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OC Transpo 2019 40' bus order


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With the closer of Orion Industries in Canada and the issue OC has had with the Hybrids buses, what will OC opt for 40' bus orders?

I know they have a few options?

Novabus?

Though I suspect OC will stay away from them?

Van Hool?

Not sure? But I dought it?

NFI?

Although they no longer make the Invero, they do make one thats simular in design, Excalibur or something like?

Alexander Dnis?

At present they offer the Double Deckers in North America, but I do believe they offer a 40' single Deck bus at least in Europe, not sure if there are any presently running in North America?

I think they have a good chance of getting into the 40' Bus in North America if they wanted to.

But I suspect OC will probably(but not necessarily)turn to NFI since close to half the fleet of OC buses are NFI's Invero's & D60lfs & lfrs.

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Although I haven't been in Ottawa for all that long now, I would think New Flyer had the best shot at it, considering there really are only 2 options. I don't see Van Hool being a possibility, since it's fairly uncommon here in Canada, and is usually seen as a "Premium" product for BRT systems/branding purposes which isn't necessary here. Alexander Dennis only offers the E500 right now, and although they are partnering with NF for a midibus, I doubt OCTranspo would go for any 30 or 35 footers.

That leaves NFI and Nova, and I imagine both would bid and present compelling offers, but I think NFI has the edge for a few reasons. A you mentioned there's fleet, and since parts commonality is important for a transit operator, the exisitng fleet of 300+ D60LF( R)s and less so the Inveros would weight heavily on that. New Flyer also has a presence in Arnprior, which could factor in as well. NFI could offer either the new Xcelsior (XD40) or the D40LFR, depending on how much the savings is from more commonality with the existing fleet vs. the improved fuel economy of the XD40.

Nova of course is growing across NA, and is looking to pickup slack from Orion, and is used heavily across the river. The TTC recently placed a large order with them, although that also had other factors at play.

In the end, NFI and Nova will be the likely picks unless OCTranspo decides to try something entirely different. The better question is when, with the inveros having a few years left in them and the Orion 6's near end of life it's hard to say exactly when in the next couple of years the decision will be made to purchase more.

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In the end, NFI and Nova will be the likely picks unless OCTranspo decides to try something entirely different. The better question is when, with the inveros having a few years left in them and the Orion 6's near end of life it's hard to say exactly when in the next couple of years the decision will be made to purchase more.

Just wondering, are some Ontario transit agencies not doing mid-life refurbishments anymore, and if so, why? Looking at Missisaugas fleet page as well, there isn't anything from before 2000...

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I don't think OC needs 40' buses at the moment. The E500s are here to replace the VIs are they not? Lately they've been replacing 40' with 60'/dd buses so they have increased the capacity while keeping their fleet size relatively the same. The Inveros shouldn't retire until around 2017 (14 years for OC?) so there's no need to order any 40' at the moment.

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The early D40i's will not remain until 2017, some should be headed out the door within a couple of years.

The breakdown when 6351-6398 arrived was:

2 artics replaced 3 highfloors

For the DDs it is:

1 DD for 2 Orion VI. (Although roughly 15 were retired before the DD's started to arrive.)

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Although I haven't been in Ottawa for all that long now, I would think New Flyer had the best shot at it, considering there really are only 2 options. I don't see Van Hool being a possibility, since it's fairly uncommon here in Canada, and is usually seen as a "Premium" product for BRT systems/branding purposes which isn't necessary here. Alexander Dennis only offers the E500 right now, and although they are partnering with NF for a midibus, I doubt OCTranspo would go for any 30 or 35 footers.

Not necessarily? I know some time ago OC was looking into 30' buses to put on less used routes. As to what ever became of that or if OC is still complamenting that type of bus I'm not sure or even if they'll purchase any that I don't know? As well back in the mid-late 1980's Volvo had won the contract for articulated buses I think 1986 or 1987 not sure which, but anyway shortly aftyer winning the contract they decied to leave the North american Market hence the gave upthe contract and Orion-Ikarus got it. So anything possible?

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I don't think OC needs 40' buses at the moment. The E500s are here to replace the VIs are they not? Lately they've been replacing 40' with 60'/dd buses so they have increased the capacity while keeping their fleet size relatively the same. The Inveros shouldn't retire until around 2017 (14 years for OC?) so there's no need to order any 40' at the moment.

As I mentioned, the biggest question is when. With the DD's taking the place of the VIs, that leaves the 300 Iveros up for replacement in a couple of years time, but that probably depends on the lifespan of the busses. Because of the relative uniqueness of the Invero, it's hard to say exactly how long they'll hold up, but at least 12 years would be expected.

Not necessarily? I know some time ago OC was looking into 30' buses to put on less used routes. As to what ever became of that or if OC is still complamenting that type of bus I'm not sure or even if they'll purchase any that I don't know? As well back in the mid-late 1980's Volvo had won the contract for articulated buses I think 1986 or 1987 not sure which, but anyway shortly aftyer winning the contract they decied to leave the North american Market hence the gave upthe contract and Orion-Ikarus got it. So anything possible?

The biggest savings with a 30 foot bus is a small amount of fuel savings when used on some frequent stop routes. The issue is that they ovbiously carry less people, and once they are up to speed fuel savings are negligible. It doesn't make a lot of sense in Ottawa since there are very few routes where the conditions of frequent stops and lower ridership are both met, and then you have the issue of having to manage anothe rpool of busses. The capital cost of a 40 foot bus isn't that much more than that of a 30 footer, especially over the life of the bus.

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  • 2 weeks later...
The biggest savings with a 30 foot bus is a small amount of fuel savings when used on some frequent stop routes. The issue is that they ovbiously carry less people, and once they are up to speed fuel savings are negligible. It doesn't make a lot of sense in Ottawa since there are very few routes where the conditions of frequent stops and lower ridership are both met, and then you have the issue of having to manage anothe rpool of busses. The capital cost of a 40 foot bus isn't that much more than that of a 30 footer, especially over the life of the bus.

The biggest component of operating cost is labor, i.e. the driver's wage and benefits, which is the same no matter what type of vehicle he drives.

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  • 5 years later...

Just thought I would post this so that people can post in this thread in the future regarding the new Novabuses that OC Transpo will be getting in the near future.

-Charlie

Edit: geez, my head was not on straight when I wrote that.

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:55 PM, Charlie said:

Just thought I would post this so that people can post in this thread in the future regarding the new Novabuses that OC Transpo will be getting in the near future.

-Charlie

Novas?  Has this been confirmed...?

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/26/2018 at 4:50 PM, Bravo Actual said:

Novas will rise again... Wonder if they will share the same fate as OC Transpo's earlier jaunt with them.

I'll be surprised: The first generation of LFS were full of faults there and there (mainly '96-'98s in the Metro Montreal, 2000s were a bit better); so much that virtually every single one of them were now retired! Since 2001, the progress they did makes them forget.

However, the arrival of the Confederation Line will, in my opinion, simply reduce the bus demand, because they won't need them to run through Downtown (so as the core and rush-hour lines). I expect instead that they will retire their first-arrived Inveros before they'll purchase anything new.

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35 minutes ago, sasgrafix said:

I'll be surprised: The first generation of LFS were full of faults there and there (mainly '96-'98s in the Metro Montreal, 2000s were a bit better); so much that virtually every single one of them were now retired! Since 2001, the progress they did makes them forget.

However, the arrival of the Confederation Line will, in my opinion, simply reduce the bus demand, because they won't need them to run through Downtown (so as the core and rush-hour lines). I expect instead that they will retire their first-arrived Inveros before they'll purchase anything new.

There is a confirmed order of 82 Novabus LFS D. The rumour is non recently refurbished inveros will be leaving. And that’s it.

Its starting to look like only 40 buses are going to leave.

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10 minutes ago, CanadaGoose said:

There is a confirmed order of 82 Novabus LFS D. The rumour is non recently refurbished inveros will be leaving. And that’s it.

Its starting to look like only 40 buses are going to leave.

Oh! Then the Wiki page needs an update somehow... And myself a new read: http://novabus.com/nova-bus-announces-important-order-oc-transpo-82-40-foot-transit-buses-delivered-end-2019-ottawa/

And among all the D40i on hand, around how many got already their refresh (if it's not too much asked, unless someone else knows it better)?

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4 hours ago, sasgrafix said:

Oh! Then the Wiki page needs an update somehow... And myself a new read: http://novabus.com/nova-bus-announces-important-order-oc-transpo-82-40-foot-transit-buses-delivered-end-2019-ottawa/

And among all the D40i on hand, around how many got already their refresh (if it's not too much asked, unless someone else knows it better)?

The Invero refurbishment thread is here: 

 

From Enviro_1203's updates, it is around 60 Inveros that have been refurbished (stripped down and installation of new components) up to today. The total I heard is around 77 that is getting the treatment to hold them together for 18 years. Especially being the backbone of the fleet. 

 

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19 hours ago, sasgrafix said:

However, the arrival of the Confederation Line will, in my opinion, simply reduce the bus demand, because they won't need them to run through Downtown (so as the core and rush-hour lines). I expect instead that they will retire their first-arrived Inveros before they'll purchase anything new.

Well, it will....but it won't.

 

What you'll find is that even though they need fewer buses running into downtown as the trunk has been replaced with the LRT, the outlying routes running to the LRT will get busier and busier - and then they will need more buses for those services. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen, and those buses will be needed.

 

This has certainly been the case in Toronto, and why, even with a fleet of almost 2000 buses and 2 LRT lines under construction, it is projected that they'll need another 200+ buses to service the demand soon after their opening.

 

Dan

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23 hours ago, sasgrafix said:

Oh! Then the Wiki page needs an update somehow... And myself a new read: http://novabus.com/nova-bus-announces-important-order-oc-transpo-82-40-foot-transit-buses-delivered-end-2019-ottawa/

And among all the D40i on hand, around how many got already their refresh (if it's not too much asked, unless someone else knows it better)?

Some of the discussion on this board was that the Orion 7s would be the first to go.

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That was the initial expectation based on the numbers given (~170 vehicles gone at the start of LRT, with 175 NG hybrids). It seems as though that may have changed, perhaps due to the Invero rebuild program not yielding the expected results, the LRT Stage 1 launch delays, LRT Stage 2 detour contingencies, or a combination of the three.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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