Surrey Rapid Transit / Surrey Light rail

[buizelbus]

13 hours ago, maege said:

Great, can you point me to what models they have that are compatible with our current lines as I haven't been able to find any?  Also, will they actually be bidding on the proposed Fraser Hwy extension then, and if not, why?

CRRC Guangzhou Line 5/6 trains (different gauge, but that can be fixed)

Credits: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Running_on_the_Xunfeng_Gang_To_Hengsha_section_of_Guangzhou_Metro_Line_6.jpg

 

Sendai Subway 2000 series (Kinki Sharyo)

Credits: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ファイル:Sendai_subway2000.jpg

 

The Toei Oedo Line in Tokyo, which actually uses LIM trains from THREE manufacturers (Hitachi, Nippon Sharyo, Kawasaki) 

  12-000 series (Hitachi/Nippon Sharyo)

  12-600 series (Kawasaki)

Credits: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Model_12-000_of_Toei_Transportation_2.jpg, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Toei-subway12-600.jpg

 

There's even a promo page by the association!

http://www.jametro.or.jp/en/linear/

 

[GORDOOM]

The other tricky part would be replicating the Innovia Metro’s steerable trucks, which are needed to navigate the tight curves on parts of the SkyTrain guideway. Mind you, with no need for traction motors in the trucks, this should be doable.

[tensorflow]

Just to add a bit more to @buizelbus over the compatibility issue.

Innovia Metro runs in the way where the stator is located on the car and rotor is located on the ground. The stator is connected with AC current and will create an electromagnetic field that appears to be moving from the point of view of the rotor. This will induce a current on the ground rotor according to Faraday's law which again will provide a propelling Lorentz force. Since the current on the rotor is induced, there is no need to connect the ground rotor to any power source. Moreover, a simple aluminum metal plate is enough, which is what has been used by the Skytrain network.

Thus it is virtually impossible for any other LIM designs to be "incompatible" to a simple aluminum metal plate. 

 

Systems that may have compatibility issues are those that are running using linear SYNCHRONOUS motor e.g. Shanghai Maglev / Transrapid and Chuo Shinkansen / L0. That's a totally different story as the ground can be seen as either stator or rotor and has to be connected to an external power source.

[8800GTX]

So this is a big one and I will try to summarize it as best as I possibly can.

TransLink releases briefing outlining development of Surrey-Langley SkyTrain work plan.

It is in the Mayors' Council Dec 13 agenda. LINK: https://www.translink.ca/-/media/Doc...c-13-FINAL.PDF

Important things to know:

• Project work to proceed with the aim to start service for the Expo Line: Langley Extension in 2025
• SkyTrain delivery will be 3-4 YEARS SOONER than a Surrey-Langley LRT (was expected to be completed 5 years after an SNG LRT, so that means 2028-29)
• 15-month schedule to fully develop the SkyTrain work plan; 8-month schedule to develop an overall South of Fraser transit strategy
• Draft business case for SkyTrain expected in month 7-9, final business case review & approval expected around month 12
• 8 stations on initial Expo: Langley extension, provision for 1 FUTURE station at Fraser Highway and 148 St.
• TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond wrote to the provincial Deputy Minister Jacquie Dawes to CONFIRM that the province will support the Expo: Langley Extension under the provincial CAMF framework, which as the same as for the other projects.

   

TEXT OF TRANSLINK RESOLUTION TO BE CONSIDERED BY MAYORS' COUNCIL AT DEC 13 MEETING:

Quote

PROPOSED RESOLUTION

That the Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation:

1. Endorse the work plan in this report that directs TransLink to:
   a) proceed immediately with planning and project development work for a SkyTrain on Fraser Highway project. and,
   b) concurrently, initiate a planning process to refresh the South of Fraser rapid transit strategy, consistent with the 10-Year Vision of building 27 km of rapid transit on the three corridors.
2. Endorse the cancellation of the Fraser Highway B-Line in the Phase One Plan, and instead direct the planned resources to improving the 96 B-Line and existing services on Fraser Highway.
3. Receive this report.

1

1

If approved, SkyTrain is a go! 

For discussion on the proposed Fraser B-Line cancellation, I posted more info on the transit service discussion thread:

 

[gdt717]

Not impressed at ALL about the cancellation of the Fraser Hwy B-Line.  The pass-ups are horrid as it is today.  And Skytrain will not be here til 2025 - at best.

[8010]

40 minutes ago, gdt717 said:

Not impressed at ALL about the cancellation of the Fraser Hwy B-Line.  The pass-ups are horrid as it is today.  And Skytrain will not be here til 2025 - at best.

They're not just going to cancel the B-Line and ignore the 502 & 503. TransLink is getting ready to plan out those services to reduce overcrowding along Fraser Highway in the short-term until the Expo Line Extension begins service.

[Pops1719]

6 hours ago, 8010 said:

They're not just going to cancel the B-Line and ignore the 502 & 503. TransLink is getting ready to plan out those services to reduce overcrowding along Fraser Highway in the short-term until the Expo Line Extension begins service.

I hope it's artics.

[Large Cat]

26 minutes ago, popillil said:

I hope it's artics.

Switch to artics and add frequency on the 502, as they did on the 49. People should be satisfied. And it's not so hard to paint bus lanes temporarily.

The only sad thing is the RapidBus livery roll-out might get even screwier in terms of bookouts.

[buizelbus]

9 minutes ago, Large Cat said:

Switch to artics and add frequency on the 502, as they did on the 49. People should be satisfied. And it's not so hard to paint bus lanes temporarily.

The only sad thing is the RapidBus livery roll-out might get even screwier in terms of bookouts.

RapidBus needs to go. It doesn't need to exist, and if TransLink wanted a separate BRT livery, this one is WAY too unpopular. 

[GORDOOM]

4 minutes ago, buizelbus said:

RapidBus needs to go. It doesn't need to exist, and if TransLink wanted a separate BRT livery, this one is WAY too unpopular. 

I don’t think it’s the blue-and-green livery per se that is unpopular. I think the bigger issue is doing away with the B-Line branding. It’s too popular and too strong a brand to throw away.

[Meraki]

On 12/8/2018 at 2:30 PM, GORDOOM said:

I don’t think it’s the blue-and-green livery per se that is unpopular. I think the bigger issue is doing away with the B-Line branding. It’s too popular and too strong a brand to throw away.

Yeah. And if they're running out of numbers, could just go with B1, B2 etc.

[buizelbus]

1 hour ago, Meraki said:

Yeah. And if they're running out of numbers, could just go with B1, B2 etc.

Or just start doing region specific. Example, 399 for 96, 499 for Metrotown, etc.

[cprted]

 

"Mayors' Council votes in favour Surrey SkyTrain, but province won't cover extra cost"

Now we can call the L Line LRT project officially dead. Mayor McCallum is still insisting that an Expo Line extension to Langley can built for the same cost as the LRT project ... Translink disagrees ... 

[GORDOOM]

I’ve said before and I say again: IMO an Expo Line extension to 166 St. or thereabouts is not a waste of effort. I’d rather do a proper job of that than something half-assed.

My question is: do they have plans to get rid of the interline at Columbia, and if so, how? I’d suggest that this needs to be part of any Expo Line extension.

[8010]

41 minutes ago, GORDOOM said:

I’ve said before and I say again: IMO an Expo Line extension to 166 St. or thereabouts is not a waste of effort. I’d rather do a proper job of that than something half-assed.

My question is: do they have plans to get rid of the interline at Columbia, and if so, how? I’d suggest that this needs to be part of any Expo Line extension.

I know this should probably go into the Dreams & Aspirations thread but what the could do is build a third platform at Columbia (with provisions for a fourth should overcrowding become an issue) and have the Millennium Line branch off from Lougheed and end at Columbia every 6 minutes, if this is even possible. The Columbia tunnel would need to be adjusted.

[GORDOOM]

45 minutes ago, 8010 said:

I know this should probably go into the Dreams & Aspirations thread but what the could do is build a third platform at Columbia (with provisions for a fourth should overcrowding become an issue) and have the Millennium Line branch off from Lougheed and end at Columbia every 6 minutes, if this is even possible. The Columbia tunnel would need to be adjusted.

That’s exactly what I scratched on my napkin. It wouldn’t be cheap, but I think it will be necessary sooner or later.

[cleowin]

7 hours ago, cprted said:

 

"Mayors' Council votes in favour Surrey SkyTrain, but province won't cover extra cost"

Now we can call the L Line LRT project officially dead. Mayor McCallum is still insisting that an Expo Line extension to Langley can built for the same cost as the LRT project ... Translink disagrees ... 

Translink wont build it at grade, it’ll be elevated, mccallum believes if built mostly on grade, costs can be reduced.

without closing intersections, at grade isnt ideal except for fleetwood/cloverdale stretch.

[Brando737]

Having SkyTrain at grade and elevated at various spots going up and down would be ridiculous.  I know the wheels don't provide any traction and it's all from the LIM system, but the weather out that way can be colder and icier which may cause some issues unless they heat the track which would be expensive and just another variable that could cause delays.  I'm glad Translink is standing thier ground on having it completely elevated.

As for route structure, keep in mind the Broadway extension would be coming into service at the same time.  The Broadway extension is going to bring more frequency to the Millennium Line so I doubt they will want to have trains going off that line from Lougheed to Columbia.  What I think the best plan might be is to have it how it is now, but two trains to Langley and one to Production.

Onto Columbia station.  I don't think it's possible to change the layout or add another platform due to current infrastructure over and around the station.  There's also that new building planned that will be built even more above the track area.  Why they didn't make it a central platform in the first place is beyond me since the Millennium Line was already a plan for the future when the Expo line was being built, hence both tracks being split east of the station from the beginning.

[Firebrand]

 

14 hours ago, cleowin said:

 

21 hours ago, cprted said:

 

"Mayors' Council votes in favour Surrey SkyTrain, but province won't cover extra cost"

Now we can call the L Line LRT project officially dead. Mayor McCallum is still insisting that an Expo Line extension to Langley can built for the same cost as the LRT project ... Translink disagrees ... 

TransLink wont build it at grade, it’ll be elevated, mccallum believes if built mostly on grade, costs can be reduced.

without closing intersections, at grade isnt ideal except for fleetwood/cloverdale stretch.

It’s McCallum we’re talking here. He’s known for being a cloudcuckoolander.

[tensorflow]

14 hours ago, cleowin said:

Translink wont build it at grade, it’ll be elevated, mccallum believes if built mostly on grade, costs can be reduced.

without closing intersections, at grade isnt ideal except for fleetwood/cloverdale stretch.

Not even for fleetwood - cloverdale, something google map doesn't tell you is that the ground on that stretch have maximum slope of 20%

 

[Express691]

Bumping this thread for the update on the new renderings along Fraser

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/first-look-at-surrey-skytrain-renderings-along-fraser-highway/

[8010]

https://www.translink.ca/About-Us/Media/2019/July/TransLink-releases-new-details-on-Surrey-Langley-SkyTrain.aspx

[8010]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/skytrain-king-george-boulevard-newton-south-of-fraser-refresh-july-2019

I'm not 100% against a third Expo Line branch along King George Boulevard because during peak times the train pattern will still be similar, every 6 minutes to Production Way and every 2-4 minutes to Surrey Central. However, they will need to increase off-peak frequency beyond Columbia or else we'll probably have trains running every 9 minutes depending on the destination (every 3 minutes between Waterfront and Columbia, every 3-6 minutes between Columbia and Surrey Central, every 9 minutes to Production Way, Langley Central, or Newton/Possible White Rock Extension). Hopefully my terrible math made sense. Although the issue of reliability comes to mind.

[8010]

Just out of curiosity, would you rather have an extended branch of the Expo Line along King George Boulevard, ending at Newton Town Centre, with the possibility of a future extension to White Rock and have the 96 (or R1) maintaining service between Surrey Central and Guildford Exchange (possible extension elsewhere), or a completely separate rapid transit line from Guildford to Newton/White Rock along King George Boulevard and 104th Avenue.

[briguychau]

21 minutes ago, 8010 said:

Just out of curiosity, would you rather have an extended branch of the Expo Line along King George Boulevard, ending at Newton Town Centre, with the possibility of a future extension to White Rock and have the 96 (or R1) maintaining service between Surrey Central and Guildford Exchange (possible extension elsewhere), or a completely separate rapid transit line from Guildford to Newton/White Rock along King George Boulevard and 104th Avenue.

Separate rapid transit would make more sense to me. It doesn't look like it'll be easy to make a branch of the Expo going down King George Boulevard, as there are no junctions currently built in between Surrey Central and King George, and the end just past King George station points down Fraser Highway (it'll be a difficult curve that might need to go over the hospital). Also, it is much easier to adjust frequency and capacity on a separate line than if it is just another Expo branch.

The Langley extension could probably build a junction that would not be used for passenger operations, but more for moving trains between lines. That way rolling stock can be shared, and shorter 2/4-car trains can be moved to where they are more useful (e.g. Millennium and new Surrey lines) while Expo runs on exclusively 5-car trains.