Do you want High Speed Rail in California?

[tramrunner]

If yes, you must see this link

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2228/p/salsa/web/tellafriend/public/?tell_a_friend_KEY=10236

and do everything, as directed there!

Thanks for your support!

[Ramirez]

As much I would like to support the CHSR project, im going to pass.

Why?

-The first segment to be built will be from nowhere to nowhere (Construction must start by the end of the year if they don't want to lose federal funds)

-The first segment won't even be operational (No Trains running)

-The amount of cost has ridiculously rised too much

-Poor planing/leadership

-The route of the line is a complete joke (too many unnecessary turns and stops + cutting important stops, like Orange County)

-Too much money has been lost just by studying nothing worthwhile

-The amount of time to fully open the line (2033 or something)

-Taxpayer money getting involved? Nah I'd rather perfer that money go to the failing education system in California rather than wasting more it on worthless studies about the right of way

-Time of travel has increased. Congratulations, you're providing the same service Amtrak does

There are more reasons, but those are some reasons why...

[Ramirez]

I apologize if I came off antagonistic

[jfs1988]

Would be great, but that money should probably go to fixing our roads. I am spending too much on car repairs lately. It could also go to public transit.

[38 Highland Creek]

As much I would like to support the CHSR project, im going to pass.

Why?

-The first segment to be built will be from nowhere to nowhere (Construction must start by the end of the year if they don't want to lose federal funds)

-The first segment won't even be operational (No Trains running)

-The amount of cost has ridiculously rised too much

-Poor planing/leadership

-The route of the line is a complete joke (too many unnecessary turns and stops + cutting important stops, like Orange County)

-Too much money has been lost just by studying nothing worthwhile

-The amount of time to fully open the line (2033 or something)

-Taxpayer money getting involved? Nah I'd rather perfer that money go to the failing education system in California rather than wasting more it on worthless studies about the right of way

-Time of travel has increased. Congratulations, you're providing the same service Amtrak does

There are more reasons, but those are some reasons why...

Plus you'll miss out on the scenes California has to offer for the tourist. For commuting, it's not a bad thing.

[Shakey077]

The money would be better spent on numerous other issues California is facing. Education funding, law enforcement, public safety, local public transit projects, road and bridge repair and replacement. Way to many needed items that are being short changed to waste our money on this right now.

[bzcat]

You have been reading too much anti-train propaganda

As much I would like to support the CHSR project, im going to pass.

Why?

-The first segment to be built will be from nowhere to nowhere (Construction must start by the end of the year if they don't want to lose federal funds)

That's how you build HSR... start in the middle of no where. France didn't start building TGV in Paris. They started in the wheat field outside Lyon. Japan didn't start building their bullet train in Tokyo. They started in the rice paddy in the shadow of Mt Fuji.

-The first segment won't even be operational (No Trains running)

What do you mean by first segment? Operable segment or construction segments? The first operable segment is from Bakersfield to Fresno. But it will be constructed in smaller pieces so of course you would not run trains as soon as the tracks are laid down in any section. Having pre-defined operable segments that are different than construction segments is standard practice in building transit. I don't think this is the problem unless you are just trying to imagine this being a problem.

-The amount of cost has ridiculously rised too much

The current estimated cost is in line with the per mile cost in Taiwan and Spain, two most recently completely HSR system if you factor in inflation.

-Poor planing/leadership

It's a political project with many detractors. You have to appease the NIMBY just as well as boosters

-The route of the line is a complete joke (too many unnecessary turns and stops + cutting important stops, like Orange County)

:angry:

Orange County is not cut. The LA to Anaheim segment will utilize Metrolink right of way. It was stupid to waste money on a dedicated right of way between LA and Anaheim anyway so the new plan is much smarter. We will also get electrification of Metrolink out of this so I don't see what is you beef. The number of stops is a red herring drummed up people trying to stop this project and they don't know what they are talking about.

First, number of stations is completely irrelevant to service. You can have express or limited stop trains.

Second, since HSR is a long term project that will serve us 100 years from now, you have to plan for stations in areas that may not need it now (but you can bypass so what's the problem?).

And third, the line has to serve all of California. This is a political project so you can't just boot the rural area out of the picture.

-Too much money has been lost just by studying nothing worthwhile

This is how I can tell you really haven't been paying any attention to CAHSR.

-The amount of time to fully open the line (2033 or something)

And so?

It's taken us 25 years and the Purple Line subway still haven't fully opened.

The SF to LA portion will take about 15 years to construct. Service could begin earlier than that if electrification of Metrolink and Caltrain moves forward faster. The full system including LA to SD won't be completely for 20 years but when was the last time we constructed any transportation system in California in 2 or 3 years? This complain doesn't even make any sense.

-Taxpayer money getting involved? Nah I'd rather perfer that money go to the failing education system in California rather than wasting more it on worthless studies about the right of way

Public funds is the only way the finance something like this. Why is tax payer money ok to buy buses but not ok to build rail? The money is set aside specifically for HSR so it's not like it can be used for schools willy nelly. The schools in California are short of money because our stupid property tax that are frozen in time due to Prop-13. It's not going to be fixed until we repeal Prop-13.

-Time of travel has increased. Congratulations, you're providing the same service Amtrak does

:angry:

I'm shocked that someone on a transit message board will spew this kind of nonsense. I would expect this level of drivel from some rightwing political website.

There are more reasons, but those are some reasons why...

All the reason you cited are either false or irrelevant. Seriously, CA HSR is one of the most essential project in California to ensure mobility into the future. I think you really need to educate yourself on the facts of the project rather than just going off on these false talking points being perpetrated by the foes of HSR (which by the way are almost all funded by oil companies).

[tramrunner]

I have a friend in California who works as a shuttle driver, and in fact is a rail and transit guru. And he told me, that most of the people who work in transit companies as managers, and planners must be elimintated together with their positions. Only two to three of them must be left..... He told me also that it would be smart to run railbuses along the route of Coast Starlight, two to three times a day....

But no one will listen to him.

[pfsullivan1056]

You have been reading too much anti-train propaganda

this is a different poster who thinks the same...

That's how you build HSR... start in the middle of no where. France didn't start building TGV in Paris. They started in the wheat field outside Lyon. Japan didn't start building their bullet train in Tokyo. They started in the rice paddy in the shadow of Mt Fuji.

Lyon, France is a somewhere. I didn't expect the first segment to necessasarily be meaningful to me, but it should have solved a gap in current California rail coverage - the Bakersfield- Los Angeles gap, for example, which can be solved in one of two ways - force UP/BNSF to allow CHSR to use the Tehachepi pass routing (even if on a seperate line...) or build from Bakersfield south to the Antelope Valley (where you can get a Metrolink...) Either alternative would be building from somewhere to somewhere... Either alternative would also have the added benefit of generating significant operating revenue as soon as the segment opened to passenger traffic, which the current first segment won't, even if you count it as Fresno to Bakersfield, since that segment duplicates a current Amtrak California segment - people (at least, nobody I know) aren't going to get off a San Joaquin and board a different train, to get to Bakerfield (from Fresno) about 20 minutes faster. (estimate...)

construction segments? The first operable segment is from Bakersfield to Fresno. But it will be constructed in smaller pieces so of course you would not run trains as soon as the tracks are laid down in any section. Having pre-defined operable segments that are different than construction segments is standard practice in building transit. I don't think this is the problem unless you are just trying to imagine this being a problem

The current estimated cost is in line with the per mile cost in Taiwan and Spain, two most recently completely HSR system if you factor in inflation.

It's a political project with many detractors. You have to appease the NIMBY just as well as boosters.

Has anyone on the HSR project ever heard of "Eminent Domaign"? ;-)

:angry:

Orange County is not cut. The LA to Anaheim segment will utilize Metrolink right of way. It was stupid to waste money on a dedicated right of way between LA and Anaheim anyway so the new plan is much smarter. We will also get electrification of Metrolink out of this so I don't see what is you beef. The number of stops is a red herring drummed up people trying to stop this project and they don't know what they are talking about.

First, number of stations is completely irrelevant to service. You can have express or limited stop trains.

Second, since HSR is a long term project that will serve us 100 years from now, you have to plan for stations in areas that may not need it now (but you can bypass so what's the problem?).

And third, the line has to serve all of California. This is a political project so you can't just boot the rural area out of the picture.

Metrolink (and, indeed the Surfliner, which uses the same tracks) work fine the way they are, from outside LAUS (Los Angeles Union Station) to Anaheim: what is needed is to re-cofigure LAUS to a more thru-station type of operation, instead of being a terminal, which it was built as... Construction is under way, but has been very slow due to lack of funds. South of Anaheim the main problem (which the Coaster is working on...) is the single track nature of the line.

Why would you want to electrify Metrolink? The diesels run quite well, and you don't have people electrocuting themselves on a third rail (or the expense of upkeep on an overhead)... Electrifying only one segment of Metrolink (LAUS to Anaheim, or south) would cause Metrolink to have to run both diesels AND electric locomotives, with the electrics being reserved only for the electrified portion: as it is now, if a Metrolink diesel loco has a mechanical problem, they just throw another loco on (from any yard) until they reach a yard - any yard

This is how I can tell you really haven't been paying any attention to CAHSR.

And so?

It's taken us 25 years and the Purple Line subway still haven't fully opened.

The SF to LA portion will take about 15 years to construct. Service could begin earlier than that if electrification of Metrolink and Caltrain moves forward faster. The full system including LA to SD won't be completely for 20 years but when was the last time we constructed any transportation system in California in 2 or 3 years? This complain doesn't even make any sense.

Public funds are the only way to finance something like this. Why is tax payer money ok to buy buses but not ok to build rail? The money is set aside specifically for HSR so it's not like it can be used for schools willy nelly. The schools in California are short of money because our stupid property tax that are frozen in time due to Prop-13. It's not going to be fixed until we repeal Prop-13.

I agree that public funding is the correct way to build this: the problem is that the HSR project has thrown money away on studies that proved nothing, and came up with a plan that is poor to unfeasable. (at least to this California taxpayer...)

I agree that Prop 13 needs repealing: (I'd repeal en toto...) to give an example, my house is assessed at 185k, because I bought 25 years ago: my neighbor, who has a smaller house, is paying tax on an assessed value of 450k, because he bought near the top of the housing bubble. - but that's probably outside the topic of this board.

:angry:

nsit message board will spew this kind of nonsense. I would expect this level of drivel from some rightwing political website.

I, personally am quite left-wing, but like Senator William Proxmire, I don't like to see my money wasted!

All the reason you cited are either false or irrelevant. Seriously, CA HSR is one of the most essential project in California to ensure mobility into the future. I think you really need to educate yourself on the facts of the project rather than just going off on these false talking points being perpetrated by the foes of HSR (which by the way are almost all funded by oil companies).

I'm not paid by the oil companies (or employed by them [or anyone else, ATM...]) – I live in the Bay Area and want HSR from here to LAUS/San Diego as much as anyone, but the way that the HSR board went about it, one would think there's no one with even a railfan's knowledge of how a railroad is run on the controlling board/committee.

[C40LFRZeke]

I think turning the Surfliner into HSR(Though I'm sure it's probably not possible) would have been a good opener for HSR. I think the problem is that A) we don't have the money, and thus B ) the scope of the project was just too large. Putting HSR on a proven route like the Surfliner would not only be cheaper but also be a good demonstrator for HSR in California. After all, the surfliner is Amtrak's 3rd busiest with only Amtrak's two North East corridor routes(Regional and Acela) beating it.

[dowlingm]

Metrolink would have the option of ordering some ALP45DPs to avoid issues of locos being on/off wire during progressive electrification. I imagine a lot of people are keeping track of NJT's progress... and AMT's (lack of)