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Thanks for the information, Tom.

The link to the bus collection is nice. Usually, pictures of buses snapped by bus fans is some kind of front-and-side angle. The back of buses is much less photographed.

It would be nice if there was a page that did front/side/back of each of the models, so we could see how the "common" details changed over time.

Personally, I'm not up on the TDH-5307 etc designations. Generally, I think of the generations as they were found on the TTC, which around 1980 had buses of most if not all of the different models running around (40' transit, of course). That's why I think in terms of "3500s" or "7700s". (I've lived my life in Toronto, except for two years in Ottawa ['93-'95] when it was rare, but not impossible, to see buses older than 1975.)

When you say "square marker lights", you're referring to the front and back upper side lights, the ones that were on aluminum extrusions, correct? Which also, if I remember waaaaay back, were at one point green, at least on the TTC.

I will be continuing with other details, marker lights being one of them.

What young Toronto New Look fans may not realize is that the fleet of New Looks running around Toronto in the 2000's was pretty homogeneous. As far as I can tell, pretty much all New Looks that were delivered in the new paint scheme (8520-up) were all pretty much identical, at least to me. The most exciting difference I found was that the fleet number in the interior above the windshield was black on some 8800s. Anyway, almost all of the rebuilt buses that lasted into the 2000s were from this cohort, so were all alike except for idiosyncracies due to their rebuilds. Also, the earlier buses changed more frequently, so that there were lots say of only forty or fifty buses that were different (e.g. 8320-8369 with the Otaco seats).

There are likely some Toronto-specific details, such as the switch from standee to non-standee, that won't be "standard" for the model. It would be interesting to distinguish "standard" from "Toronto-specific" changes.

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Glad to help, Ed! My memory reaches back to about 1980 and is mostly about Ottawa, though I am interested in anything to do with Fishbowls! :)

The Fishbowl generations to which I refer are based on the production lists at http://omot.org/roster/GMList/index.html and http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/builders/gmddlist.html. Also, the TTC roster on the CPTDB wiki provides the model designations for the different series of buses the TTC ordered over the years.

The TTC began ordering their Fishbowls without standee windows starting in 1965 to make room for the illuminated ad racks inside the buses. However, other cities such as Ottawa and Montreal were able to order the illuminated racks and standee windows, so there may have been other factors at work in the TTC's specs as well.

As for the marker lights, and you are correct about the lights being the ones with the aluminum extrusions, there is a photo on www.busdrawings.com of Grey Coach 1884 with the green marker lights at the front of the bus. This appears to be a TTC specification, as most other transit systems used orange lights, though St. Louis had white lights on the front corners. However, I have seen photos of Quebec City, Ottawa and Kitchener Old Looks with green marker lights as well.

Never a dull moment in transit history! ^_^

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Here are two more photo sets from November 7th and 8th 2011. With 2281 I did another poser in front of the corresponding address on Lawrence Ave. 2281 in front of 2281 Lawrence Ave. On Nov 8th, someone took a photo of the side destination sign of 2265 and uploaded it to Facebook asking about the bus. These photos are from that same day.

2281 11/07/2011

8381512954_5e7c750077_n.jpg

2265 11/08/2011

8380454237_8cfc9f996a_n.jpg

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PCCs can get away with it, people love streetcars. You can't do the same thing with buses, it doesn't matter what historical presence they had in this city, I doubt you can do it. They have no A/C, and have stairs, yes same situation with the PCCs, but they are looked at differently. TTC will probably treat them like the Peter Witts, rarely gets used, and booked through charters only. As much as I love GMs, I'm surprised TTC is keeping two and not one. I would've thought they would keep one and any other GM bus used as parts.

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2252 and 2444 are the preserved units. They currently reside in davenport.

Thats good to hear. I figured they would keep 2444, the last time I worked on it I noticed it had quite a bit more structural rehab done than most of the other GM's that went through the LEP.

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Keeping the mto sticker current is a little more labour intensive.

However, sitting indoors not racking up mileage, the mechanical and structural deterioration is almost negligable.

If they were deemed as fit going into storage, then realistically they should only need inspecting to be re certified. Maybe ossified and cracked air bellows, but that's more or less it.

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PCCs can get away with it, people love streetcars. You can't do the same thing with buses, it doesn't matter what historical presence they had in this city, I doubt you can do it. They have no A/C, and have stairs, yes same situation with the PCCs, but they are looked at differently. TTC will probably treat them like the Peter Witts, rarely gets used, and booked through charters only. As much as I love GMs, I'm surprised TTC is keeping two and not one. I would've thought they would keep one and any other GM bus used as parts.

Looks like they will be for movie shoots, charters, public displays, parades , special events only.

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Wow that's so cool that there was a GO bus at dock at the same time! I'm glad to see that the Irish finally got their 'bowl, I'm sure they'll take good care of her!

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