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General Route Discussion and History


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57 minutes ago, Transit Fan said:

The Foothills hospital crowd was by far the most vocal and there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with the re-routing of the 20 away from the hospital. The initial proposal to remove the 91 combined with the fact that the NX only stops on 16th Ave thus requiring a long walk to both Lions Park and the hospital was also a tough sell as well.

 

I'm not surprised. Walking around the mall from Lions Park to the NX stop location, especially in the winter, isn't easy for anyone with mobility issues. As for Foothills, it already isn't easy to access by transit due to poor design, and the NX stop is beside what's currently a construction site. Some parts of this redesign will work better when other projects are finished, and some of these changes should wait until then. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/4/2018 at 9:46 AM, Blake M said:

Speaking of the 414, I've always been confused as to why the 414 frequency and hours of service are so low. There's huge potential with that route, say extending it to Marda Loop or MRU, or running the 89 all day and extending that or something. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Edit: realized what chat I was in, we should move any further discussion on this to a different chat

I thought I'd help migrate a discussion to this thread from a different one.

I, too, have been curious about the frequency and span for Line 414.

About a year ago, I sent a note to Calgary Transit asking them if they'd consider improving its frequency to 40 minutes and co-ordinating its schedule with Line 65 during daytime off-peak hours, such that people travelling between SAIT and the Blue Line west leg would get a bus service with 20-minute frequency.

Generally speaking, however, I believe an increased frequency for Line 414 and a longer service span could seriously enhance the grid service pattern Calgary Transit seems so eager to implement. Such an arrangement would mean people going from parts of northwest Calgary to South Calgary, Bankview, Upper Mount Royal or anywhere in the vicinity of 17th Avenue S.W./Lower Mount Royal, could do so without first having to go into the core or divert to a Crowchild Trail bus line.

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17 hours ago, downbeat said:

I thought I'd help migrate a discussion to this thread from a different one.

I, too, have been curious about the frequency and span for Line 414.

About a year ago, I sent a note to Calgary Transit asking them if they'd consider improving its frequency to 40 minutes and co-ordinating its schedule with Line 65 during daytime off-peak hours, such that people travelling between SAIT and the Blue Line west leg would get a bus service with 20-minute frequency.

Generally speaking, however, I believe an increased frequency for Line 414 and a longer service span could seriously enhance the grid service pattern Calgary Transit seems so eager to implement. Such an arrangement would mean people going from parts of northwest Calgary to South Calgary, Bankview, Upper Mount Royal or anywhere in the vicinity of 17th Avenue S.W./Lower Mount Royal, could do so without first having to go into the core or divert to a Crowchild Trail bus line.

Great idea. It would also be cool to see it go directly to Sunalta station (only a two block variation)

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39 minutes ago, downbeat said:

I imagine access to Sunalta can be tricky, due to the configuration of nearby streets. (Line 90 only serves Sunalta directly going WB, for example.)

The old 412 used to use 15th Street, 17th Street, and had a stop EB on 10th Avenue. In fact they left the sign up.

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I wonder how well used a route from say Sandstone or 78 Ave to MRU via Lions Park and 14 St would be. A mix of 89 and 414 but also extended south to MRU.

Also worth pointing out that the upcoming extension of the 90 to Foothills and UofC should provide some additional east-west connectivity for the Beltline area. Although I must admit I'm not a fan of the big one way circular route they decided to use.

Route90.png

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8 minutes ago, Jaymaud0804 said:

Anyone have a link to the 1995 D40LF Retirement Watch page? It doesn't show up when I search it, and I can't seem to find any post from after April, 2007

A few chats from the top on page 2 my dude

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  • 1 month later...

The CT app appears to have leaked the route numbers for the MAX routes. If you search for any of existing route numbers that are changing (e.g. Route 23), the map is already displaying the new route overlapped with the existing route as well as listing all the new stops.

  • For the 306, it's already saying Max Teal Westbrook and Max Teal Douglas Glen so the route number won't be changing.
  • If you search for one of the North Crosstown stations (e.g. Rundleside), it says that the 303 stops there.
  • If you search for "East Hills",  it says the 68 and 307 stop there.

You can't actually search up the new routes yet but all the new stops being introduced appear to be in the system already.

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With all of the emphasis (and soon, marketing) on how MAX provides a higher level of service than BRT, it strikes me as quite odd that the routes are numbered right in with the existing BRTs. Especially the 306. Not a fan - I would have thought they'd at least be in the 310s, for example.

It looks like schedules can be browsed here, just set the date to November 19.

No public release of the new scheduling data yet that I can see.

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Started peeking at non BRT schedules after Nov. 19 … randomly picked a few lines to check out and here's what I found. Lemme know if you see any errors. I went cross-eyed after a little while. (If you're not a fan of irregular frequencies, brace yourself!)

1 • Bowness - Forest Lawn
Weekday — peak 13 or better (currently 15 or better); midday 15 (currently 12); evening 18-20 (currently 20); late night 18-35 (currently 20-35)
Saturday — morning 24-25 (currently 30); midday 19 (currently 20); evening 18-19 (currently 30); late night 25-35 (currently 30-35); very late night EB trips from Bowness to city centre discontinued
Sunday — morning 24-25 (currently 30-60); midday 19 (currently 20); evening 18-19 (currently 30); late night 25-35 (currently 30-35)

8 • North Pointe - U of C
Weekday — peak 5-10, peak hours start earlier in a.m. (currently 5-10); midday 20 (currently 20); evening 25 (currently 25); late night 25 (currently 30); late night service extended
Weekend — all day 25 (currently 25)

9 • Dalhousie - Chinook
Weekday — early morning 20-30 (currently no service); peak 12 or better (currently 15 or better); midday 20 (currently 30); evening and late night 30 (currently 30); late night service extended NB from Foothills Medical Centre
Weekend — all day 27 (currently 30); early morning and late night service extended

19 • 16th Avenue North
Weekday — peak 17-23 (currently 20); midday 30 (currently 30); evening/late night 27 (currently 25); earlier a.m. start both directions, late night service extended
Weekend — 30 all day (currently 20 morning and midday; 25-30 evening and late night); later a.m. starts both directions, late night service curtailed

20 • Heritage/Northmount
Weekday — peak 11 or better (currently 11 or better); midday 20 (currently 15); evening and late night 30 (currently evening 20-25, late night 30)
Weekend — morning 30 (currently 30); midday 20 (currently 20); evening and late night 20-30 (currently 20-30)

90 • Bridgeland - U of C
Weekday — peak 21-24 (currently 25-27); midday 30-32 (currently 30-35); evening 32; evening service extended
Weekend — all day 32 (currently 34-36)

91 • Foothills Medical Centre - Lions Park
Weekday — all day 21 (currently peak 13-19; midday 25; evening/late night 23-25)
Weekend — all day 21 (currently 25)

104 • Sunnyside - U of C
Weekday — Similar service frequency, late night service extended
Weekend — Similar service frequency, late night service curtailed

 

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2 hours ago, downbeat said:

Started peeking at non BRT schedules after Nov. 19 … randomly picked a few lines to check out and here's what I found. Lemme know if you see any errors. I went cross-eyed after a little while. (If you're not a fan of irregular frequencies, brace yourself!)

1 • Bowness - Forest Lawn
Weekday — peak 12 or better (currently 12 or better); midday 15 (currently 12); evening 20 (currently 20); late night 18-35 (currently 20-35)
Saturday — morning 24-25 (currently 30); midday 19 (currently 20); evening 18-19 (currently 30); late night 25-35 (currently 30-35); very late night EB trips from Bowness to city centre discontinued
Sunday — morning 24-25 (currently 30-60); midday 19 (currently 20); evening 18-19 (currently 30); late night 25-35 (currently 30-35)

8 • North Pointe - U of C
Weekday — peak 5-10, peak hours start earlier in a.m. (currently 5-10); midday 20 (currently 20); evening 25 (currently 25); late night 25 (currently 30); late night service extended
Weekend — all day 25 (currently 25)

9 • Dalhousie - Chinook
Weekday — early morning 20-30 (currently no service); peak 12 or better (currently 15 or better); midday 20 (currently 30); evening and late night 30 (currently 30); late night service extended NB from Foothills Medical Centre
Weekend — all day 27 (currently 30); early morning and late night service extended

19 • 16th Avenue North
Weekday — peak 17-23 (currently 20); midday 30 (currently 30); evening/late night 27 (currently 25); earlier a.m. start both directions, late night service extended
Weekend — 30 all day (currently 20 morning and midday; 25-30 evening and late night); later a.m. starts both directions, late night service curtailed

20 • Heritage/Northmount
Weekday — peak 11 or better (currently 11 or better); midday 20 (currently 15); evening and late night 30 (currently evening 20-25, late night 30)
Weekend — morning 30 (currently 30); midday 20 (currently 20); evening and late night 20-30 (currently 20-30)

90 • Bridgeland - U of C
Weekday — peak 21-24 (currently 25-27); midday 30-32 (currently 30-35); evening 32; evening service extended
Weekend — all day 32 (currently 34-36)

91 • Foothills Medical Centre - Lions Park
Weekday — all day 21 (currently peak 13-19; midday 25; evening/late night 23-25)
Weekend — all day 21 (currently 25)

104 • Sunnyside - U of C
Weekday — Similar service frequency, late night service extended
Weekend — Similar service frequency, late night service curtailed

 

So basically the information that is posted in the latest publication on the transit service reviews website...specifically slides 16-43

https://www.calgary.ca/engage/Documents/BRT_Program/Bus Review 2018 What We Heard Presentation.pdf

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And here are a few more lines.

23 • 52nd Street East (compared to current Route 23)
Weekday — peak 12 or better (currently 12 or better); midday 20 (currently 20); evening and late night 27-29 (currently 30); late night service extended significantly
Weekend — all day 27-29 (currently 30); late night service extended significantly

24 • Ogden
Weekday — peak 16 (currently 14-19); midday 30 (currently 30); evening/late night 27-30 (currently 40)
Weekend — 25-30 all day (currently 30 morning/midday/afternoon, 40 evening/late night)

31 • Dalhousie - Lions Park
Weekday — Similar service frequency and span
Weekend — 30 all day (currently 35); morning service extended slightly

38 • Brentwood - Temple (compared to current Circle Route 72/73)
Weekday — early morning 15-22 (currently 24); peak 13 or better (currently 12); midday 16-19 (currently 20); evening/late night 23-29 (currently 30)
Weekend — all day 28-30 (currently 30)

42 • Marlborough
Weekday — early morning 14 (currently 17-23); peak 10-11 (currently 15); midday 20 (currently 30); evening 14-21 (currently 30); late night 35 (currently 30); early morning service extended
Weekend — morning/afternoon/evening 20; late night 35 (currently all day 27-35)

43 • McKnight - Chinook (compared to current Circle Route 72/73)
Weekday — early morning 22-31 (currently 12-41); peak 12-15 (currently 12-15); midday 20-21 (currently 20); evening/late night 28-30 (currently 30-32); SB early morning service extended, SB late night service curtailed slightly
Weekend — all day 27-33 (currently 30)

49 • Forest Heights
Weekday — early morning 12-14 (currently 30); peak 9-15 (currently 23-25); midday 18-20 (currently 61); evening 20 (currently no service); late night 35 (currently no service)
Weekend — morning/afternoon/evening 20; late night 33 (currently no weekend service)

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18 hours ago, downbeat said:

On the subject of irregular frequencies: what operational benefits come from running buses on an 18 or 19 minute frequency vs 20, for example?

Suppose you want a route to have 20 minute frequency. To get this, it will need to be able to complete a round trip by something divisible by 20. e.g. 20, 40, 60 minutes. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume this route can't be interlined with any other routes.

Unfortunately, not all routes can end up being divisible by 20. Suppose our example route takes about 50 minutes to finish a round trip. Their first option would be to bump the round trip time up to 60 minutes by distributing 10 extra minutes of layover time at various stops along the route. This is often done for routes that travel on some heavily congested corridors.

But for our example, let's assume our route isn't so busy and having a dedicated 10 minutes of sitting around isn't very efficient. Their other option would be to have a round trip time of 51 or 54 minutes which would give you 17 and 18 minute frequency respectively. The pro's of the latter option is that the bus isn't spending as much time needlessly idling and running more frequently. The downside of course is we don't get a nice "even" frequency like 10, 15, 20.

This is why you often see multiple routes being interlined. If route A is a 20 minute loop, and route B is a 40 minute loop, you can't have 30 minute frequency. But if a bus bounces between servicing route A and B, that effectively creates a 60 minute trip allowing both routes to run every 30 minutes.

 

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Okay, one more batch of comparisons!

57 • McCall Way - Monterey Park (compared to current Route 57 on McCall Way)
Weekday — peak 18 or better (currently 20 or better); midday 18 (currently 25-35); evening/late night 21-34 (currently 30-34)
Weekend — morning/afternoon/early evening 22-25; late evening/late night 33-34 (currently all day 30)

58 • 44th Street S.E. (compared to current Route 57 in Erin Woods)
Weekday — peak 15 (currently 22 or better); midday 30 (currently 25-35); evening/late night 30 (currently 30)
Weekend — all day 30 (currently 30-33); extended morning service on Sunday

67 • Memorial Drive (compared to current Route 45 in Abbeydale)
Weekday — peak 15 (currently 15); midday 30 (currently 30); evening/late night 30 (currently 30)
Weekend — all day 32 (currently 26-30)

87 • Applewood (compared to current Route 45 in Applewood)
Weekday — peak 15 (currently 15); midday 30 (currently 30); evening/late night 30 (currently 30)
Weekend — all day 30 (currently 30); late evening service curtailed slightly Saturday, curtailed more Sunday

127 • Franklin Industrial - Maryvale (compared to current 50/51 and 127)
Weekday — peak 30 (currently 14-28); midday 30 (currently 28-61); evening/late night in Maryvale only 35 (currently 30, EB only)
Weekend (Maryvale only) — morning/afternoon/evening 35; no service late night (currently all day 30, EB only)

135 • Erin Woods/36th Street S.E. (compared to current Route 125)
Weekday — peak only 15, bidirectional service (currently 2 departures a.m. to city centre, 1 departure p.m to Erin Woods)

155 • West Dover/Forest Lawn (compared to currently Route 26)
Weekday — peak 22 (currently 15); midday 33 (currently 30); evening 33 (currently 30); late night 33 (currently 45)
Weekend — all day 33 (currently 30); late night service curtailed

302 • BRT Southeast
Weekday — early morning 20 (currently 14-23); peak 10-15 (currently 10-15); midday 24-26 (currently 26); evening 25 (currently 26)
Weekend — all day 25 (currently 26)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was digging through some of my transit memorabilia and found this: A Route 3 and 53 Information Card from June 1979. 

I was also given a set of old Calgary Transit passes from the 1970s and 1980s along with this Information Card. I'll post them in the near future.

15407807355186781479790694856685.jpg

15407807868212460049451935096647.jpg

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Barely on here anymore... but since I've moved to Calgary, thought I should start posting again, albeit maybe once every few weeks :P

I'm just wondering, so what was the history of transit service on MacLeod Trail, before the CTrain was built? Particularly between the time Chinook mall was built, to 1981? And more importantly, how did the 81 whittle down from full-sized bus service (from what if I remember from posts years ago), to shuttle service which cuts itself off after 6pm, and is non-existent/impractical on weekends? I'm just curious, both because it would be a massive help to haul groceries on one bus ride home (taxis too much, and try lugging 50 lbs of groceries down the stairs at Southland, then up/down Heritage), and I've also seen quite the number of people walking along MacLeod, especially during the evenings. Plus anyone who lives in apartments on MacLeod... just seems like a perfect fit, along with night workers/businesses as well, to have at least hourly bus service at night.

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If you're looking for a traditional route map for the new routes, they're now available on the website. These are the regular style ones with timepoints and not the rider's guide ones on the route changes page.

If the route number is an existing one (e.g. 23), there's an option to view the new map directly on the site.

If it's a new route number, you can change out the number in the url. Example for Route 67: http://www.calgarytransit.com/sites/default/files/route/067_nov_2018.pdf

For the MAX orange, it would be max_orange_nov_2018.pdf.

 

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 3:10 AM, armorand said:

… what was the history of transit service on MacLeod Trail, before the CTrain was built? Particularly between the time Chinook mall was built, to 1981?

This doesn't fully answer your question … but I took the liberty of attaching below a screen grab from a transit map (circa 1975) available online from the Calgary Public Library.

You'll see Route 10 turning off Macleod near Chinook Centre to serve Fairview and Acadia, much as the modern Route 10 does today. You'll also see on this map what were then known as "feeder routes" (solid and dotted dark blue) going as far south as Southland and Blue Arrow services (light blue) as far south as Heritage before those bus lines turn off Macleod to serve other neighbourhoods.

(I must say I have no concept of how Calgary Transit operated feeder routes at that time …)

Macleod Trail 1975.png

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Transit55 now has block data for the new routes starting Nov 19.

https://transit55.ca/calgary/block_explorer?id=307&date=2018-11-19

At the MAX info session I was at, they did mention that a lot of the new routes were quite conservative in their scheduling. 

But damn, Max Purple has some crazy long layovers on weekdays. It's possible that they really tightened the schedule and put all the slack time at the two ends but 13 minutes to kill at East Hills during peak seems kind of crazy. Weekends are 6 minutes at East Hills and only 1 minute at Brookfield. Probably why they went with 22 minute frequency weekday midday to get in some extra time at both ends.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

It appears adjustments have already been made in some schedules ahead of the November 19 bus network's launch. Here's what I've spotted so far. Info below is copied and pasted from the schedules generated by the Calgary Transit website's schedule tool. Punctuation added for clarity, where necessary.

9: Starting Monday, November 19, the following late night trips have been added on weekdays: 12:40 a.m. from Chinook Station to Dalhousie Station; 1:10 a.m. from Chinook Station to Bow Trail at 33 Street S.W.; 12:14 a.m. and 12:45 a.m. from Dalhousie Station to Chinook Station

20: A 6:04 a.m. trip has been added from Northmount Drive at 14 Street N.W. on Saturdays and Sundays. The 6:02 a.m. trip from Heritage Station on Saturdays and Sundays has been changed to leave at 6:10 a.m.

23: A weekday 4:00 a.m. trip from McKenzie Terminal has been added to Saddletowne. Weekday 4:00 a.m. and 4:30 a.m. trips have been added from Saddletowne to McKenzie Terminal. 

38: The weekday 2:59 p.m. trip has been adjusted to leave at 3:05 p.m. to help students. [Site does not specify, but I presume this is referring to a WB departure from stop 5742 at 2:58 p.m.]

135: The weekday 6:00 p.m. and 6:15 p.m. trips from Marlborough Station have been extended to westbound Erinwoods Blvd S.E. 

Footnote from Transit for all these changes: "Please note, these new trips will not be available on our website, App, Teleride and Teletext until sometime in December."

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