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The Confederation Line

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From my understanding once the Confederation line opens just before that (I'm, assuming it'll co-anside with either Spring or Summer schedule changes)that their will be a major over haul of routes especial those in the Eastern & south party of the city.

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3 minutes ago, MCIBUS said:

From my understanding once the Confederation line opens just before that (I'm, assuming it'll co-anside with either Spring or Summer schedule changes)that their will be a major over haul of routes especial those in the Eastern & south party of the city.

Great :'( two transfers becomes three. Who does this line benefit anyway. If you don't live on the line itself all it does is add a transfer 

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1 hour ago, Transitfan39 said:

during my last day in Ottawa I spotted a big hole near Laurier and I asked the driver if that's the eastern tunnel for light rail and he said it was.... does anyone know if the machine finished the tunnel from one end to the other?

Work is ongoing between Parlement and Rideau Stns. 

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1 hour ago, shadow21 said:

This may be a stupid question but once the confederation line starts up what will happen to the bus routes that parallel the new line for most of its route (87,95,96,97). Will they be split in two or left as is.

It will be announced in late June, the proposed new route design

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2 hours ago, shadow21 said:

Great :'( two transfers becomes three. Who does this line benefit anyway. If you don't live on the line itself all it does is add a transfer 

The line is much faster, more comfortable, and more reliable than the bus routes it is replacing.

For someone going from say, Orleans to downtown, taking the express bus from their neighbourhood to Blair, then transferring onto LRT for the rest of the trip downtown will be much faster than just sitting on the bus even with the transfer, because the train will get from Blair to downtown much faster than the bus did. The train zips under downtown in a fast tunnel, whereas the buses have to sit at traffic lights along Albert and Slater. Even outside of downtown... the old Transitway slowed down a lot around places like Hurdman or Tunney's because of the sheer volume of buses going through and in the case of Hurdman, all the stop signs around the station.

Also, in the afternoon, right now, waiting for a bus at Albert/Slater is unpleasant. You have to stand around in overcrowded platforms with people craning their necks to try to get THEIR bus out of dozens and watching other buses go by.. and when your bus does get there, it has to stop twice half the time--once at the back of the queue and again at the front because of people who didn't see it the first time. With the new system, when you're leaving downtown, every train is your train, and then you wait for your specific bus in a large, sheltered bus transfer station with designated platforms for each route. Much more pleasant experience.

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26 minutes ago, 1overcosc said:

The line is much faster, more comfortable, and more reliable than the bus routes it is replacing.

For someone going from say, Orleans to downtown, taking the express bus from their neighbourhood to Blair, then transferring onto LRT ...

I agree with your entire post. I think it's hard to understand that transfers don't matter that much. 

Indeed it's been proven again and again that with good frequent service it can be quicker and more reliable.

The only worry is that OC is not given the necessary budget to provide that frequent local bus service to connect to the LRT. This is where citizens need to put pressure on city council and the mayor to ensure the funding is there. Wouldn't hurt to do the same with our MPP's.

Avoiding that awful Transitway dance downtown is a huge benefit and time saver for users and OC.

 

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I agree there are many advantages to LTR replacing the transit way but I wont be great until the LTR is expanded into the suburbs. I am concerned about the bottleneck that is going to occur at Tunny's when the first stage of the LTR opens and all of the west end buses end there. The top level of the station seems already crowded and there are not a lot of bus routes right now out there (16,176,86,159). Any idea how they are going to reconfigure it once stage 1 is complete?  

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They are now hiring Light Rail instructors to teach the people how to drive the Light Rail trains on the City of Ottawa website, attached is job posting

City_of_Ottawa_JobPoster.pdf

City_of_Ottawa_JobPoster.pdf

City_of_Ottawa_JobPoster.pdf

City_of_Ottawa_JobPoster.pdf

City_of_Ottawa_JobPoster.pdf

City_of_Ottawa_JobPoster.pdf

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On 5/27/2016 at 0:53 AM, shadow21 said:

I agree there are many advantages to LTR replacing the transit way but I wont be great until the LTR is expanded into the suburbs. I am concerned about the bottleneck that is going to occur at Tunny's when the first stage of the LTR opens and all of the west end buses end there. The top level of the station seems already crowded and there are not a lot of bus routes right now out there (16,176,86,159). Any idea how they are going to reconfigure it once stage 1 is complete?  

The construction going on north of the current station is for the future bus terminal, expected to be completed for the summer booking (along with the re-opening of the access to the Westboro-bound Transitway). Once that opens, the old station will be demolished.

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Going through the Twitter feed from various media reporters that I follow: The Province of Ontario has just announced funding for Stage 2 of LRT extension to Bayshore, Baseline, Orleans/Trim, and Trillium Line Extension to the south to Bowesville including a spur line into the Airport (with the spur line provided at half-funding). 

Keep an eye out for media articles. 

 

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52 minutes ago, JCL said:

Going through the Twitter feed from various media reporters that I follow: The Province of Ontario has just announced funding for Stage 2 of LRT extension to Bayshore, Baseline, Orleans/Trim, and Trillium Line Extension to the south to Bowesville including a spur line into the Airport (with the spur line provided at half-funding). 

Keep an eye out for media articles. 

 

Here's a link to the announcement from the provincial government :

https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2016/06/ontario-committing-more-than-1-billion-for-light-rail-transit-in-ottawa.html

I am really happy with this announcement and the funding. 

Going to the airport of course was necessary not just for travellers but workers as well. I love the rest as well it make sense and provide greater connectivity to the entire city.

I am concerned about this propensity to needlessly stretch out what is an even simpler project than stage 1. My concern is that there will be an election. However considering that this stage 2 will affect most ridings in Ottawa it's probably safe no matter who is in government at Queen's Park. 

Still it will take as many years as the Swiss took for the Gotthard a project of considerable complexity. 

I am however grateful it's happening at all. 

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Here is an article that details that both the federal and provincial governments are providing one billion dollars each towards Stage 2:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-light-rail-phase-two-ontario-funding-1.3614386

12 minutes ago, chimo said:

Here's a link to the announcement from the provincial government :

https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2016/06/ontario-committing-more-than-1-billion-for-light-rail-transit-in-ottawa.html

I am really happy with this announcement and the funding. 

Going to the airport of course was necessary not just for travellers but workers as well. I love the rest as well it make sense and provide greater connectivity to the entire city.

I am concerned about this propensity to needlessly stretch out what is an even simpler project than stage 1. My concern is that there will be an election. However considering that this stage 2 will affect most ridings in Ottawa it's probably safe no matter who is in government at Queen's Park. 

Still it will take as many years as the Swiss took for the Gotthard a project of considerable complexity. 

I am however grateful it's happening at all. 

It is very nice that the airport extension is included considering the only route that services the airport 7 days/week is the 97. Gets people to downtown in 30 minutes with minimal interaction with traffic. Though rail is the more comfortable path to get from A to B in my opinion. 

Hopefully OC Transpo will still retain some buses for the detours required especially for the western portion of the line (Tunney's Pasture to Lincoln Fields and Lincoln Fields to Baseline). Once Stage 2 is done, then they can start reducing the reliance of buses feeding the trunk (90 series routes) and distribute them onto the feeder routes feeding into the stations.

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5 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

 Though rail is the more comfortable path to get from A to B in my opinion. 

Indeed it is and while it's an indirect connection from centretown it will be easy and fast  am looking forward to it.

 

5 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Hopefully OC Transpo will still retain some buses for the detours required especially for the western portion of the line (Tunney's Pasture to Lincoln Fields and Lincoln Fields to Baseline). Once Stage 2 is done, then they can start reducing the reliance of buses feeding the trunk (90 series routes) and distribute them onto the feeder routes feeding into the stations.

I wouldn't be concerned about OC having enough buses for the detour and building phase of stage 2.

The issue becomes what next? 

I agree that one of the objectives of the O-Train system should be to reduce reliance on buses for long-distance travel, however it should not mean an overall reduction in the fleet. Which our mayor wants.

We need improvements on local routes and we should be creative. 

Outside the core there are many routes that do not require your standard 40 foot bus. Smaller buses should be bought and used. BC Transit has used them for many years. 

I understand the need for flexibility, but now that your 40 foot costs a minimum of 560 000$ that flexibility has a cost. 

For the price of one 40 foot you can buy a lot of 75000$ mini-bus. 

OC has been rightly criticized for years about abusing interlining. Sending buses from one end of the city to the other destroy reliability and increase costs. 

Once stage 2 is completed, let's keep drivers and buses within one area. Service should be frequent enough that you don't have time to send buses to the other side of town. 

Can you say 10 minutes or less network? 

The concept works and has done wonders. 

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Well it looks like Phase 2 might be going a head. Assuming the feds pony up the cash and that come next Provincial elewction the Liberals get inb again because if the PC's get in they,don't have to honour that 1 billion dolarr commitment to LRT.

 

It also appears thatr the KLRT will be going to the Airport & Trim road?

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8 hours ago, chimo said:

Indeed it is and while it's an indirect connection from centretown it will be easy and fast  am looking forward to it.

 

I wouldn't be concerned about OC having enough buses for the detour and building phase of stage 2.

The issue becomes what next? 

I agree that one of the objectives of the O-Train system should be to reduce reliance on buses for long-distance travel, however it should not mean an overall reduction in the fleet. Which our mayor wants.

We need improvements on local routes and we should be creative. 

Outside the core there are many routes that do not require your standard 40 foot bus. Smaller buses should be bought and used. BC Transit has used them for many years. 

I understand the need for flexibility, but now that your 40 foot costs a minimum of 560 000$ that flexibility has a cost. 

For the price of one 40 foot you can buy a lot of 75000$ mini-bus. 

OC has been rightly criticized for years about abusing interlining. Sending buses from one end of the city to the other destroy reliability and increase costs. 

Once stage 2 is completed, let's keep drivers and buses within one area. Service should be frequent enough that you don't have time to send buses to the other side of town. 

Can you say 10 minutes or less network? 

The concept works and has done wonders. 

They aren't very likely to use smaller buses since then it gets difficult considering yard space, parts required for repairs and mechanics repairing them if there are any mechanical defects. Along with labour costs which the more buses that have to run, the more operators needed to drive them. 

Lets take an example: The 95 is around 90 minutes long (Trim to Barrhaven Town Centre) and requires 9 articulated buses to maintain 10 minute service. Two way direction would mean 2x the buses to cover both directions with the same frequency with the same level of service. If it is replaced with 40 ft buses instead, they would need at least 2x the buses and 5 minute frequency to replicate which means having 2x the transit operators which gets expensive running the service. 

Now, the 95 is the workhorse which carries around 66,000 on an average weekday and won't run a 40 ft bus unless it is a tripper or peak periods. This is just to demonstration the cost of labour which is often the biggest cost for companies which makes up a lot of some companies budgets. 

When you run shorter buses, they would have to run more frequent buses which in turn requires more people to drive them. The average salary is $60,000/year times lets say 18 operators running with 60 ft buses, it would be 1.08 million dollars annually. That is before including benefits and pension contributions which could increase the total a bit higher. If there are 2x needed for the 40 ft operation, it would easily total 2.16 million dollars in compensation alone to pay those transit operators. 

I can understand the interlining issue which buses should stay in one area. Lets say if the driver does a route in Kanata, they should really give them just one route to do and just do their trips and in the evenings/Sundays, consider interlining with another route which is very common in many systems having one bus do two routes from the same station. I really think the interlining issue having to go across town is the most difficult since most of the major operations are based at St. Laurent garage and sometimes Industrial. Merivale and Pinecrest are the peak hour garages which I think could be better utilized to support their own specific geographical areas instead of relying heavily on St. Laurent. 

The "frequent service network" outside of peak hours I think is feasible which they can design some routes that can run every 15 minutes or better 7 days a week. Which without the passengers feeding from the feeder routes into the main line, it would be difficult which the model I am referring to is the "trunk and feeder system." The trunk would be the Confederation line and the feeder is the routes that feed into the stations. 

 

1 hour ago, MCIBUS said:

Well it looks like Phase 2 might be going a head. Assuming the feds pony up the cash and that come next Provincial elewction the Liberals get inb again because if the PC's get in they,don't have to honour that 1 billion dolarr commitment to LRT.

 

It also appears thatr the KLRT will be going to the Airport & Trim road?

As long as the funding commitments are firm and hopefully they remain in power, Stage 2 will start directly after Stage 1. They are also funding the extensions to the airport and Trim Road which I think is a good idea building the Trim extension instead of deferring it at a later time. 

Though, like what "Waiting For 30 Minutes" said, it is difficult to support if most of the demand empties at Place D'Orleans. I have been at Place D'Orleans at 6 AM on the 95 Trim and there was only myself and one other person which we both emptied at Place D'Orleans and the driver continued on to Trim empty. Especially when Trim is serviced from 6 AM to 3 AM weekdays, Saturday, Sunday and holiday service provided by the 122. Along with most of the demand coming from people using the park and ride. 

I think if the Trim Road extension is built, they may simply run only 1 out of 3 trips to Trim like what the 95 currently does and the other 2 out of 3 to Place D'Orleans though I think it could cause confusion between people wanting Place D'Orleans or Trim. I think it is nice they are building it out, but at the same time, I think they are simply going to take the model from the 95 and having 2/3 trips end at Place D'orleans and 1/3 continue to the end of the line. 

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2 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

I really think the interlining issue having to go across town is the most difficult since most of the major operations are based at St. Laurent garage and sometimes Industrial. Merivale and Pinecrest are the peak hour garages which I think could be better utilized to support their own specific geographical areas instead of relying heavily on St. Laurent. 

 

Ummm its actually quite the opposite ... Industrial garage is mostly trippers ( peak period runs ) , while St Laurent Complex does a mix of all areas and almost all east end runs with a few out of Merivale. Merivale garage is the 7day a week West garage and covers the Majority of west end local runs ( 170s,160s,150s,111s,86s, ) as well as the some 90 series bus. Pine is where the majority west end locals and trippers during the week are housed, due to rules set by the city when it opened they can not operate on weekends. 

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2 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

They aren't very likely to use smaller buses since then it gets difficult considering yard space, parts required for repairs and mechanics repairing them if there are any mechanical defects. Along with labour costs which the more buses that have to run, the more operators needed to drive them. 

Lets take an example: The 95 is around 90 minutes long (Trim to Barrhaven Town Centre) and requires 9 articulated buses to maintain 10 minute service. Two way direction would mean 2x the buses to cover both directions with the same frequency with the same level of service. If it is replaced with 40 ft buses instead, they would need at least 2x the buses and 5 minute frequency to replicate which means having 2x the transit operators which gets expensive running the service. 

Now, the 95 is the workhorse which carries around 66,000 on an average weekday and won't run a 40 ft bus unless it is a tripper or peak periods. This is just to demonstration the cost of labour which is often the biggest cost for companies which makes up a lot of some companies budgets. 

When you run shorter buses, they would have to run more frequent buses which in turn requires more people to drive them. The average salary is $60,000/year times lets say 18 operators running with 60 ft buses, it would be 1.08 million dollars annually. That is before including benefits and pension contributions which could increase the total a bit higher. If there are 2x needed for the 40 ft operation, it would easily total 2.16 million dollars in compensation alone to pay those transit operators. 

I can understand the interlining issue which buses should stay in one area. Lets say if the driver does a route in Kanata, they should really give them just one route to do and just do their trips and in the evenings/Sundays, consider interlining with another route which is very common in many systems having one bus do two routes from the same station. I really think the interlining issue having to go across town is the most difficult since most of the major operations are based at St. Laurent garage and sometimes Industrial. Merivale and Pinecrest are the peak hour garages which I think could be better utilized to support their own specific geographical areas instead of relying heavily on St. Laurent. 

The "frequent service network" outside of peak hours I think is feasible which they can design some routes that can run every 15 minutes or better 7 days a week. Which without the passengers feeding from the feeder routes into the main line, it would be difficult which the model I am referring to is the "trunk and feeder system." The trunk would be the Confederation line and the feeder is the routes that feed into the stations. 

 

 

I don't understand why you bring up the 95 as an example. 

I mentioned some local routes. Low density low passenger count routes that in an network must be serviced nonetheless. Those routes are not as long as the 95 the same driver and bus can do the route more often. The days of the 20 km bus route are coming to an end in Ottawa.

Operator costs are an important consideration but if the capital budget is reduced considerably at some point this allow some of that money to be transferred to the operations budget. Technology is also already mature so we could have electric buses which requires a lot less maintenance than a diesel.

Space in the garage will become available. Reading your comment makes me believe that you think that the fleet and operations won't change once the LRT opens. Most of the articulated will be gone, the fleet overall will be reduced. That's already been announced. 

I think it's going to take a while to absorb how much of a change the LRT will bring to Ottawa. 

Most of the 90 series will disappear and the double deckers have started appearing on the 1 on weekends and we will see more of that. 

This will accelerate once stage 2 enters service. 

Perhaps I was not clear that I was thinking of the future. Then again no reason we could not do that sooner. 

If the province wants to improve the environment, they could cough some cash to start the electrification of the bus fleet. That reduces operations costs maintenance etc. 

Lots of changes in the industry. We have to change our ways of thinking. 

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The example is a good one but it's still of. ^

In the case of determining, whether what type of Bus Fleet, you're going need to optimize the costs for the route. You must think about the actual cost number, and it's gross margin (contribution margin).

Now, it all depends on the route, demand and etc.

Here's a cost analysis:
- Variable Labour Cost: $30/hr assumed to have the operator running (6% of his time minimum is a recovery time (estimate)
     - so, to make it simple, we assume the trip is about 56 minutes long
- Fuel Costs: $65/hr fuel for 60 foot, $40/hr fuel for 40 foot, $70/hr fuel for a double decker (i have no idea what the costs are, estimates again)
   - so that's simplified out.
- Fare Collection Costs - can be added (but the cost is irrelevant in this decision, so ignore)

- Repair Costs (you need to find the total repair costs for that type of bus fleet and readjust via proration to the specific case)

- Reduce the costs about the amount of revenue received for all the riders on this one trip

Now, we have to look at the idea of capacity for each bus:

40 foot: 44 seats ; 60 foot: 53 seats; double decker: 78 seats

Now, with that, you're post to do a contribution margin based analysis, looking at the ending profit/loss in each three cases, and you need to know what the number of riders will be for that trip. Then, you can make the right decision. And no, shorter buses don't necessarily mean increased costs, it could be a cost saving in various cases.


Now in general, there's not many routes (1, 12, 123, 94) that need Artics (after LRT) that would need them, we can survive without them
 

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3 hours ago, transpoticket said:

I am so excited for Confederation Line. 

What, if any, do you think potential downfalls may be? 

 

When the first stage is opened (Blair to Tunney's Pasture), some will have to take the train the entire line to get to their final destination. One example is lets say if someone is going to the college from Place D'Orleans. They would have to take the bus to Blair, hop on the LRT and travel to Tunney's Pasture and then transfer onto another bus to get to the college. Which Stage 2 is going to address that issue. Just have to wait until 2023 once the funding commitments are firm and the first stage is completed in 2018. 

Other than that, I have no complaints about the first stage. Building Stage 1 is better than not addressing the issue of bus congestion and the crumbling bus service model which already reached their limits a long time ago. I think there are a lot more positives than negatives. 

Positives:

  • No need to wait for many buses to go by especially with express buses to get to final destination 
  • Electric trains will be running which is more environmentally friendly than using diesel
  • Less transit operators needed along with buses (a train operator on a 3 car train set can carry up to 600 passengers)
  • Room to expand where needed which means light rail transit won't reach capacity for at least a few decades which signals can be upgraded to run more trains at once (ATC)
  • No need to deal with traffic lights (14 sets in downtown) which often would be difficult to try and maintain traffic flow with buses

Negatives:

  • Very expensive technology which Stage 1 costs 2.1 billion dollars to build 12.5 kilometres. Stage 2 is just over 3 billion dollars, but covers more geography since the foundation has already been established
  • Construction work: It requires to rip up the Transitway along with acquiring the tools to build out the tunnels 
  • Takes many years to build out the rail technology along with required detours if any
  • A lot of thorough testing required to ensure that no issues do occur (with a lot of signals and tracks, one failure can shut down a portion of the line requiring buses to shuttle people like Route 107 and the O-Train Trillium Line during unexpected disruptions)

Everything has positives and negatives. I think the positives completely outweigh the negative especially the cost being the biggest barrier which is why we have Stage 1 (foundation) and Stage 2 (expansion). 

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Where did they move the lay up to?

 

Stage 2 LRT

 

Assuming the funding gets approved and construction goes ahead, yes it;ll be some time before everyone can enjoy the "Full LRT Experience".

 

But as for the Stage 2 Expansion of the Trillium Line I hope they double track the entire system. I'm sorry but ever since they've added those extra by-passing tracks its been nothing but problems. In a given week the system is 'temperately shut down' at least 2 or 3 times(if not more). When the by-pas was only at Carelton they never had the system shut down that many times before what we have now. True it would shut down here and there but nothing like what  we experience now. I'm not sure of the cause of what or why it's being |temperately" suspended so many times, but this just not what they promised.

 

Views/Experience of transfer to a  bus/rail or rail/bus?

 

Since Ottawa is basically now get a "Full Rail" type system, I wouldn't mind hearing from those in the GTA/Montreal;/Calgary/Edmonton/ Vancouver or is it Victoria :unsure: (that has the Sky Train) their experience transfer from a bus(or vice versa) to either a LRT/Subway/or Commuter Rail IE Go Train or the ones in Montreal?

 

Though not Ottawa and the cities might be some what different then Ottawa, more or less its the transfer that would be some what the same experience?

 

Any thoughts?

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2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

Where did they move the lay up to? 

Views/Experience of transfer to a  bus/rail or rail/bus?

Since Ottawa is basically now get a "Full Rail" type system, I wouldn't mind hearing from those in the GTA/Montreal;/Calgary/Edmonton/ Vancouver or is it Victoria :unsure: (that has the Sky Train) their experience transfer from a bus(or vice versa) to either a LRT/Subway/or Commuter Rail IE Go Train or the ones in Montreal

The site of the new Bus loop at Hurdman.  (Bus platform remains the same for now)

 

As for transferring between bus and rail (Gta) 

I use to live in Toronto, in my final year of living in the Gta I was using  both Go and the Ttc to get to my school in downtown Toronto and never saw much of a delay other then the gong show at Union with the mass exit from the old Go concourse.

Other then that should be interesting with transferring between the Lrt at Hurdman & the South Transitway. Hopefully the main T-way rtes are placed near the entrence to the stn and not at the far end !. 

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On 4 juin 2016 at 1:59 AM, CyrusKafaiWu said:

The example is a good one but it's still of. ^

 

In the case of determining, whether what type of Bus Fleet, you're going need to optimize the costs for the route. You must think about the actual cost number, and it's gross margin (contribution margin).

 

Now, it all depends on the route, demand and etc.

Here's a cost analysis:

- Variable Labour Cost: $30/hr assumed to have the operator running (6% of his time minimum is a recovery time (estimate)

     - so, to make it simple, we assume the trip is about 56 minutes long

- Fuel Costs: $65/hr fuel for 60 foot, $40/hr fuel for 40 foot, $70/hr fuel for a double decker (i have no idea what the costs are, estimates again)

   - so that's simplified out.

- Fare Collection Costs - can be added (but the cost is irrelevant in this decision, so ignore)

- Repair Costs (you need to find the total repair costs for that type of bus fleet and readjust via proration to the specific case)

- Reduce the costs about the amount of revenue received for all the riders on this one trip

Now, we have to look at the idea of capacity for each bus:

40 foot: 44 seats ; 60 foot: 53 seats; double decker: 78 seats

Now, with that, you're post to do a contribution margin based analysis, looking at the ending profit/loss in each three cases, and you need to know what the number of riders will be for that trip. Then, you can make the right decision. And no, shorter buses don't necessarily mean increased costs, it could be a cost saving in various cases.

 

 

Now in general, there's not many routes (1, 12, 123, 94) that need Artics (after LRT) that would need them, we can survive without them

 

That analysis has already been made when the city was trying to not accept the hybrids. At the time there were better electric buses available but were smaller than 40'. 

The province passed an Order-in-Council which forced Ottawa and many cities to accept and pay for the Orion VII. 

Years later there are better options and more of them which won't require a "made in Ontario" solution to save jobs. 

You correctly identified the factors in doing the cost analysis. I would add benefits as well. 

What am talking about has been done with diesel buses in BC so we have that info available. Other cities in Europe have done the same with both diesels and electric. So I am not talking about anything new, nothing that OC is not already aware from being a member of CUTA and APTA. 

Because right now, especially with stage 2, the plan will be to eliminate the artics, they cost a lot more money than before and have always been (according to OC anyway ) a maintenance nightmare. The plan is to switch to 40' and perhaps eventually replace the double deckers. 

If we cut the fleet in size, if we keep buying expensive 40' there won't be improvements in the local service outside the core. 

That would diminish the usefulness of the LRT and makes it difficult to justify that expense. 

It has already been announced that in Orléans with the LRT opening at Blair the locals will go there instead of Place d'Orléans, express will disappear and replaced with the equivalent local being more frequent (express routes with no local equivalent will become local rush hour only service). 

I expect the same thing to happen now in Kanata and Barrhaven once stage 2 is finished. 

30 min service outside rush hour won't help more people to use the service yet, new housing development are going up like there's no tomorrow. We need to make sure we can service those residents and hopefully this will encourage them to avoid getting that second car. This is about a good mobility policy but also a good health policy. So yes we need to spend more money on transit. The province really need to step up. 

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2 hours ago, MCIBUS said:

 

 

Views/Experience of transfer to a  bus/rail or rail/bus?

 

Since Ottawa is basically now get a "Full Rail" type system, I wouldn't mind hearing from those in the GTA/Montreal;/Calgary/Edmonton/ Vancouver or is it Victoria :unsure: (that has the Sky Train) their experience transfer from a bus(or vice versa) to either a LRT/Subway/or Commuter Rail IE Go Train or the ones in Montreal?

 

Though not Ottawa and the cities might be some what different then Ottawa, more or less its the transfer that would be some what the same experience?

 

Any thoughts?

I grew up on the south shore of Mtl where the bus system was like the STO of today, that is geared to bring you to either Longueuil Metro station or Downtown Terminal in Mtl in the morning and bring you back on the afternoon. 

I went to a college in northwest Mtl and it was quite the hike. I would take a bus to the metro, transfer at Berri to the orange line where I could go all the way to Côte-Vertu. I quickly found out that getting to Berri was easy, however once the metro was near Plamondon it would often stay in station for 15-20 minutes to rebalance the network. 

Thats when I learned that transfers with a frequent network need not be bad. I change my routine to get off the orange line at Bonaventure and take the Deux-Montagnes commuter train to Vertu station and then walk to my college. 

I saved 40 min each way and because on the train I was going contra-flow I always had several seats to myself whereas I saw the trains in the reverse direction being full. 

Then when I started working in the old port I drove to the park and ride at St-Lambert station and took the bus which goes over the Victoria bridge it dropped me close to my office. 

I learned the hard way about transfer penalties and how with a frequent network they can be diminished. Also I don't always rely on a trip planner. It works sometimes to overshoot your destination if you can get there quickly by backtracking something trip planners usually don't do. 

I am very excited about the confederation line and especially with stage 2. As long as we get a frequent service connecting to and fro the line, I think we will have a great experience. 

My grand-father was a bus driver (even a streetcar motorman and conductor before that) in Mtl and he told me it took about 2 years to fine tune the bus network. 

Also more people started taking transit in Mtl so the expected savings in a reduced bus fleet never materialized. That's a nice problem to have I think. 

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