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M. Parsons

Remaining GM Classic's

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On 9/26/2017 at 7:02 PM, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

Yes, but I was talking about how they should have kept the 6V92TA option instead of making them S50s, or at least making both of them available.

It was an EPA issue. The 6V92TAs were no longer compliant with the EPA Regulations at the time.

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18 hours ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

My bad. So they replaced it with S50s for this reason?

Yes. The Cummins C8.3 was another option. C8.3 has better takeoff, shame that version was poorly engineered.

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4 minutes ago, benz.citaro.fan said:

Yes. The Cummins C8.3 was another option. C8.3 has better takeoff, shame that version was poorly engineered.

Yes, it does. The S50 has a great engine sound, so there's something going for it!

That engine was in our LFSes, as well. That engine will make a Classic sound almost exactly like a LFS, lol. Also, the S50 Classics that STO had sounded almost exactly like OC Transpo's later Orion V, and Orion VI models. They had the same transmission, the B400R.

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22 hours ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

Yes, it does. The S50 has a great engine sound, so there's something going for it!

That engine was in our LFSes, as well. That engine will make a Classic sound almost exactly like a LFS, lol. Also, the S50 Classics that STO had sounded almost exactly like OC Transpo's later Orion V, and Orion VI models. They had the same transmission, the B400R.

Yeah.

The Classics and LFS you mentioned were from the days when Nova was just starting out, making generally poor-quality products.

I've heard the Nova Classics aren't as reliable as the GM/MCI ones either.

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1 hour ago, benz.citaro.fan said:

Yeah.

The Classics and LFS you mentioned were from the days when Nova was just starting out, making generally poor-quality products.

I've heard the Nova Classics aren't as reliable as the GM/MCI ones either.

Our 1993 Nova Classics rusted a bit more, particularly the ones in the old livery, but they were still reliable, since they still had the same powertrain as our MCIs. Maybe a little less reliable, but still reliable for us.

As for STO, all Classics up until '96 were reliable and they did rust, but the 1996 and 1997 S50s rusted a LOT more and were not as reliable as the earlier ones. They got retired 3-4 years ago. The other Classics are still in service as of now.

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2 hours ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

Our 1993 Nova Classics rusted a bit more, particularly the ones in the old livery, but they were still reliable, since they still had the same powertrain as our MCIs. Maybe a little less reliable, but still reliable for us.

As for STO, all Classics up until '96 were reliable and they did rust, but the 1996 and 1997 S50s rusted a LOT more and were not as reliable as the earlier ones. They got retired 3-4 years ago. The other Classics are still in service as of now.

Yeah, this situation reminds me of the RTC 1994 and 95 Classics. Those had rust issues, despite the 94 ones having 6V92TA/VR731. Mechanically, the 94 ones were good, but not the 95 ones.

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37 minutes ago, benz.citaro.fan said:

Yeah, this situation reminds me of the RTC 1994 and 95 Classics. Those had rust issues, despite the 94 ones having 6V92TA/VR731. Mechanically, the 94 ones were good, but not the 95 ones.

The 1995 STO Classics had the 6V92TA/VR731, and they rusted less than the later Classics. We still have nine '94s and three '95s in service, but one of them is badly rusted, 9516. The rest are fine.

Funny how our STO 1994/1995 Classics lasted longer than the RTC Nova Classics, and were still in better condition. Maybe some Classics were built differently or something? STO had no problems, while RTC had rust issues. Different materials in production, for each transit system's 1994/1995 Classics? Our 1993 OC Classics rusted slightly more because of more mileage, but otherwise, no issues there. 

NovaBus had to have cheaped out in 1996 and 1997, because our 1996/1997 Classics rusted very badly, especially 9602, and four out of five 97s. 9703 is pretty much the only S50 Classic that managed to stay in good condition.

Here's a photo taken in 2009 of STO 9602:

DFAB24C5-0173-4CE8-B2BE-5A541AEE64BA.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

The 1995 STO Classics had the 6V92TA/VR731, and they rusted less than the later Classics. We still have nine '94s and three '95s in service, but one of them is badly rusted, 9516. The rest are fine.

Funny how our STO 1994/1995 Classics lasted longer than the RTC Nova Classics, and were still in better condition. Maybe some Classics were built differently or something? STO had no problems, while RTC had rust issues. Different materials in production, for each transit system's 1994/1995 Classics? Our 1993 OC Classics rusted slightly more because of more mileage, but otherwise, no issues there. 

NovaBus had to have cheaped out in 1996 and 1997, because our 1996/1997 Classics rusted very badly, especially 9602, and four out of five 97s. 9703 is pretty much the only S50 Classic that managed to stay in good condition.

Here's a photo taken in 2009 of STO 9602:

DFAB24C5-0173-4CE8-B2BE-5A541AEE64BA.jpeg

That's really, really rusty. Don't know what else to say.

Also, STO 9130's frame apparently cracked en route.

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9 minutes ago, benz.citaro.fan said:

That's really, really rusty. Don't know what else to say.

Also, STO 9130's frame apparently cracked en route.

Yep. 9111 was an RTC Classic renumbered to 9130 after STO bought it, so not surprised considering that their Classics really rusted.

This is OC's 9326:

8862E8FC-1990-47C5-ACEC-8FC6785DBC40.jpeg

This bus got a red front from the windshield down for this reason. The new livery ones held up better. Most of the old livery ones were nowhere as bad as this, even the Novas. There were other buses that got red fronts, but their rust was much less of a problem than what happened with 9326. There are about five 93s (9313, 9317, 9323, 9325, and 9326) that have red fronts out of 30. Five of the 93s were repainted into the new livery, 9307, 9310, 9312, 9316, and 9321. The rest of them had the complete old livery.

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2 hours ago, benz.citaro.fan said:

Yeah, this situation reminds me of the RTC 1994 and 95 Classics. Those had rust issues, despite the 94 ones having 6V92TA/VR731. Mechanically, the 94 ones were good, but not the 95 ones.

Don't forget RTC's 95 Classics had Cummins C8.3 engines not Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines.

2 hours ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

The 1995 STO Classics had the 6V92TA/VR731, and they rusted less than the later Classics. We still have nine '94s and three '95s in service, but one of them is badly rusted, 9516. The rest are fine.

Funny how our STO 1994/1995 Classics lasted longer than the RTC Nova Classics, and were still in better condition. Maybe some Classics were built differently or something? STO had no problems, while RTC had rust issues. Different materials in production, for each transit system's 1994/1995 Classics? Our 1993 OC Classics rusted slightly more because of more mileage, but otherwise, no issues there. 

NovaBus had to have cheaped out in 1996 and 1997, because our 1996/1997 Classics rusted very badly, especially 9602, and four out of five 97s. 9703 is pretty much the only S50 Classic that managed to stay in good condition.

Here's a photo taken in 2009 of STO 9602:

DFAB24C5-0173-4CE8-B2BE-5A541AEE64BA.jpeg

STLevis also had Detroit Diesel Series 50 Classics from 96-97 they lasted until 2016 I think. The only difference is STLevis' Classics didn't come with A/C like STO's 96-97 Classics. 

BTW 9704 was the last Series 50 Classic in service retiring in early 2014 while the rest retired in 2013.

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9 minutes ago, ONQCBusFan said:

Don't forget RTC's 95 Classics have Cummins C8.3 engine not Detroit Diesel Series 50 engines.

STLevis also had Detroit Diesel Series 50 Classics from 96-97 they lasted until 2016 I think. The only difference is STLevis' Classics didn't come with A/C like STO's 96-97 Classics. 

2016? I thought it was 2015.

Anyways, it seems like that most Nova Classics had problems. I know STO did, RTC did. Some of OC Transpo's 1993 Classics did rust, and some of the rusted ones also got a red front because of it. They were all still reliable though. Anyone know if other Nova Classics from other systems had rust problems also, because STO, OC and RTC are the only ones I can think of.

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Just now, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

2016? I thought it was 2015.

Anyways, it seems like that most Nova Classics had problems. I know STO did, RTC did. Some of OC Transpo's 1993 Classics did rust, and some of the rusted ones also got a red front because of it. They were all still reliable though. Anyone know if other Nova Classics from other systems had rust problems also, because STO, OC and RTC are the only ones I can think of.

The 96s probably retired in 2015

BTW I also wanted to point out that STO had ex-RTC GM Classics from 2008 to 2012.

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1 minute ago, ONQCBusFan said:

The 96s probably retired in 2015

BTW I also wanted to point out that STO had ex-RTC GM Classics from 2008 to 2012.

Thanks for that information.

Our last S50 Classic retired in 2014, if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure it was 9704. So I think the STL ones retired a year later.

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3 minutes ago, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

Thanks for that information.

Our last S50 Classic retired in 2014, if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure it was 9704. So I think the STL ones retired a year later.

That's what I said! Look Above!

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17 minutes ago, ONQCBusFan said:

BTW 9704 was the last Series 50 Classic in service retiring in early 2014 while the rest retired in 2013.

So pretty much the only S50 Classic to survive into 2014!

I could have sworn that the 1996s retired sometime in 2012, did they not?

1 minute ago, ONQCBusFan said:

That's what I said! Look Above!

When I wrote it, I didn't see it. Did you edit your post?

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Just now, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

So pretty much the only S50 Classic to survive into 2014!

I could have sworn that the 1996s retired sometime in 2012, did they not?

Yeah! the STO wiki says they were retired in 2012.

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Just now, ONQCBusFan said:

Yeah! the STO wiki says they were retired in 2012.

Yes, that's what I thought. I remember hearing somewhere that the 1996s retired in 2012, then most of the 97s retired in 2013, then 9704 lasted into 2014.

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Just now, OCTranspo/STO Fan said:

Yes, that's what I thought. I remember hearing somewhere that the 1996s retired in 2012, then most of the 97s retired in 2013, then 9704 lasted into 2014.

Well it was early 2014 it retired like January or February!

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