which would become Regional Express routes. There was a lot of politics involved with the corridor selection, and later with service levels.

Over time, ST has changed most of the original system in various ways, to accommodate changing patterns as well to provide "experimental service" which later proved to be successful.

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The original Sound Move plan dictated corridors which would become Regional Express routes. There was a lot of politics involved with the corridor selection, and later with service levels.

Over time, ST has changed most of the original system in various ways, to accommodate changing patterns as well to provide "experimental service" which later proved to be successful.

Could Sound Transit take over the routes if Community Transit allows the switch of the 400/800 series routes? I think that would be a good idea because the routes can get increase service like midday and weekend service and Community transit will not as many buses since the routes would run with Sound Transit buses.

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Perhaps one of the reasons that ST has not taken over the CT routes are the long local tails (remember that ST is express service) and a few routes outside of the district.

Here's a particular breakdown of possible re-routes that could be done:

402: Exact same routing as 511/512

405: 511/512/513 + re-routed 119 via 72nd/Edmonds PR

410: Additional Stop for the 513

412: New route from I-5 to Silver Firs + transfer to ST @ I-5

413/415: 511 Extension to Swamp Creek instead of Ash Wy

416: Use 130 to transfer to Sounder at Edmonds or Bus at Mountalke Terrace

417: Use 113 to transfer to Sounder at Mukilteo or Bus at Ash Wy

421/422: Keep northern tail and transfer to ST routes or sounder at Everett Station

424: Completely out of ST district and any ST routes

425: Outside of ST district. Possibly more service on rt. 280 and connect to 510/512 at Everett Sta

435: 105/106 + transfer at Mariner PR

For UW routes have a 512-like milk run that ends at UW instead of Seattle

810/860: use new ST route

821: Use Marysville route and connect to new ST route

855: use new ST route

871: use 119 and new ST route

880: New route between Mukilteo and Ash way OR faster, more direct 113. Connect with new ST route at Ash Wy

So in terms of frequencies it would give something like that, in the peak direction:

510: 5 min (stop change - stops at Mountlake Terrace)

511: 5 min (expansion - terminates at Swamp Creek instead of Ash Wy)

513: 10 min (Stop Change - stops at Mariner PR)

UW Route: 10 min

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Could Sound Transit take over the routes if Community Transit allows the switch of the 400/800 series routes? I think that would be a good idea because the routes can get increase service like midday and weekend service and Community transit will not as many buses since the routes would run with Sound Transit buses.

No. It is not up to CT to "allow" ST to take the routes. As Brian posted above, the routes and corridors that ST operates were originally dictated by Sound Move from 1996 and a few follow up votes, as well as board actions staying in step with original proposals.

The original Sound Move plan dictated corridors which would become Regional Express routes. There was a lot of politics involved with the corridor selection, and later with service levels.

Over time, ST has changed most of the original system in various ways, to accommodate changing patterns as well to provide "experimental service" which later proved to be successful.

The greatest corridor development ST did was on the Bellevue-Snohomish County I-405 corridor. Hard to believe that before the 530/532/535 came online in 1999/2000 the only service along the corridor was the hourly 340 (and only as far as Bothell) and a couple of peak only, very low ridership CT routes (which were oriented towards Microsoft and not Bellevue). The growth in this corridor has just been stunning to watch.

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Sound Transit's Regional Express network was not planned or intended for Peak-Hour Suburb-Downtown commuting. It was designed to facilitate regional connectivity, which prior to ST REX was just disgraceful. For example, Everett to Seattle anytime outside of the morning rush hours would take literally half a day to accomplish. Now it's 1 hour.

*theoretical examples*

Everett Hoyt/California CT route 610 at 910am

Arrive Aurora Village at 10am

Aurora Village Metro 359 (M-S) 1000am 6 (Su) 1020am

Arrive 5th/Madison 1050am (M-S) 1115am (Su)

Bellevue to Auburn, *rolls eyes* oh dear that commute would have been utter hell.

Bellevue TC Metro 340 920am

Southcenter Mall 340 1006am

Southcenter Mall 150 1009am

Auburn X-fer 150 1050am

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Perhaps one of the reasons that ST has not taken over the CT routes are the long local tails (remember that ST is express service) and a few routes outside of the district.

A couple of points ...

*CT Commuter routes have always been oriented in an absolute one seat ride mindset. They're getting better about just doing Park and Ride - I-5 - Downtown type routes, but some of these historical routes wander all over hell and creation on the local streets.

*CT's focus with their Commuter routes has always been the traditional 9-5 Downtown worker. As many of us know, the majority of commuting in the US is suburb to suburb, which has left CT with a robust Commuter network that only serves a small section of their potential ridership. This, again, is a historical record. As additional business hubs have developed, CT has not reoriented their network. Metro has done a much better job making these changes, though a whole scale redesign of much of the South King commuter service is about five years overdue.

*A good friend of mind who was "in the biz" for many years until he passed a few years ago always liked to point out the different approaches between CT and PT in their commuter market. CT was focused on the absolute one seat ride, with all these commuter only oriented routes. Before ST there was only one all day Snohomish County to Seattle route (the 418) and it was hourly day base, with limited night and saturday (but no Sunday service). I remember riding on this sucker (always with the same driver, the older guy with cowboy boots ... I'm sure Brian remembers him as well). It was absolutely painful. I think it took surface streets between Lynnwood P&R and Mountlake Terrace P&R and made local stops. Good grief. CT basically did nothing to develop the all day suburban express market.

On the other hand, the Pierce County ST routes are basically what PT had developed. ST has improved span and frequency in the off peak times on the 594 (including Sunday service) but otherwise, what you see is what we've had since the early 90s. PT's commitment to all day base service created a much more robust ridership than CT could have ever dreamed of.

Sound Transit's Regional Express network was not planned or intended for Peak-Hour Suburb-Downtown commuting. It was designed to facilitate regional connectivity, which prior to ST REX was just disgraceful. For example, Everett to Seattle anytime outside of the morning rush hours would take literally half a day to accomplish. Now it's 1 hour.

Bellevue to Auburn, *rolls eyes* oh dear that commute would have been utter hell.

What, you didn't like the 340 from Bellevue to Southcenter and then the loooooong sloooooow Breda ride on the 150. That would have only taken about 2.5 hours.

As I posted just a moment ago, I'm sure you remember the long rides on CT's 418 (surface streets from Lynnwood P&R to Mtlk Terr P&R, plus whatever other running around it did north of Lynnwood - was the terminal at Mariner P&R?). ST tapped into a market CT had totally neglected.

For those who don't remember the horror that was the 418 ... here's a timetable from just before ST started in 1999.

I still don't understand why there wasn't any S/B service on weekdays after 2PM. I mean, they couldn't put a couple of deadheading bus in service and let them, you know, carry passengers.

https://web.archive.org/web/19990508154857/http://www.commtrans.org/Weekday/418.html

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A couple of points ...

*CT Commuter routes have always been oriented in an absolute one seat ride mindset. They're getting better about just doing Park and Ride - I-5 - Downtown type routes, but some of these historical routes wander all over hell and creation on the local streets.

*CT's focus with their Commuter routes has always been the traditional 9-5 Downtown worker. As many of us know, the majority of commuting in the US is suburb to suburb, which has left CT with a robust Commuter network that only serves a small section of their potential ridership. This, again, is a historical record. As additional business hubs have developed, CT has not reoriented their network. Metro has done a much better job making these changes, though a whole scale redesign of much of the South King commuter service is about five years overdue.

*A good friend of mind who was "in the biz" for many years until he passed a few years ago always liked to point out the different approaches between CT and PT in their commuter market. CT was focused on the absolute one seat ride, with all these commuter only oriented routes. Before ST there was only one all day Snohomish County to Seattle route (the 418) and it was hourly day base, with limited night and saturday (but no Sunday service). I remember riding on this sucker (always with the same driver, the older guy with cowboy boots ... I'm sure Brian remembers him as well). It was absolutely painful. I think it took surface streets between Lynnwood P&R and Mountlake Terrace P&R and made local stops. Good grief. CT basically did nothing to develop the all day suburban express market.

On the other hand, the Pierce County ST routes are basically what PT had developed. ST has improved span and frequency in the off peak times on the 594 (including Sunday service) but otherwise, what you see is what we've had since the early 90s. PT's commitment to all day base service created a much more robust ridership than CT could have ever dreamed of.

What, you didn't like the 340 from Bellevue to Southcenter and then the loooooong sloooooow Breda ride on the 150. That would have only taken about 2.5 hours.

As I posted just a moment ago, I'm sure you remember the long rides on CT's 418 (surface streets from Lynnwood P&R to Mtlk Terr P&R, plus whatever other running around it did north of Lynnwood - was the terminal at Mariner P&R?). ST tapped into a market CT had totally neglected.

For those who don't remember the horror that was the 418 ... here's a timetable from just before ST started in 1999.

I still don't understand why there wasn't any S/B service on weekdays after 2PM. I mean, they couldn't put a couple of deadheading bus in service and let them, you know, carry passengers.

https://web.archive....eekday/418.html

Oh yeah, I went to Mariner HS, 91-93. I lived in the little corner across from Silver Lake. I remember the 418 very well, used it a lot on Saturdays (when it was actually useful), and I remember there being 3 drivers of mention on the route. One got promoted to ATE supervisor, one wore hearing aids (and I think is the one you're referring to wearing cowboy boots), and the other was something of a bus nut, as we would be called back then. They would often run artics on the 418 once the Ikarus' came in (something about running them all day long, and they were easier to load wheelchairs on than the RTS's or Gilligs).

During the week I usually went to the U district, even making a particular habit of doing the trip on Thursday afternoons. I'd get out of school, walk down to Mariner P/R, and catch the 810 down to the UW, where I'd eat at a couple different cafes around there then. Sometimes I'd head up to Broadway for a while. I'd ride the last 810NB at 945, usually driven by Bill Pew, and I'd get dropped off at 120th on his way back to the garage. Once the 620 started running, I used that a lot more, not really going to the U district very often.

About the 340... I got to ride that thing every Sunday to church, because I liked Overlake Christian Assembly. I'd do the 620 to 120 to 340, get off at Houghton, ride the church shuttle.

Also, when I was even younger, I used to live in White Center. Obviously I rode the 340 a lot back then, even went to Aurora Village once or twice with my stepfather (who used a wheelchair). Usually we would just go to Southcenter, or ride the 174 down to SeaTac Mall.

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Oh yeah, I went to Mariner HS, 91-93. I lived in the little corner across from Silver Lake. I remember the 418 very well, used it a lot on Saturdays (when it was actually useful), and I remember there being 3 drivers of mention on the route. One got promoted to ATE supervisor, one wore hearing aids (and I think is the one you're referring to wearing cowboy boots), and the other was something of a bus nut, as we would be called back then.

Yes... the guy with hearing aids and cowboy boots. He must have been very senior, to be able to consistently pick what was then just about the only full time non-split shift at Ryder/ATE/First/Whatever. He transitioned to the 510/511/512 when they started up but I haven't seen him in ages.

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Just a heads up, CT 230 service to Darrington is suspended because of the Oso mudslide.

During the press conference this evening, it was explained that there will be service from Darrington (in the morning --the one normal trip) which will use SR-20 to Burlington (Chuckanut P&R) and then on to Arlington ...and the implication that it could continue to Everett. I would assume that there also will be the same normal one back-and-forth trip to and from Darrington in the evening using SR-20.

ETA:

"Emergency" Route 231 will serve Darrington in the interim:

Route 231 - Darrington Emergency Service

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Earlier this evening, I spotted former Cummuity Transit NFI D60 #5828 running through the Pioneer square area of downtown Seattle. I have no idea who owns and operates it. Does anyone have any insight on this unit? Thanks. Sorry if info has been posted previously....

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I saw that bus a couple of years ago and it looked like it was taking people to CenturyLink Field (UW Huskies game IIRC). No indication on the bus anywhere as to who owned it though.

Thanks. And today I managed to capture a couple images of 5828, but like you said, no indication on who owns it that I could see on the left side. I did not get a chance to see the other side of it.

Oh and here are a few photos of CT's restored GMC TDH4517 from earlier today during the Motor Bus Society 2014 Spring convention in Seattle:

260414-7202ct5828.jpg

260414-7203ct5828.jpg

260414-07999ct-tdh4517.jpg

260414-08000ct-tdh4517.jpg

260414-08099ct-tdh4517.jpg

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Earlier this evening, I spotted former Cummuity Transit NFI D60 #5828 running through the Pioneer square area of downtown Seattle. I have no idea who owns and operates it. Does anyone have any insight on this unit? Thanks. Sorry if info has been posted previously....

I have seen it parked outside of KeyArena on 1st a couple times now.

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On two of the coaches running the 201/202 route, I saw this note attached to the front-facing seats adjacent to the elderly/disabled reserved area:

rcXa6XX.jpg

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