chimo Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) On 2017-03-20 at 7:25 PM, Centralsmt said: Crossrail is taking 9 years to build, much of it on existing track. What? Most of it is brand new tunnel. And a lot of that 9 years was the Transport and Works act application which is overly long even by European standards. Actual building did not start 9 years ago. Edit: comparing the Confederation Line to Crossrail? Really? Not at all the same type of projects at all. My various comments are all about the fact that the Confederation Line which is really a simple project should not take as much time as complex projects. Crossrail will only reuse existing surface lines at its extremities and even the. Not really in the west. The majority is brand new tunnels and stations. Here in Ottawa a small tunnel and existing stations and road which needs a refit. 15 hours ago, smallspy said: Uhhh.....what? I don't think that you understand how the construction industry works. Lots of companies are making more money that ever before, and seldom with any management fees. Dan Management fees are well documented I recommend OECD publications. But honestly your comment doesn't address at all the point that I am making which is that longer contracts provide more earning opportunities. That too is well document. And unfortunately I know way more than I ever cared for about constructions contracts bid and procurement. Would be happy to focus on my actual work but it now includes that world as well. I am trying hard to dispel a lot of myths around here for I have the hope that together we can demand better transit and infrastructure. Edited March 22, 2017 by chimo Missing comment on Crossrail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, chimo said: Management fees are well documented I recommend OECD publications. But honestly your comment doesn't address at all the point that I am making which is that longer contracts provide more earning opportunities. That too is well document. And unfortunately I know way more than I ever cared for about constructions contracts bid and procurement. Would be happy to focus on my actual work but it now includes that world as well. I am trying hard to dispel a lot of myths around here for I have the hope that together we can demand better transit and infrastructure. Then please, share some of these documents, especially in how they pertain to North American regulations and operating scenarios. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I don't understand something. So what if another city had a project completed in a certain amount of time? I'm sure everything was considered when determining the construction timeline and deadlines, from material acquisition and delivery to soil conditions for tunneling and so forth. This isn't a race... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimo Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 6 hours ago, smallspy said: Then please, share some of these documents, especially in how they pertain to North American regulations and operating scenarios. Dan What did I write that is so controversial? Management fees are now prohibited on public contracts, so you do a run around and make it longer. I have shared before documents regarding the Orion debacle and got attacked. At some point I thought that this is a transit forum and expect participants to know a few things. So not too sure I care to repeat the experience. So what do you want ? University research? WTO rules? What is it that you disagree with? But you don't have to trust me, you can peruse the OECD website and the WTO. It's enlightening. When I have time I'll dig. But perhaps we should not forget that it's not just about business. It's tied to the electoral cycle and that's not good for us citizens. And again why should this very simple project take 4 years for stage 1 and 5 for stage 2 ? Debating rules and regulations about how business adapted to a changing environment doesn't change the fact that there's no justification for the length. I don't begrudge companies making money if that's what you are driving at. But let's not forget we are talking about some of the most experienced companies in the world which have worked on projects of greater complexity. Yet here in Ottawa nope no can do 4 years is best we can. The fact they are making more money than before without mgmt fees makes my point so am truly puzzled at what is it that you are objecting. Do you believe it should take 4 years for stage 1? Crossrail was mentioned by Centralsmt and after I commented I went to their website; over 100 km 40 stations including 10 new ones. The names of the new ones are smack in central London. I objected to the claim the starting work 9 years ago included shovels in th ground but if that's the case that's an average of 11 km per year. In an demanding environment with archeological digs. Can you see why I am not happy with the lack of progress here and why am questioning the choices our politicians made? 4 minutes ago, Waiting for 30 Minutes said: I don't understand something. So what if another city had a project completed in a certain amount of time? I'm sure everything was considered when determining the construction timeline and deadlines, from material acquisition and delivery to soil conditions for tunneling and so forth. This isn't a race... There's been too many cases where governments didn't consider all facts. They are human after all and there are other considerations. So I believe it's legitimate to ask questions. You are right it's not a race. However when simple projects take too much time it gives credence to populist politicians who will say that transit is too costly and complex to do and we should just run some buses. That's how we got O'Brien. Transit share is low in this city and there are many who have a car. if you are a couple in Kanata or Orléans, you probably have a car and for less than 2 bus pass (though not much less) you can have a parking downtown. That's why I am hammering about this project. I don't understand why it was so wrong for me to say we need to get rid of the Orions and wrong for me to question this project. I want better transit and we won't get it with that time scale. It opens the door for the next mayor to cancel stage 2. We desperately need stage 2 as stage 1 is not going to work long term and then we have another Transitway on our hands where in that case it took 25 years to get the passenger numbers back. But by all means let's not criticize the city's management of this important project. It's ok to be happy we are getting it and at the same time keeping our politicians on their toes to ensure we get the best we can. It's not contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 hour ago, chimo said: What did I write that is so controversial? Management fees are now prohibited on public contracts, so you do a run around and make it longer. I have shared before documents regarding the Orion debacle and got attacked. At some point I thought that this is a transit forum and expect participants to know a few things. So not too sure I care to repeat the experience. So what do you want ? University research? WTO rules? What is it that you disagree with? But you don't have to trust me, you can peruse the OECD website and the WTO. It's enlightening. When I have time I'll dig. But perhaps we should not forget that it's not just about business. It's tied to the electoral cycle and that's not good for us citizens. And again why should this very simple project take 4 years for stage 1 and 5 for stage 2 ? Debating rules and regulations about how business adapted to a changing environment doesn't change the fact that there's no justification for the length. I don't begrudge companies making money if that's what you are driving at. But let's not forget we are talking about some of the most experienced companies in the world which have worked on projects of greater complexity. Yet here in Ottawa nope no can do 4 years is best we can. The fact they are making more money than before without mgmt fees makes my point so am truly puzzled at what is it that you are objecting. Do you believe it should take 4 years for stage 1? Crossrail was mentioned by Centralsmt and after I commented I went to their website; over 100 km 40 stations including 10 new ones. The names of the new ones are smack in central London. I objected to the claim the starting work 9 years ago included shovels in th ground but if that's the case that's an average of 11 km per year. In an demanding environment with archeological digs. Can you see why I am not happy with the lack of progress here and why am questioning the choices our politicians made? You have made claims a number of times to various things, and when requested to provide proof, you provide none. What you claim does not back up the experience of many others in the construction industry. You have alluded to reports that back-up your claims - all I am asking is to see copies of those reports. Until then, we have little reason to take what you write at face value. Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCL Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Admitting, I have not visited the Stage 2 LRT web site (http://www.stage2lrt.ca) as regularly as I should be. It's been brought to my attention from another discussion board (SkyscraperPage Forum) that the City has posted display board/PowerPoint presentation slides from recent public open house sessions. Below are links that obtained from the Stage 2 LRT, Resources section of the web page (http://www.stage2lrt.ca/resources/): ****** Presentations: Scott Street Detour between Tunney’s Pasture and Dominion Station Information Session Scott Street Detour between Tunney’s Pasture and Dominion Station – Presentation and Boards – April 4, 2017 Belfast Yard Expansion Information Session (Avenues O and P) Belfast Yard Expansion Information Session – Presentation and Boards- March 30, 2017 Belfast Yard Expansion Information Session – Frequently Asked Questions – March 30, 2017 Woodpark Community Information Session Lincoln Fields Station Improved Alignment (Woodpark Community) – Presentation and Boards – March 27. 2017 Bayshore to Moodie Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Conversion to Light Rail Transit (LRT) Environmental Assessment – Public Consultation Bayshore Station to Moodie Drive LRT Extension – Presentation – March 22, 2017 Bayshore Station to Moodie Drive LRT Extension -Boards – March 22, 2017 Kanata Light Rail Transit planning and Environmental Assessment Study – Boards – March 22, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsbuspage Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 geoOttawa (maps.ottawa.ca/geoottawa) now shows the proposed track layout of the O-Train Confederation and Trillium Lines out to 2023 (except for the recently announced extension from Bayshore to Moodie). It also shows crossovers, sidings and storage tracks, whether the stations will have island or side platforms, and the track layout at the Belfast Yard. To view the plans, click on "More Layers" in the top right corner of the screen and check the "Rail Implementation Office" box. To see the station layouts for the Trillium Line, click here. The Confederation Line is double-tracked for its entire length. Crossovers are located just west of Trim Road, just west of Place d'Orleans Station, just west of Jeanne d'Arc Boulevard, just east of Blair Road (with centre storage track), just west of Blair Station, between St. Laurent Station and Belfast Road (access to Belfast Yard), west of Belfast Road (access to Belfast Yard), west of Riverside Drive (with siding), just north of uOttawa Station, between Parliament and Lyon Stations, just east of Tunney's Pasture Station, just west of Westboro Station, just north of and south of Lincoln Fields Station (see note below), between Queensway and Iris Street, just north of Baseline Station (with multiple storage tracks), and under the Richmond Road overpass. Station Layouts: Trim: Island Platform Place d'Orleans: Island Platform Orleans Boulevard: Island Platform Jeanne d'Arc: Island Platform Montreal: Island Platform Blair: Island Platform Cyrville: Island Platform St. Laurent: Side Platforms Tremblay: Side Platforms Hurdman: Side Platforms Lees: Side Platforms uOttawa: Side Platforms Rideau: Side Platforms Parliament: Side Platforms Lyon: Side Platforms Pimisi: Island Platform Bayview: Side Platforms Tunney's Pasture: Side Platforms Westboro: Side Platforms Dominion: Side Platforms Cleary: Side Platforms New Orchard: Island Platform Lincoln Fields: Three tracks, two island platforms. It looks as if the two tracks on the west will be for outbound trains, with the centre track being used for Bayshore trains and the outer track for Baseline, while the track on the east will be for inbound trains. Baseline Branch: Iris: Side Platforms Baseline: Island Platform with small storage yard Bayshore Branch: Queensview: Island Platform Pinecrest: Island Platform Bayshore: Side Platforms Moodie: Not depicted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't Baseline Sation suppose to be underground under that New Trades Building at Algonquin College? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elidezpablo Posted April 6, 2017 Report Share Posted April 6, 2017 The existing tunnel is underneath the courtyard on the west side of the Algonquin Centre for Construction Excellence, east of the current station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 Can't find it anywhere, but why is Trim Station not built into the park and ride? 8 hours ago, tomsbuspage said: geoOttawa (maps.ottawa.ca/geoottawa) now shows the proposed track layout of the O-Train Confederation and Trillium Lines out to 2023 (except for the recently announced extension from Bayshore to Moodie). It also shows crossovers, sidings and storage tracks, whether the stations will have island or side platforms, and the track layout at the Belfast Yard. To view the plans, click on "More Layers" in the top right corner of the screen and check the "Rail Implementation Office" box. To see the station layouts for the Trillium Line, click here. The Confederation Line is double-tracked for its entire length. Crossovers are located just west of Trim Road, just west of Place d'Orleans Station, just west of Jeanne d'Arc Boulevard, just east of Blair Road (with centre storage track), just west of Blair Station, between St. Laurent Station and Belfast Road (access to Belfast Yard), west of Belfast Road (access to Belfast Yard), west of Riverside Drive (with siding), just north of uOttawa Station, between Parliament and Lyon Stations, just east of Tunney's Pasture Station, just west of Westboro Station, just north of and south of Lincoln Fields Station (see note below), between Queensway and Iris Street, just north of Baseline Station (with multiple storage tracks), and under the Richmond Road overpass. Station Layouts: ...Tunney's Pasture: Side Platforms ... Interesting. Does that mean one platform at Tunney's Pasture would essentially be disused, especially off peak? It'll be a fun game of guess the platform/devinez quel quai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oc4526 Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 So it seems Google Satellite view (for iOS) has some updated Images for the Ottawa area Here's Cyrville Stn If I'm seeing correctly there also seems to be a unloading ramp lead built into the north end of the Lrt yard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 10 hours ago, Oc4526 said: If I'm seeing correctly there also seems to be a unloading ramp lead built into the north end of the Lrt yard Not a loading ramp - that is the pre-built connection to the (not so) future expansion of the yard. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsbuspage Posted April 7, 2017 Report Share Posted April 7, 2017 14 hours ago, Oc4526 said: So it seems Google Satellite view (for iOS) has some updated Images for the Ottawa area According to Google Earth, these images were taken on 09/05/2016--Labour Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Video posted on Mayor Watson's Facebook page, "Ready for Rail." There's a little door chime at the end of the video...perhaps that's what ours will be?? The funniest thing is the URL shown in the video doesn't work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreasv Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 14 hours ago, Waiting for 30 Minutes said: Video posted on Mayor Watson's Facebook page, "Ready for Rail." There's a little door chime at the end of the video...perhaps that's what ours will be?? I like it. It's sure nicer then that high pitched beeping the Trillium Line trains use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 I like the ones on the TTC subway better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anyfong Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 On 4/6/2017 at 9:08 PM, Waiting for 30 Minutes said: Can't find it anywhere, but why is Trim Station not built into the park and ride? Interesting. Does that mean one platform at Tunney's Pasture would essentially be disused, especially off peak? It'll be a fun game of guess the platform/devinez quel quai! Most likely the train would drop off passengers into the westbound platform, go to the turnback siding, then crosses over to the eastbound platform to pick up passengers, much like here in Montreal (we call the turnback siding as arrière-gare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallspy Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 16 hours ago, anyfong said: Most likely the train would drop off passengers into the westbound platform, go to the turnback siding, then crosses over to the eastbound platform to pick up passengers, much like here in Montreal (we call the turnback siding as arrière-gare). There are no tailtracks to speak of at Tunney's Pasture as the busway will continue to be in service upon the opening of the line. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRT_BMT_IND Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 On 4/6/2017 at 9:08 PM, Waiting for 30 Minutes said: Does that mean one platform at Tunney's Pasture would essentially be disused, especially off peak? It'll be a fun game of guess the platform/devinez quel quai! There will probably be some kind of electronic signage that says what platform the next train will leave from. The original section of the Bloor line in Toronto was like this, Keele and Woodbine stations had Solari signs in the mezzanine that said what platform the next train would leave from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 It might be because of Phase 2 of LRT thst the station is set up that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCL Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 On 4/7/2017 at 9:32 PM, Waiting for 30 Minutes said: Video posted on Mayor Watson's Facebook page, "Ready for Rail." There's a little door chime at the end of the video...perhaps that's what ours will be?? Here is a staff report to be discussed next Wednesday on the upcoming promotion/marketing initiatives: http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=6996&doctype=agenda&itemid=360984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTAmissions1 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Here is the tweet confirming that vehicle number 5 for the Confederation line is being docked and on the way back from testing. With marketing to go out on April 19th: Final comments: It will be nice to see it become a reality and not just pictures of the site and work going on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 What just 5? I would figure something like L1-L34? at least the L would stand for LRT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB_1024 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Didn't the mockup have the number 2000 on it? Perhaps the vehicles will be numbered in the 2000s, and vehicle 5 will be 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for 30 Minutes Posted April 14, 2017 Report Share Posted April 14, 2017 4 hours ago, MCIBUS said: What just 5? I would figure something like L1-L34? at least the L would stand for LRT? I'm sure it's meant as the fifth completed vehicle. It's a non-issue, anyway. 3 hours ago, HB_1024 said: Didn't the mockup have the number 2000 on it? Perhaps the vehicles will be numbered in the 2000s, and vehicle 5 will be 2005. Yep, mock-up is 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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