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TTC Nova LFS orders


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Junk? The TTC didn't like them because they were different and complicated. But as we all know articulated buses are more complicated as compared to 40'ers and will require more maintenance.

I don't think it's accurate to claim that the GM artics were any worse than what other manufactures were offering at the time. I think we can say with certainty that the GM artic was a much better bus (for many reasons) then the Ikarus was.

They were junk - the TTCs own reports at the time referred to them as much. They used a ton of proprietary parts where off-the-shelf parts were available, had a host of structural issues, and cost more to maintain than the Orions which followed them.

Dan

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They were junk - the TTCs own reports at the time referred to them as much. They used a ton of proprietary parts where off-the-shelf parts were available, had a host of structural issues, and cost more to maintain than the Orions which followed them.

Dan

Maybe so but the GM artics would have out lasted the Ikaris had we kept them. HSR and Mississauga Transit both managed to keep them running longer than the Ikarus' in Toronto or Ottawa.

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Maybe so but the GM artics would have out lasted the Ikaris had we kept them. HSR and Mississauga Transit both managed to keep them running longer than the Ikarus' in Toronto or Ottawa.

Not so. A cursory look at the Wiki shows that Missisauga retired their GM artics in 1997. Ottawa had Ikaruses running until 2003.

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Not so. A cursory look at the Wiki shows that Missisauga retired their GM artics in 1997. Ottawa had Ikaruses running until 2003.

Keep in mind that the Ikarus' that Ottawa ran until 2003 were from 1987. The GM artics Mississauga ran were 1982 units.

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Thanks for the link. While the Commission still officially needs to approve it, I only see that as a formality and it's pretty much a done deal. I'm surprised they went ahead and increased the order, my understanding was that the TTC would evaluate the first order of 27 and if they were satisfactory with them in service the next batch would be ordered.

The report is also interesting in that it specifically states routes: 25 Don Mills 29 Dufferin, 36 Finch West. These routes at peak right now require 107 buses; if we assume a 15% spare ratio that leaves 123 required. This is also assuming the number of buses on the route won't be decreased due to the higher capacity of the artics, so there's got to be other routes the artics are going onto (conveniently that would be the entire first order).

Now onto the inevitable speculation of allocation - all 3 routes are out of different divisions (25 at Eglinton, 29 at Wilson, 36 at Arrow). I don't see artics going to Eglinton especially with its outdoor storage, and I don't see Birchmount being able to handle that many artics. The next closest division for the 25 would be Wilson. I've also heard rumours that artics won't go to Arrow and the 36 will change divisions, of which Wilson is easily the closest.

The finch west 36 will not change division because arrow and wilson are both senior division and wilson has no routes that makes sense to switch with arrow

so the 36 finch west stays plus back in the day arrow had the orion bendy buses

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The finch west 36 will not change division because arrow and wilson are both senior division and wilson has no routes that makes sense to switch with arrow

so the 36 finch west stays plus back in the day arrow had the orion bendy buses

At TTC there is no such thing as a 'senior' devision. Regardless, the TTC allocates routes to divisions based on the proximity of the route to the division, not how old the division is or the average seniority of the drivers at that division.

Some routes that could be transferred from Wilson to Arrow include the 106 (9 buses) and 196 (23 buses). I've also heard plenty of recent rumours that Arrow will swap the 35 (33 buses) to Mount Dennis for the 41 (26 buses) which gives 39 buses to Arrow, roughly the same amount that the 36 (42 buses) requires.

Those 60ft lifts at Arrow haven't been used in two decades; who's to say they are still working properly? If you're going to argue that availability of lifts is the main reason to put the artics at Arrow, then there's a much stronger argument to base the artics out of Mount Dennis, which opened less than 5 years ago and has lifts capable of handling 60ft artics.

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The finch west 36 will not change division because arrow and wilson are both senior division and wilson has no routes that makes sense to switch with arrow

so the 36 finch west stays plus back in the day arrow had the orion bendy buses

the commission will do anything they see fit.
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the commission will do anything they see fit.

That's it, you bitchslap that opinion. Have you reached the century mark yet?

All that will likely be necessary with a lot of the lifts is servicing them and reinspecting them for use. And in the event that they need parts ordered in, worst case scenario, they send them to a sister division for maintenance and inspection. Simple as that.

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TTC regularly checks there hoist. So even though the extra hoist wasn't used in 10 years, TTC will bring them up to date. Queensway got new hoist a few yers back I believe, including the 60ft hoist which is really just an extra hoist in the same bay.

TTC is not going to use something that hasn't been used in 10+ years now. And with 153 of them coming TTC is obviously well aware of the need of hoist.

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I can only speak for Malvern, but the artic hoists need replacement badly.

One pit is to be filled in, and a new 3 post hoist put in its place. The other 3 post hoists are to be replaced as well.

Following the replacement of the 4 existing hoists and the addition of the one, the 12 40 foot versions are to be done, as they are coming to the end of their service lifespan.

Portable wheel hoists will be used in the interim. Which, as the name implies, are portable. They can be deployed anywhere, provided the floor is level and strong enough, and there's overhead clearance.

Malvern already has 2 sets of 4, and they can easily be grouped into 2 sets of 6, if there are any spares in the commission.

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At TTC there is no such thing as a 'senior' devision. Regardless, the TTC allocates routes to divisions based on the proximity of the route to the division, not how old the division is or the average seniority of the drivers at that division.

Some routes that could be transferred from Wilson to Arrow include the 106 (9 buses) and 196 (23 buses). I've also heard plenty of recent rumours that Arrow will swap the 35 (33 buses) to Mount Dennis for the 41 (26 buses) which gives 39 buses to Arrow, roughly the same amount that the 36 (42 buses) requires.

Those 60ft lifts at Arrow haven't been used in two decades; who's to say they are still working properly? If you're going to argue that availability of lifts is the main reason to put the artics at Arrow, then there's a much stronger argument to base the artics out of Mount Dennis, which opened less than 5 years ago and has lifts capable of handling 60ft artics.

Yes i have heard of the silly rumor of the 35 for the 41 but i hope it doesnt happen because jane is mainstay of arrow and arrow would lose one or two of its bluenight . Jane to arrow is like dufferin 29nis wilson it hard to see the route out of s different division

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Maybe so but the GM artics would have out lasted the Ikaris had we kept them. HSR and Mississauga Transit both managed to keep them running longer than the Ikarus' in Toronto or Ottawa.

Great, they would have outlasted them. At what cost though?

Dan

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They were junk - the TTCs own reports at the time referred to them as much. They used a ton of proprietary parts where off-the-shelf parts were available, had a host of structural issues, and cost more to maintain than the Orions which followed them.

Slightly OT, but I wonder why GMDD would have used proprietary parts on these buses? Everything but the articulation mechanism and any connections between the two sides should have been off a standard New Look bus.

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Slightly OT, but I wonder why GMDD would have used proprietary parts on these buses? Everything but the articulation mechanism and any connections between the two sides should have been off a standard New Look bus.

I'm hardly an expert on bus mechanicals, but the fact that those were frankenbuses with "Classic" fronts and "New look" sides does imply that they weren't off the shelf designs even after the articulation was taken into account.

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Slightly OT, but I wonder why GMDD would have used proprietary parts on these buses? Everything but the articulation mechanism and any connections between the two sides should have been off a standard New Look bus.

Not to mentioned, when Mississauga had them, back in 87 one driver was making a turn, it caused a huge jackknifed and it locked up! So much so, they had to do major repairs on all of their artic joint to set the mechanism working again when the driver turns the steering.

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Slightly OT, but I wonder why GMDD would have used proprietary parts on these buses? Everything but the articulation mechanism and any connections between the two sides should have been off a standard New Look bus.

You'd have to ask GMD about that. For instance, artics were not completely uncommon in Europe at that point and yet they still felt the need to design their own joint section rather than using a design already in use elsewhere.

Dan

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Yes i have heard of the silly rumor of the 35 for the 41 but i hope it doesnt happen because jane is mainstay of arrow and arrow would lose one or two of its bluenight . Jane to arrow is like dufferin 29nis wilson it hard to see the route out of s different division

A 35 for 41 swap won't happen until the Eglinton LRT is up and running in order to take some 32s off the road. One division can't handle two of the biggest routes in the city. So bascially it won't happen.

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A 35 for 41 swap won't happen until the Eglinton LRT is up and running in order to take some 32s off the road. One division can't handle two of the biggest routes in the city. So bascially it won't happen.

Malvern has Steeles East, Finch East, Sheppard East and York Mills and they're doing just fine.

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The purchased of the buses has been deferred to March meeting.

When the buses go into service, they will be using the POP system for all door operation. Time to hire enforcement officers.

South Carolina is taking delivery for a few of Nova artic's

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